(02-14-2013 07:16 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2013 10:55 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Why is it over? I think there's a fair amount of unanswered questions to be dealt with. There appeared to be a pattern of this kind of behavoir...why didn't any athletes come forward prior to this? What steps will the university take to ensure a culture of compliance with it's own rules re player/coach relationships? How was a coach able to drive a team van while intoxicated with no reprecussions? How does something like that occur with the University hierarchy being unaware of it...if in fact they were unaware of it.

To just say "eh...dude's gone, let's move on" is inviting more problems because you're ignorig the culture that allowed this crap to occur and go on unchecked.

It's over because the guy was fired. EZ appears to be interested in salacious details and, for reasons Karl states, UT will not be releasing those nor should they. The press will continue to try to get that info but what happened is over and it ended when Hadsell resigned. And the quote is simply "Dude's gone, move on".

Those that are waiting for the salacious details should just go pick up a copy of 50 Shades of Grey and a bottle of Jergens for the time being.

(02-14-2013 07:16 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2013 10:55 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Why is it over? I think there's a fair amount of unanswered questions to be dealt with. There appeared to be a pattern of this kind of behavoir...why didn't any athletes come forward prior to this? What steps will the university take to ensure a culture of compliance with it's own rules re player/coach relationships? How was a coach able to drive a team van while intoxicated with no reprecussions? How does something like that occur with the University hierarchy being unaware of it...if in fact they were unaware of it.

To just say "eh...dude's gone, let's move on" is inviting more problems because you're ignorig the culture that allowed this crap to occur and go on unchecked.

It's over because the guy was fired. EZ appears to be interested in salacious details and, for reasons Karl states, UT will not be releasing those nor should they. The press will continue to try to get that info but what happened is over and it ended when Hadsell resigned. And the quote is simply "Dude's gone, move on".

I have no doubt there will be (and should be) internal investigations and policy review. If athletes aren't trained on this stuff they need to be-this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has happened and every school should have something inplace.

Sure...and if anyone had asked you a month ago if these issues were occuring you would have said "I'm sure they aren't".

This is a taxpayer funded institution that screwed up...you had a guy engaging in what appears to be a years long pattern of misconduct. The public trust has been violated...the University needs to be forthcoming with more information...not about the salacious details of inappropriate texts or other conduct, but how in the hell this guy was allowed to act this way without being checked. They also need to outline what additional steps they plan to take to insure taht this issue doesn't occur again because...obvioulsy...the steps they were taking prior to today didn't work too well.

(02-14-2013 11:24 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 07:16 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2013 10:55 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Why is it over? I think there's a fair amount of unanswered questions to be dealt with. There appeared to be a pattern of this kind of behavoir...why didn't any athletes come forward prior to this? What steps will the university take to ensure a culture of compliance with it's own rules re player/coach relationships? How was a coach able to drive a team van while intoxicated with no reprecussions? How does something like that occur with the University hierarchy being unaware of it...if in fact they were unaware of it.

To just say "eh...dude's gone, let's move on" is inviting more problems because you're ignorig the culture that allowed this crap to occur and go on unchecked.

It's over because the guy was fired. EZ appears to be interested in salacious details and, for reasons Karl states, UT will not be releasing those nor should they. The press will continue to try to get that info but what happened is over and it ended when Hadsell resigned. And the quote is simply "Dude's gone, move on".

I have no doubt there will be (and should be) internal investigations and policy review. If athletes aren't trained on this stuff they need to be-this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has happened and every school should have something inplace.

Sure...and if anyone had asked you a month ago if these issues were occuring you would have said "I'm sure they aren't".

This is a taxpayer funded institution that screwed up...you had a guy engaging in what appears to be a years long pattern of misconduct. The public trust has been violated...the University needs to be forthcoming with more information.

We're talking about adults here, aren't we?

