http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

This is nothing that anyone here (that isn't a UNC fan) didn't already suspect...

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

Then we could just have them play State Pen for the last game of the year

(02-08-2013 11:52 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

Then we could just have them play State Pen for the last game of the year

Yep...the "Penalty Bowl". Instead of the refs wearing stripes, they could make the players dress out in striped attire...

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

Good to see some Carolina grads acknowledge the obvious truths.

If just athletes were steering each other to easy pass classes, that's one thing. If advisors were doing it, that's pretty bad, although to be fair with the high numbers of African-Americans among the football and basketball programs (which I suspect was disproportionate to the university population at large), if there was a presumption by advisors of potential interest in that area of study, there could have been at least some "innocent" steering of students toward that area. Or is that too naive?

(02-08-2013 12:06 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  If just athletes were steering each other to easy pass classes, that's one thing. If advisors were doing it, that's pretty bad, although to be fair with the high numbers of African-Americans among the football and basketball programs (which I suspect was disproportionate to the university population at large), if there was a presumption by advisors of potential interest in that area of study, there could have been at least some "innocent" steering of students toward that area. Or is that too naive?

If only the African-American athletes were getting these breaks, then that is a whole new and very big can of worms... Every person who failed one of these classes now might have a legal case against the university. It might look a lot like reverse descrimination. Opinions???

Every big-time football and hoops program (and many that aren't big time) steers athletes into the easiest-to-pass classes that the school offers. Many of those schools create large easy-to-pass classes with athletes in mind.

So the problem here is not that UNC did that, the problem is that they went farther than that and had phony classes that never met or perhaps were total joke classes like "History of Basketball" where all you had to do to pass the final is know who invented the game and how many players each team has on the court at one time.

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

My money is on the NCAA not doing a damn thing (or very little) about it.

(02-08-2013 12:12 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 12:06 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  If just athletes were steering each other to easy pass classes, that's one thing. If advisors were doing it, that's pretty bad, although to be fair with the high numbers of African-Americans among the football and basketball programs (which I suspect was disproportionate to the university population at large), if there was a presumption by advisors of potential interest in that area of study, there could have been at least some "innocent" steering of students toward that area. Or is that too naive?

If only the African-American athletes were getting these breaks, then that is a whole new and very big can of worms... Every person who failed one of these classes now might have a legal case against the university. It might look a lot like reverse descrimination. Opinions???

I think that's a bigger slap to the face of African Americans personally.

(02-08-2013 02:15 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 12:12 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 12:06 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  If just athletes were steering each other to easy pass classes, that's one thing. If advisors were doing it, that's pretty bad, although to be fair with the high numbers of African-Americans among the football and basketball programs (which I suspect was disproportionate to the university population at large), if there was a presumption by advisors of potential interest in that area of study, there could have been at least some "innocent" steering of students toward that area. Or is that too naive?

If only the African-American athletes were getting these breaks, then that is a whole new and very big can of worms... Every person who failed one of these classes now might have a legal case against the university. It might look a lot like reverse descrimination. Opinions???

I think that's a bigger slap to the face of African Americans personally.

I totally agree with you. Lots of hard working students out there who don't play sports.

I understand that what is done here is a bit of a mockery to the education that is Tar Heel Education, but I don't see where what is done here is exactly wrong. Embarrassing? indeed Wrong...I don't know

1. I know when I went to school there were core classes I had to take and then other classes I had to take, I could ask my adviser what they had heard about this class or that, this teacher or that and if I had heard bad things or that it was harder, and I was daunted by a class I would go with the grade. Because that is what I needed to do to graduate.

2. There are many....many ....many degrees out there that are .... not the most academically responsible but they still exist and no one questions them.

3. When a kid is playing basketball or football at UNC or any other college for that matter and clearly wouldn't have had the grades, nor test scores to get in....is there really any difference to this? Just another accommodation.

4. For a lot of these kids that are at that level especially UNC Basketball or Football, they aren't trying to get a degree in academia they are trying to get a "degree" to play professional sports. Most of these kids think they are going to be one of the few. So if that is what they are there for, and the University knows this, and the student knows this, why not cater to that student?

