(02-02-2013 10:41 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  A friend of mine today reminded me that there are a lot of "undrafted free agents," who anchor big league ball clubs in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. . . . just saying . . . wonder if any of those kind of universities are getting any serious vetting by Aresco & Co.?

As long as S Miss and Tulsa are available I can't imagine we would be looking at any long shots, but who knows--nobody ever would have predicted Tulane after all.

(02-03-2013 12:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 10:41 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  A friend of mine today reminded me that there are a lot of "undrafted free agents," who anchor big league ball clubs in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. . . . just saying . . . wonder if any of those kind of universities are getting any serious vetting by Aresco & Co.?

As long as S Miss and Tulsa are available I can't imagine we would be looking at any long shots, but who knows--nobody ever would have predicted Tulane after all.

Undrafted Free Agents would come from the MAC or Sunbelt or C-USA. The Indy's whom are NMSU and Idaho.

The BE's days of raiding the MWC are over. The shoe is now on the other foot.

(02-03-2013 07:23 PM)jediwarrior Wrote:  

(02-03-2013 12:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 10:41 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  A friend of mine today reminded me that there are a lot of "undrafted free agents," who anchor big league ball clubs in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. . . . just saying . . . wonder if any of those kind of universities are getting any serious vetting by Aresco & Co.?

As long as S Miss and Tulsa are available I can't imagine we would be looking at any long shots, but who knows--nobody ever would have predicted Tulane after all.

Undrafted Free Agents would come from the MAC or Sunbelt or C-USA. The Indy's whom are NMSU and Idaho.

The BE's days of raiding the MWC are over. The shoe is now on the other foot.

Are you saying that the MWC is about to raid the Big East???

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Houston, SMU, and Tulsa will be in the Big East for a long time. Moving to the MWC would be a step down. It ain't gonna happen.

(02-05-2013 11:00 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(02-03-2013 07:23 PM)jediwarrior Wrote:  

(02-03-2013 12:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 10:41 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  A friend of mine today reminded me that there are a lot of "undrafted free agents," who anchor big league ball clubs in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. . . . just saying . . . wonder if any of those kind of universities are getting any serious vetting by Aresco & Co.?

As long as S Miss and Tulsa are available I can't imagine we would be looking at any long shots, but who knows--nobody ever would have predicted Tulane after all.

Undrafted Free Agents would come from the MAC or Sunbelt or C-USA. The Indy's whom are NMSU and Idaho.

The BE's days of raiding the MWC are over. The shoe is now on the other foot.

Are you saying that the MWC is about to raid the Big East???

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Houston, SMU, and Tulsa will be in the Big East for a long time. Moving to the MWC would be a step down. It ain't gonna happen.

It's not going to happen because of geography and inertia, but that doesn't mean the MWC would be a step down.

Not sure if the BE is even around in 18 months. The issue is that I can see no scenario in that which the ACC loses more teams and both the ACC and the nBE survive.

Call me naive, but I don't think the nBE will be around to be able to make the this argument. Everyone, including the TV execs, are waiting on the other shoe to drop as afar as the B1G and SEC go. When it happens, and if you haven't noticed now the national media even thinks so, the ACC will be hurt but still have the access to the far better TV deal.

This allows the old BE to keep the name for basketball and still allows for the ACC to survive and live off the brand equity that name has built.

(02-05-2013 11:16 AM)laxtonto Wrote:  Not sure if the BE is even around in 18 months. The issue is that I can see no scenario in that which the ACC loses more teams and both the ACC and the nBE survive.

Call me naive, but I don't think the nBE will be around to be able to make the this argument. Everyone, including the TV execs, are waiting on the other shoe to drop as afar as the B1G and SEC go. When it happens, and if you haven't noticed now the national media even thinks so, the ACC will be hurt but still have the access to the far better TV deal.

This allows the old BE to keep the name for basketball and still allows for the ACC to survive and live off the brand equity that name has built.

I never understand arguments like this. How can the BE collapse as long as there is CUSA to raid? We've seen from the example of CUSA that a conference will endure endless raiding as long as there is a lesser conference for it to draw from. Even a grouping as nauseating as CUSA in its current incarnation has good prospects for survival. I wish this weren't so... but it is. CUSA will give its teams to the BE and let in DeVry if it has to.