(02-14-2013 11:24 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 07:16 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2013 10:55 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Why is it over? I think there's a fair amount of unanswered questions to be dealt with. There appeared to be a pattern of this kind of behavoir...why didn't any athletes come forward prior to this? What steps will the university take to ensure a culture of compliance with it's own rules re player/coach relationships? How was a coach able to drive a team van while intoxicated with no reprecussions? How does something like that occur with the University hierarchy being unaware of it...if in fact they were unaware of it.

To just say "eh...dude's gone, let's move on" is inviting more problems because you're ignorig the culture that allowed this crap to occur and go on unchecked.

It's over because the guy was fired. EZ appears to be interested in salacious details and, for reasons Karl states, UT will not be releasing those nor should they. The press will continue to try to get that info but what happened is over and it ended when Hadsell resigned. And the quote is simply "Dude's gone, move on".

I have no doubt there will be (and should be) internal investigations and policy review. If athletes aren't trained on this stuff they need to be-this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has happened and every school should have something inplace.

Sure...and if anyone had asked you a month ago if these issues were occuring you would have said "I'm sure they aren't".

This is a taxpayer funded institution that screwed up...you had a guy engaging in what appears to be a years long pattern of misconduct. The public trust has been violated...the University needs to be forthcoming with more information...not about the salacious details of inappropriate texts or other conduct, but how in the hell this guy was allowed to act this way without being checked. They also need to outline what additional steps they plan to take to insure taht this issue doesn't occur again because...obvioulsy...the steps they were taking prior to today didn't work too well.

Your moral outrage has been duly noted and I must say that it is somewhat at odds with your carefully crafted image as a poster always there with a quick, witty, slightly irreverent and often barbed retort. I am not sure how you feel the institution screwed up. The institution has defined rules as to what constitute improper faculty-student interactions and relationships and has a mechanism in place through which violations can be reported, investigated and dealt with. The system worked exactly as it is supposed to ---when a student came forward with a complaint and proof of improper actions on the part of the coach, an investigation was held and that coach is no longer employed by the University---and that is more than you can say about Kennedy or Clinton who both kept their jobs despite improper sex acts with young female interns----end of story.

It is naive to believe that it is that it is possible to prevent all future improper, immoral or illegal acts on a campus or in society in general. If it was possible to prevent all such actions, then the US would not currently have it prisons filled with twice the number of prisoners (percentage wise) as the rest of the world. The problem is that you can not legislate morality or integrity, or personal responsibility or good judgement; you can only punish those responsible for certain situations that result after the fact when these traits are ignored.

A previous poster made the observation that these e-mail exchanges sounded like two 17 year olds which IMO was right on the mark. The problem arose because the coach was supposed to be the "adult in the room" who insures such situations do not arise and certain boundaries are not crossed and he failed miserably to meet those responsibilities.

Moral outrage...moi? Hardly...I understand that mistakes happen and people do things that they shouldn't...I've done a number of things I shouldn't have done. The point I'm trying to make is that people shouldn't be so quick to just say "we're done here" or to put their faith in the people who's job it is to oversee this stuff to take corrective steps when they allowed it to occur....or to be more fair, were unaware that it occured. They need to be very public in outlining what steps ar e in place beyond a rule book or a code of conduct to prevent this kind of thing. They also need to be very public in outlining any addditional steps they need to take to prevent it.

I've haven't delved into the texts too much, but I would agree that he sounded like a 17 year old. OK...how does a guy with the mentality of a teenager get to a position of authority...are there any steps you're going to add in the hiring process to weed that kind of character out beforehand.

Ultimately...the coach is responsible for his own behavoir but the AD and the University Administration needs to spell out what they intend to do to keep the next incident from occuring or getting that far. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. I'm not talking about an extended period of slf flagellation or an extended mea culpa. Just a very public accounting of where they feel the breakdowns occured and what they feel thay can do to keep the situation from recoccuring escalating.

