This Butler dude makes me laugh.... hahahahaha.... hahahaha.... Go ahead and stay in your A-10.... hahahaha

If they determine it to be the best option, I'm sure they will.

I do look forward to following the programs either from inside or outside to see how they adapt to being in a mid major conference.

(01-22-2013 01:35 PM)Title Wrote:  If they determine it to be the best option, I'm sure they will.

I do look forward to following the programs either from inside or outside to see how they adapt to being in a mid major conference.

I know the president and board of governors of butler are singing a much different tune. It seems to me they are on board with this league. I haven't seen a single thing that would make me think otherwise.

(01-22-2013 01:28 PM)monroedoctrine Wrote:  This Butler dude makes me laugh.... hahahahaha.... hahahaha.... Go ahead and stay in your A-10.... hahahaha

Me too.

(01-22-2013 01:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I know the president and board of governors of butler are singing a much different tune. It seems to me they are on board with this league. I haven't seen a single thing that would make me think otherwise.

Yeah, I don't even know that, so there is 0% chance that you do.

(01-22-2013 01:44 PM)Title Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 01:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I know the president and board of governors of butler are singing a much different tune. It seems to me they are on board with this league. I haven't seen a single thing that would make me think otherwise.

Yeah, I don't even know that, so there is 0% chance that you do.

While that might be true I know that things aren't nearly as bleak as you present them to be.

That Butler dude has a stench of new money. Look at it from Butlers AD's perspective. How long do you feel you will be able to keep Steven's if he is not showcased and paid top dollar. Also think of life after Stevens.

Butler is trying to secure their financial future. Twidling their thumbs in the A-10 will not do that. Temple & Xavier will be gone soon and potentially VCU, St. Louis & Dayton. Anyway you want to slice it the head of the snake will be cut off. I find it laughable you persist to sit on this high horse. Yes it would be great to have you (Actually you are my top choice). This is a one shot deal for Butler to get paid. Who do you think is calling next? Last I check you have no Football team I'm aware of. What basketball centric conference will call your name MVC. You will be better off in the A-10 splitting that chump change.

Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

(01-22-2013 11:41 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 11:29 AM)Title Wrote:  Butler is not going to be "stuck" anywhere. It has the gravitas to consolidate selected schools in the region if it comes to that.

I wasn't even saying that that is the option I'd most prefer. I was simply stating that I wonder what the A-10 is going to do. Of course they are going to do something.

And again, "higher profile" is sort of what I was talking about. Once you get past Marquette and Georgetown (each of whom BU has played in the last couple of years anyway), there's no one in the C7 that would move the needle any more than any of the A-10 schools. ----- That's one thing that I am CERTAIN isn't factoring, "high profile" games are already happening. Who leads the country in wins vs Top 10 teams?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless, I'd hope that things start to become clearer soon. Tangible news of progress seems to be pretty scarce.

I'm going to take a stab at what you're talking about. A new, high-level midwestern league based around Butler, Xavier, Dayton, with SLU, WSU, Creighton as good options, and then filling in from there? That's not a terrible idea as a backup plan if the C-7 are the blinkered idiots that our former football partners swear we are. It was a decent idea when it was called the Midwestern City Conference or Great Midwest. It's a decent idea today, things like NCAA autobids aside.

No, actually you were hinting at the A-10 trying to get Butler to stay. So I'm still curious as to what you're thinking.

I don't think a new league with the best teams is possible outside of the C-7 pulling it together.

Depaul, Providence and Villanova may not be clear At-Large teams but they are equal to the mid of the A-10 today plus they are in larger markets and have a historic fan base from past accomplishments.

But if they C-7 try to prioritize Catholic (Dayton, St. Louis) over better current programs (VCU, Wichita State) they may leave an opening for the A-10 to strike back.

(01-22-2013 11:41 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 11:29 AM)Title Wrote:  Butler is not going to be "stuck" anywhere. It has the gravitas to consolidate selected schools in the region if it comes to that.