(02-05-2013 11:25 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:16 AM)laxtonto Wrote:  Not sure if the BE is even around in 18 months. The issue is that I can see no scenario in that which the ACC loses more teams and both the ACC and the nBE survive.

Call me naive, but I don't think the nBE will be around to be able to make the this argument. Everyone, including the TV execs, are waiting on the other shoe to drop as afar as the B1G and SEC go. When it happens, and if you haven't noticed now the national media even thinks so, the ACC will be hurt but still have the access to the far better TV deal.

This allows the old BE to keep the name for basketball and still allows for the ACC to survive and live off the brand equity that name has built.

I never understand arguments like this. How can the BE collapse as long as there is CUSA to raid? We've seen from the example of CUSA that a conference will endure endless raiding as long as there is a lesser conference for it to draw from. Even a grouping as nauseating as CUSA in its current incarnation has good prospects for survival. I wish this weren't so... but it is. CUSA will give its teams to the BE and let in DeVry if it has to.

Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. The MW with Houston and SMU would be a better option for those two schools at that point than trying to rebuild the nBE with spare parts from CUSA and MAC. The only two solid prospects are S Miss and Tulsa--the rest would be a significant step down from those two. About the best you could do would be something like

Houston
SMU
S Miss
Tulsa
LaTech
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UTEP
MTSU
UAB
ODU

Rather than joining the above group, I think Houston, SMU, Tulsa, and one other (BYU, S Miss, UTEP, LTech, UTSA) would slide west as a group. That would make a very solid Mountain West 16.

I'm wary of the MWC because of geography, but if it's CUSA or the MWC I think we have to go.

I don't get any joy out of admitting this. So much of USM's history is tied up with CUSA. It's sad to admit that this once proud name has become diluted to the point of meaninglessness.... but I'd be a fool to deny it.

Incidentally, UH is the school I'm most enthusiastic about being in a conference with (other than unreasonable choices like Michigan or LSU). A lot of USM fans would have said ECU until recently, but I think that's changing.

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:25 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:16 AM)laxtonto Wrote:  Not sure if the BE is even around in 18 months. The issue is that I can see no scenario in that which the ACC loses more teams and both the ACC and the nBE survive.

Call me naive, but I don't think the nBE will be around to be able to make the this argument. Everyone, including the TV execs, are waiting on the other shoe to drop as afar as the B1G and SEC go. When it happens, and if you haven't noticed now the national media even thinks so, the ACC will be hurt but still have the access to the far better TV deal.

This allows the old BE to keep the name for basketball and still allows for the ACC to survive and live off the brand equity that name has built.

I never understand arguments like this. How can the BE collapse as long as there is CUSA to raid? We've seen from the example of CUSA that a conference will endure endless raiding as long as there is a lesser conference for it to draw from. Even a grouping as nauseating as CUSA in its current incarnation has good prospects for survival. I wish this weren't so... but it is. CUSA will give its teams to the BE and let in DeVry if it has to.

Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. The MW with Houston and SMU would be a better option for those two schools at that point than trying to rebuild the nBE with spare parts from CUSA and MAC. The only two solid prospects are S Miss and Tulsa--the rest would be a significant step down from those two. About the best you could do would be something like

Houston
SMU
S Miss
Tulsa
LaTech
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UTEP
MTSU
UAB
ODU

Rather than joining the above group, I think Houston, SMU, Tulsa, and one other (BYU, S Miss, UTEP, LTech, UTSA) would slide west as a group. That would make a very solid Mountain West 16.

I agree with almost all of what you said. BYU is not a realistic option for the MWC. There is zero chance they make that move IMO. Other than that, I think you have it nailed.

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

(02-05-2013 11:25 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:16 AM)laxtonto Wrote:  Not sure if the BE is even around in 18 months. The issue is that I can see no scenario in that which the ACC loses more teams and both the ACC and the nBE survive.

Call me naive, but I don't think the nBE will be around to be able to make the this argument. Everyone, including the TV execs, are waiting on the other shoe to drop as afar as the B1G and SEC go. When it happens, and if you haven't noticed now the national media even thinks so, the ACC will be hurt but still have the access to the far better TV deal.

This allows the old BE to keep the name for basketball and still allows for the ACC to survive and live off the brand equity that name has built.