(02-14-2013 01:40 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Moral outrage...moi? Hardly...I understand that mistakes happen and people do things that they shouldn't...I've done a number of things I shouldn't have done. The point I'm trying to make is that people shouldn't be so quick to just say "we're done here" or to put their faith in the people who's job it is to oversee this stuff to take corrective steps when they allowed it to occur....or to be more fair, were unaware that it occured. They need to be very public in outlining what steps ar e in place beyond a rule book or a code of conduct to prevent this kind of thing. They also need to be very public in outlining any addditional steps they need to take to prevent it.

I've haven't delved into the texts too much, but I would agree that he sounded like a 17 year old. OK...how does a guy with the mentality of a teenager get to a position of authority...are there any steps you're going to add in the hiring process to weed that kind of character out beforehand.

Ultimately...the coach is responsible for his own behavoir but the AD and the University Administration needs to spell out what they intend to do to keep the next incident from occuring or getting that far. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. I'm not talking about an extended period of slf flagellation or an extended mea culpa. Just a very public accounting of where they feel the breakdowns occured and what they feel thay can do to keep the situation from recoccuring escalating.

Reading through all the texts that were made available through a FIA request, it is obvious to me that a LOT of information was made available, some information was lost because the victim deleted it, names were redacted. So far, it appears ONE complaint was lodged, investigated, and seemed to lead nowhere until Emma stepped forward with text evidence. From that point on it appears the actions of the university were swift and decisive. Yes, we certainly want to see that this doesn't happen again. Who wouldn't? What school wouldn't? How is it in the university's interests to gloss over any of this, to act indifferent to it? Good heavens, it's still playing out in the media. Everything doesn't happen all at once.

(02-14-2013 01:40 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Moral outrage...moi? Hardly...

That's exactly what it is.

Quote: They need to be very public in outlining what steps ar e in place beyond a rule book or a code of conduct to prevent this kind of thing. They also need to be very public in outlining any addditional steps they need to take to prevent it.

Oh, more rules. That's great.

Now, weren't these adults involved here? In legal activities?

My mind is boggled when trying to come up with a way that the University could have prevented it. I have to assume that the posters themselves don't believe what they are saying and are only enjoying jabbing barbs into UT. There was a poster on the Toledo board recently that was adamant that this is a farce and did not happen because he had two daughters that ran under Coach Hadsell and they never saw or heard any of it. Now, with all that information in those articles, I'm personally guessing that at least most of it was actually going on. My point is that if some runners on the actual team never saw or heard about any of it, how is the AD, Associate AD, HR, etc. to know about any of it if it is not brought to them? What would you do differently to prevent this from happening? Would you institute a semi-annual review process with every athlete and the AD where the AD questions them about anything they see going on in the program that violates University policy? Does BG do this? Do other universities do this? If not, why should Toledo be expected to have been doing something to that extent? Those are real questions to the posters in here...what is your solution?

Are the taxpayers in Ohio are up in arms over the misdeeds of the UT cross country coach? I can picture them now picketing outside O'Brien's office chanting "we want answers!"

(02-14-2013 12:50 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 11:24 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 07:16 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-13-2013 10:55 PM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  Why is it over? I think there's a fair amount of unanswered questions to be dealt with. There appeared to be a pattern of this kind of behavoir...why didn't any athletes come forward prior to this? What steps will the university take to ensure a culture of compliance with it's own rules re player/coach relationships? How was a coach able to drive a team van while intoxicated with no reprecussions? How does something like that occur with the University hierarchy being unaware of it...if in fact they were unaware of it.

To just say "eh...dude's gone, let's move on" is inviting more problems because you're ignorig the culture that allowed this crap to occur and go on unchecked.

It's over because the guy was fired. EZ appears to be interested in salacious details and, for reasons Karl states, UT will not be releasing those nor should they. The press will continue to try to get that info but what happened is over and it ended when Hadsell resigned. And the quote is simply "Dude's gone, move on".

I have no doubt there will be (and should be) internal investigations and policy review. If athletes aren't trained on this stuff they need to be-this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has happened and every school should have something inplace.

