Instead of a prenup I think the Catholics negotiated an annullment.

I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

(02-14-2013 08:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

But the C7's claim is they aren't "leaving" anything. How can you on the one hand claim you aren't leaving, but then when it suits you say that you are? WVU isn't trying to make any claim to any assets, and paid 20 million to get away from the Big East. The C7 is trying to take the name and assets and yet isn't a party to the deal that they signed under the name they want to keep?

(02-14-2013 08:37 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

But the C7's claim is they aren't "leaving" anything. How can you on the one hand claim you aren't leaving, but then when it suits you say that you are? WVU isn't trying to make any claim to any assets, and paid 20 million to get away from the Big East. The C7 is trying to take the name and assets and yet isn't a party to the deal that they signed under the name they want to keep?

That is essentially what I said, or meant to say. I think the FB schools have the upper hand in negotiating. The C7 may be throwing everything out there to try and mitigate that advantage.

(02-14-2013 01:48 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:37 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

But the C7's claim is they aren't "leaving" anything. How can you on the one hand claim you aren't leaving, but then when it suits you say that you are? WVU isn't trying to make any claim to any assets, and paid 20 million to get away from the Big East. The C7 is trying to take the name and assets and yet isn't a party to the deal that they signed under the name they want to keep?

That is essentially what I said, or meant to say. I think the FB schools have the upper hand in negotiating. The C7 may be throwing everything out there to try and mitigate that advantage.

Ahh ok that makes more sense now.

(02-14-2013 01:52 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 01:48 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:37 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

But the C7's claim is they aren't "leaving" anything. How can you on the one hand claim you aren't leaving, but then when it suits you say that you are? WVU isn't trying to make any claim to any assets, and paid 20 million to get away from the Big East. The C7 is trying to take the name and assets and yet isn't a party to the deal that they signed under the name they want to keep?

That is essentially what I said, or meant to say. I think the FB schools have the upper hand in negotiating. The C7 may be throwing everything out there to try and mitigate that advantage.

Ahh ok that makes more sense now.

This was to a large extent my fault--I ran with the idea that ESPN had a right-of-first-refusal, and read into that an obligation to keep the packages the same. In JerseyGuy's comment section, he says that the old contract just gives the Big East the obligation to show ESPN the offer and give them the opportunity to match, the Big East could take either offer.

So even if the C-7 is bound by that, it's not the handcuffs I was yelling about since this weekend. We show ESPN the Fox offer, and say "Yeah, pretty sweet, we're signing it."

It's legal hair-splitting but Lord we love to split hairs.

Based on media accounts since I've not seen nor read the actual Big East agreement....

The departing group has the right to LEAVE the conference and have the assets split. Once you declare you are exercising the option you aren't the Big East any more.

BUT you have the right to force the splitting of the assets.

The assets would be the conference office (lease or ownership), the monies due the league, the name and logos (intellectual property), and other contracts with offset for the liabilities.

The TV deal is an asset. However that contract expires at some point between May 1, 2013 and July 1, 2013 (don't know the particulars but normally TV deals expire in that window).

So that gives two arguments why it doesn't apply to the C7.
1. The contract expires before they leave so it is not an asset to be divided and their impending departure means they are not a part of the contract to replace it.
2. Because they are leaving the conference they are not bound by the conference's deal. The name issue is independent of that because while the name is arguably an asset to be divided, even if they obtain the name they are not the currently existing legal entity Big East because they are leaving.

(02-14-2013 03:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 01:52 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 01:48 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:37 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 08:32 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't think the divorce analogy applies. It comes down to one question - are the C7 or the FB schools leaving? I just don't see how the group that left can be held to the details of the existing contract any more than WVU can. I'm sure this will be part of the settlement.

It would take more than name changes. The pre-nup may allow the C7 to keep the BE name. Even so, the remaining FB schools will be bound by the existing contract, regardless of their conference name. It is possible the FB schools and the C7 both form new leagues and one of them could be called the Big East. That would seem to be inviting law suits and cost millions in exit fees and NCAA credits.

I'm sure there are provisions in the contract about dropping sports. If the FB schools "leave" the BE essentially drops football. Some of the C7 do play football. I don't think ESPN has any interest in showing a Georgetown vs Villanova football game.

But the C7's claim is they aren't "leaving" anything. How can you on the one hand claim you aren't leaving, but then when it suits you say that you are? WVU isn't trying to make any claim to any assets, and paid 20 million to get away from the Big East. The C7 is trying to take the name and assets and yet isn't a party to the deal that they signed under the name they want to keep?

That is essentially what I said, or meant to say. I think the FB schools have the upper hand in negotiating. The C7 may be throwing everything out there to try and mitigate that advantage.

Ahh ok that makes more sense now.

This was to a large extent my fault--I ran with the idea that ESPN had a right-of-first-refusal, and read into that an obligation to keep the packages the same. In JerseyGuy's comment section, he says that the old contract just gives the Big East the obligation to show ESPN the offer and give them the opportunity to match, the Big East could take either offer.

So even if the C-7 is bound by that, it's not the handcuffs I was yelling about since this weekend. We show ESPN the Fox offer, and say "Yeah, pretty sweet, we're signing it."

Here's the thing from JerseyGuy's story:
Or they could do what Aresco is doing and make the best of a bad situation. By linking with NBC–presumably that will be wrapped up in a few weeks—the Big East can move on. ESPN still could make a counter offer, but unless it can match all of the promotions and time slots that NBC seems willing to give, the Big East will be part of the NBC network by the Ides of March.

To me, this would be much more tough for the C7. It'd be easier to see ESPN able to match the promotions and time slots that fox is willing to give- than to see ESPN with NBC and the NBE(especially with football). We're talking probably 4-6 games a week(2-3 weeknight, 2-3 weekend). Maybe the only poison pill they could put in is saying that they must have a Saturday night game of the week on the Fox channel. It'd be hard for ESPN to match that with their new primetime series of games they've been showing.

(02-15-2013 03:13 AM)stever20 Wrote:  To me, this would be much more tough for the C7. It'd be easier to see ESPN able to match the promotions and time slots that fox is willing to give- than to see ESPN with NBC and the NBE(especially with football). We're talking probably 4-6 games a week(2-3 weeknight, 2-3 weekend). Maybe the only poison pill they could put in is saying that they must have a Saturday night game of the week on the Fox channel. It'd be hard for ESPN to match that with their new primetime series of games they've been showing.

So if ESPN matches the money and the timeslots, what exactly is the problem?

I also figure that FoxSports1 is going to be heavier on NBE than you think from the last Saturday of college football regular season through the Big East Tournament. They've got MLB, college football, NASCAR and UFC, and college basketball. So from Dec 1 or so through Opening DAy they have NASCAR, UFC and college basketball. So I figure most or all of the games on FoxSports1--3 on Saturday afternoons, 3 on Sunday afternoons, and 6 during the week. What else have they got for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurdsday night?