I never understand arguments like this. How can the BE collapse as long as there is CUSA to raid? We've seen from the example of CUSA that a conference will endure endless raiding as long as there is a lesser conference for it to draw from. Even a grouping as nauseating as CUSA in its current incarnation has good prospects for survival. I wish this weren't so... but it is. CUSA will give its teams to the BE and let in DeVry if it has to.

If true conference alignment Armageddon happens, very simply, if there is not enough bodies there for both to be remotely viable. It will be damn hard to get 6+ CUSA schools to be willing to move to completely new conference without a TV deal because of just the BE names, which they may or may not get to keep the rights to.

What happens if the ACC loses:

UVA and GT to the B1G
UNC and Duke to the SEC
FSU, Clemson, Miami, NCST, VT and Louisville (not sure who # 6 would be)

The leaves you 4 teams and the ACC name and the remnants of a TV deal. Syracuse, Wake, Pitt (?) and BC will almost assuredly add Temple, Cinci and UConn to get to 7. That has been the worst unkept secret in the nBE for months. Adds of Memphis, UCF and USF will be pretty self evident to keep the ACC basketball brand (Memphis) somewhat strong and get back into south Florida. That gets you to 10 and cuts the nBE to 4.

Now what? Do you add ECU? Stretch the footprint to Tulane? Even farther west to SMU, UH and Tulsa? Does the ACC TV partners say they will pay more for UH, Tulsa, ECU, and UH in what is be considered more of a basketball league? This is where the issues of travel and academics and conference goals will rear their ugly head and the real cat fights will start.

Do you think that if the nBE is down to 4 or less members that they will be able to pull 6 out of CUSA? The more likely doomsday scenario is the ACC kills the nBE as a football entity and the C7 get the name. The remnants that don't end up in the ACC will probably work with parts of the CUSA to split it into two leagues more geographically aligned with a scheduling alliance, some what like the proposed merger scenarios from yesteryear.

If the ACC goes, there is no way there is enough left over to keep the nBE and the ACC as 2nd tier conferences. There just isn't enough teams. Maybe this happens and the nBE absorbs the ACC schools, but the lack of an existing TV deal, weaker leadership, and a much stronger ACC brand a perception go against that idea.

The BE has been able to raid the CUSA because they always had a stable revenue stream to match with solid programs and academics. The split killed the idea of always having the BE basketball name to fall back on and it looks more and more like everyone that was part of the old BE are gone. It is hard to make the argument that any CUSA team will make the jump when it is more likely that the old CUSA teams that left could be forced to come back into the fold due to lack of options.

(02-05-2013 01:58 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

Depends on who is voting and why. The TV execs might like it, but probably not as much as you think because it does not match the brand of the ACC. UH is valuable because of the market and to some extent football. Try to convince Syracuse, BC and the likes that adding a geographic outlier is important to the ACC, when the underlying culture of the schools still remaining are East Coast Academics that have a basketball first mentality for the most part. The payouts are important, but not to the point of having additions that are true geographic outliers that do not have the same culture or academics.

(02-05-2013 01:58 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

I hope you and Khator are correct. Its not unreasonable. But I see Navy, USF, UConn, Cinci, UCF, Temple, and ECU as 7 easy fits into the current ACC footprint. I simply question if the ACC would reach to include outliers like Houston and SMU. Even Memphis makes more sense geographically than us with Cinci and maybe Louisville in the ACC picture. I would prefer the ACC to the MW option.

(02-05-2013 02:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 01:58 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

I hope you and Khator are correct. Its not unreasonable. But I see Navy, USF, UConn, Cinci, UCF, Temple, and ECU as 7 easy fits into the current ACC footprint. I simply question if the ACC would reach to include outliers like Houston and SMU. Even Memphis makes more sense geographically than us with Cinci and maybe Louisville in the ACC picture. I would prefer the ACC to the MW option.

That is kinda the viewpoint I have as well. I would love to see UH in the ACC, just because I stand a better chance of getting an Academic position at UH than the other ACC schools and I wouldn't have to leave Texas.

The problem is that looking at it, I have a hard time of making a legit well rounded argument to expand past Memphis west for the ACC and still keep the branding that the ACC has developed. That is the value in all of this. The name, the associated perception and the playoff payout (for as long as they keep it)

I think USM would be a good fit for the ACC, but I'm biased.