Sure...and if anyone had asked you a month ago if these issues were occuring you would have said "I'm sure they aren't".

This is a taxpayer funded institution that screwed up...you had a guy engaging in what appears to be a years long pattern of misconduct. The public trust has been violated...the University needs to be forthcoming with more information...not about the salacious details of inappropriate texts or other conduct, but how in the hell this guy was allowed to act this way without being checked. They also need to outline what additional steps they plan to take to insure taht this issue doesn't occur again because...obvioulsy...the steps they were taking prior to today didn't work too well.

Your moral outrage has been duly noted and I must say that it is somewhat at odds with your carefully crafted image as a poster always there with a quick, witty, slightly irreverent and often barbed retort. I am not sure how you feel the institution screwed up. The institution has defined rules as to what constitute improper faculty-student interactions and relationships and has a mechanism in place through which violations can be reported, investigated and dealt with. The system worked exactly as it is supposed to ---when a student came forward with a complaint and proof of improper actions on the part of the coach, an investigation was held and that coach is no longer employed by the University---and that is more than you can say about Kennedy or Clinton who both kept their jobs despite improper sex acts with young female interns----end of story.

It is naive to believe that it is that it is possible to prevent all future improper, immoral or illegal acts on a campus or in society in general. If it was possible to prevent all such actions, then the US would not currently have it prisons filled with twice the number of prisoners (percentage wise) as the rest of the world. The problem is that you can not legislate morality or integrity, or personal responsibility or good judgement; you can only punish those responsible for certain situations that result after the fact when these traits are ignored.

A previous poster made the observation that these e-mail exchanges sounded like two 17 year olds which IMO was right on the mark. The problem arose because the coach was supposed to be the "adult in the room" who insures such situations do not arise and certain boundaries are not crossed and he failed miserably to meet those responsibilities.

Man, point shaving, past violations, and now this? Toledo is making Marshall look like BYU. LOL!

Seriously, sad to see this happen to anyone.

Well...at least he didn't do any "Twilight" texts.....

If he would've thrown out an "OMG...team Jacob" That would've made a public stoning almost mandatory.

(02-15-2013 08:26 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Man, point shaving, past violations, and now this? Toledo is making Marshall look like BYU. LOL!

Seriously, sad to see this happen to anyone.

What 'past violations' are you referring to?

If he means NCAA vviolations he's talking about the illegal benefits given a Kkenyan hurdler in 1976. That's the only NCAA one ever. If he refers to violations of common decency and coaching expertise I'm thinking Gene Cross.

(02-15-2013 02:19 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  If he means NCAA vviolations he's talking about the illegal benefits given a Kkenyan hurdler in 1976. That's the only NCAA one ever. If he refers to violations of common decency and coaching expertise I'm thinking Gene Cross.

I think he's more likely referring to the track shorts you wore back in school.

(02-15-2013 04:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2013 02:19 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  If he means NCAA vviolations he's talking about the illegal benefits given a Kkenyan hurdler in 1976. That's the only NCAA one ever. If he refers to violations of common decency and coaching expertise I'm thinking Gene Cross.

I think he's more likely referring to the track shorts you wore back in school.

Hey, if I wore the below the knee hoops things they wear today I would STILL have violated all common decency.

(02-15-2013 02:19 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  violations of common decency and coaching expertise I'm thinking Gene Cross.

(02-15-2013 08:24 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-15-2013 04:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-15-2013 02:19 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  If he means NCAA vviolations he's talking about the illegal benefits given a Kkenyan hurdler in 1976. That's the only NCAA one ever. If he refers to violations of common decency and coaching expertise I'm thinking Gene Cross.

I think he's more likely referring to the track shorts you wore back in school.

Hey, if I wore the below the knee hoops things they wear today I would STILL have violated all common decency.

Glad to hear they finally dropped. Congratulations!

New article on Deadspin was just posted.

Good read.

Sext-Happy Former Toledo Running Coach Denies Sex Harassment, Other Claims; Former Runners Say He’s Lying