I am in no way a UNC fan, I'm not trying to back them, it would make me laugh so hard to see sanctions levied on them. Once you cast those stones these officials better start looking at all major colleges that are bringing these athletes in. The problem isn't that the school is making easy classes for them. The problem is the school is marring academic principles to win in sports by putting these students in position to go to a college that if they were in legit classes, would have a extremely tough time passing.

I would wager that there is a huge pressure from high up in every institution to make sure that these kids GPA's look the part. Advisors, teachers and well everyone receive I am sure huge heat to insure "academic" success of these students. After all these athletes are huge ambassadors for the school and its also a black eye to have these kids repeatedly fail and get knocked off the team.

Maybe I'm wrong here, or misunderstanding the problem.... but this seems like people acting like they are shocked at something everyone knows happens.

I think the issue here with why its wrong is three fold.

1) The advisers role is not to schedule classes for kids or pick their major...its to help them with their coursework...tutor, be kind of a 1 on 1 to review coursework with these kids. Julius Peppers adviser, who turned into his agent after college, actually admitted to going to a professor and asking for Peppers grade to be changed. That's outside of the role of the adviser.

2) If a syllabus is approved, the course is supposed to be taught that way...UNC is saying they didnt know these courses weren't being taught properly...and we still don't have a reason as to why they weren't being taught properly.

3) Writing a paper (with a tutor mind you) doesn't equal course credit. That's just plain fraud and UNC knows this and UNC's athletic dept knew this. Its one thing to make sure you have class times that fit the schedule (like no night courses), quite another to never actually meet and instead go work out and practice, while OTHER STUDENT ATHLETES AT OTHER SCHOOLS HAVE TO SIT IN CLASS.

That's a major advantage that UNC employed, apparently in almost every sport, and apparently with its BEST athletes.

Make no mistake about it...UNC had a system in place. It knew if an athlete needed an A or B to stay eligible and it utilized these majors and Indy classes in order for them to attain them. Not just an easy Geography class...hell Peppers actually got an F in Geography....

Bottom line is this...Peppers would have FLUNKED OUT of any other school but UNC....now what does that say about UNC.

(02-08-2013 11:54 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:52 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

Then we could just have them play State Pen for the last game of the year

Yep...the "Penalty Bowl". Instead of the refs wearing stripes, they could make the players dress out in striped attire...

All orange vs black/white stripes

(02-08-2013 11:54 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:52 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

Then we could just have them play State Pen for the last game of the year

Yep...the "Penalty Bowl". Instead of the refs wearing stripes, they could make the players dress out in striped attire...

Yeah! One could wear black & white and the other could wear white & black.

I would be embarrassed as a tarheel fan to know that my school had to cheat to have as lousy a football program as Carolina has had for the last 15 years. But I still think the NCAA will let them weasel out.

(02-08-2013 12:12 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 12:06 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  If just athletes were steering each other to easy pass classes, that's one thing. If advisors were doing it, that's pretty bad, although to be fair with the high numbers of African-Americans among the football and basketball programs (which I suspect was disproportionate to the university population at large), if there was a presumption by advisors of potential interest in that area of study, there could have been at least some "innocent" steering of students toward that area. Or is that too naive?

If only the African-American athletes were getting these breaks, then that is a whole new and very big can of worms... Every person who failed one of these classes now might have a legal case against the university. It might look a lot like reverse descrimination. Opinions???

I actually have a friend who's daughter graduated a couple of years ago from UNC-CH. She was an athlete, black, and biology major. He said she took a couple of courses in the AA Studies department. The course work and class schedule for her was normal. He remembers her writing research papers (on her own) and studying for tests. What he noted was that there was a teammate of his daughter that didn't seem up to the task.......but she had a team manager that mirrored that girls courses. He thought it was a little odd that this manager, a white girl had majored in AA Studies (or at least minored in it), took all the same courses as the other player and they graduated together. Of course nothing says you have to be AA to major in AA Studies, (see Dr. Tim Tyson) but he just thought that raised a few red flags.

(02-08-2013 02:10 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:47 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 11:42 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/07/2...ecked.html

Wonder if this scandal would keep away any serious B10 talks.

I wonder if this is going to bring major NCAA sanctions to UNC. They might not see a bowl game for three or four years, if they don't get the death penalty.

My money is on the NCAA not doing a damn thing (or very little) about it.

Unfortunately, your are probably absolutely correct.