If USM had its **** together, this would be realistic. We don't, so it's probably not.

(02-05-2013 02:11 PM)laxtonto Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 02:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 01:58 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

I hope you and Khator are correct. Its not unreasonable. But I see Navy, USF, UConn, Cinci, UCF, Temple, and ECU as 7 easy fits into the current ACC footprint. I simply question if the ACC would reach to include outliers like Houston and SMU. Even Memphis makes more sense geographically than us with Cinci and maybe Louisville in the ACC picture. I would prefer the ACC to the MW option.

That is kinda the viewpoint I have as well. I would love to see UH in the ACC, just because I stand a better chance of getting an Academic position at UH than the other ACC schools and I wouldn't have to leave Texas.

The problem is that looking at it, I have a hard time of making a legit well rounded argument to expand past Memphis west for the ACC and still keep the branding that the ACC has developed. That is the value in all of this. The name, the associated perception and the playoff payout (for as long as they keep it)

It actually makes some sense if the ACC was bold and took Houston, SMU, Tulane, and S Miss. S Miss would tie the conference together. Essentially, it would be a reversed " L " shaped coastal conference with a large heavily populated footprint and excellent southern recruiting grounds in Texas, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi. The conference would set up well for either north/south or east/west divisions.

(02-05-2013 04:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 02:11 PM)laxtonto Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 02:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 01:58 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 11:38 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  . . . Depends on how bad the ACC gets hit. If the nBE loses 6 to 8 teams to the ACC, the remaining two are likely to be Houston and SMU as they are the farthest from the traditional ACC footprint. . . .

ESPN itself recently named Houston as the 2nd most valuable collegiate property still out there behind Boise State . . . do you really think if 6 to 8 Big East teams are cherry picked by the ACC that ESPN won't insure that Houston will be in that group with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Navy, etc. . . frankly, I believe this is still Dr. Khator's (who was provost at USF for a decade) endgame . . .

I hope you and Khator are correct. Its not unreasonable. But I see Navy, USF, UConn, Cinci, UCF, Temple, and ECU as 7 easy fits into the current ACC footprint. I simply question if the ACC would reach to include outliers like Houston and SMU. Even Memphis makes more sense geographically than us with Cinci and maybe Louisville in the ACC picture. I would prefer the ACC to the MW option.

That is kinda the viewpoint I have as well. I would love to see UH in the ACC, just because I stand a better chance of getting an Academic position at UH than the other ACC schools and I wouldn't have to leave Texas.

The problem is that looking at it, I have a hard time of making a legit well rounded argument to expand past Memphis west for the ACC and still keep the branding that the ACC has developed. That is the value in all of this. The name, the associated perception and the playoff payout (for as long as they keep it)

It actually makes some sense if the ACC was bold and took Houston, SMU, Tulane, and S Miss. S Miss would tie the conference together. Essentially, it would be a reversed " L " shaped coastal conference with a large heavily populated footprint and excellent southern recruiting grounds.

That's basically what I was thinking. USM and Houston could both help keep that AQ bid, too, if we can return from oblivion. I'm afraid that people are too down on USM right now for it to happen... but if the stars align, it could happen. Having a decent basketball team probably helps. We'll see how long The Man lets that go on.

(02-05-2013 11:00 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(02-03-2013 07:23 PM)jediwarrior Wrote:  

(02-03-2013 12:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 10:41 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  A friend of mine today reminded me that there are a lot of "undrafted free agents," who anchor big league ball clubs in the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. . . . just saying . . . wonder if any of those kind of universities are getting any serious vetting by Aresco & Co.?

As long as S Miss and Tulsa are available I can't imagine we would be looking at any long shots, but who knows--nobody ever would have predicted Tulane after all.

Undrafted Free Agents would come from the MAC or Sunbelt or C-USA. The Indy's whom are NMSU and Idaho.

The BE's days of raiding the MWC are over. The shoe is now on the other foot.

Are you saying that the MWC is about to raid the Big East???

I'm sorry to break this to you, but Houston, SMU, and Tulsa will be in the Big East for a long time. Moving to the MWC would be a step down. It ain't gonna happen.

Nope. Not saying the MWC is about to raid the NBE. I'm saying the NBE can no longer raid the MWC. Those days died when Boise and SDSU chose the MWC over the NBE.