I wasn't even saying that that is the option I'd most prefer. I was simply stating that I wonder what the A-10 is going to do. Of course they are going to do something.

And again, "higher profile" is sort of what I was talking about. Once you get past Marquette and Georgetown (each of whom BU has played in the last couple of years anyway), there's no one in the C7 that would move the needle any more than any of the A-10 schools. ----- That's one thing that I am CERTAIN isn't factoring, "high profile" games are already happening. Who leads the country in wins vs Top 10 teams?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless, I'd hope that things start to become clearer soon. Tangible news of progress seems to be pretty scarce.

I'm going to take a stab at what you're talking about. A new, high-level midwestern league based around Butler, Xavier, Dayton, with SLU, WSU, Creighton as good options, and then filling in from there? That's not a terrible idea as a backup plan if the C-7 are the blinkered idiots that our former football partners swear we are. It was a decent idea when it was called the Midwestern City Conference or Great Midwest. It's a decent idea today, things like NCAA autobids aside.

No, actually you were hinting at the A-10 trying to get Butler to stay. So I'm still curious as to what you're thinking.

Do you mean the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (a few incarnations prior to it becoming the Horizon League)?

Even an all-star midwestern city league wouldn't get the kind of money the BigEast's Catholic-7 are reportedly looking at - even if you put all the best non-FB basketball powers in the midwest together in one conference. For example: the best midwestern teams (not already in the C-7) are Creighton, Butler, Xavier & Dayton, StLouis. They are all in states/markets where they are severely overshadowed by major FB-playing programs in the Big10/SEC/ACC. Creighton is overshadowed by Nebraska; Butler by Indiana, Purdue and the ACC's NotreDame; Xavier and Dayton by OhioState, and StLouis by the Big10's Illinois and the SEC's Missouri.

The BigEast's Catholic schools, on the other hand, are the major players in many of their markets - and they are top 10 type markets. Despite some nice population centers for a midwestern conference, it can not claim much of it as a sports fan's first option. Those same schools in a BigEast non-FB alignment however, would have great talent (Creighton, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, Georgetown etc) and great marketsto play in and be broadcast in (NY, Philly, DC, etc) and in many of those markets , the conference would be the number one college sports option.

A midwestern league would be competitive - no doubt about it; it just couldn't match the dollars (not even close).

If Butler stayed in the A-10, I'm afraid they would be the lone remaining basketball power when Temple (already leaving for the BigEast remnant group), Charlotte (already leaving for C-USA 3.0) Xavier, Dayton and StLouis (all likely BigEast C-7 invites) and maybe others all leave. While the current A-10 is probably on-par with the BigEast C-7 in terms of basketball talent right now, it won't be after the best schools consolidate under the BigEast banner.

(01-22-2013 02:55 PM)Title Wrote:  Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

If I posted out of context excuse me. The A-10 will not be able to do a thing. They are locked in their newly signed contract for the forseeable future. I very seriously doubt the remaining schools will divy up to give the an unbalanced share of money so, really their is nothing they can do.

(01-22-2013 11:58 AM)Title Wrote:  If the threshold is programs like St Johns, of course but that's completely beside the point.

My comment was about the A10's response.

The odd direction this thread has taken is really about NJRedMan's distorted view of things. Again this is Joe Lunardi talking about the C7. You can pretty much use that as a proxy of the public's viewpoint.

Your link is an insiders link but I think you are making the same point I am which is why I am saying you go to 12 and you do so with the top teams regardless: VCU, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Wichita State. From their you can add other schools as make sense like St. Joes, Dayton, St Louis, UMass, GW etc.

(01-22-2013 03:06 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 02:55 PM)Title Wrote:  Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

If I posted out of context excuse me. The A-10 will not be able to do a thing. They are locked in their newly signed contract for the forseeable future. I very seriously doubt the remaining schools will divy up to give the an unbalanced share of money so, really their is nothing they can do.

Didn't we see the same comments regarding Boise State and the MWC. Assuming another league will sit back and do nothing unless you have an overwhelming advantage is unwise.

(01-22-2013 03:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:06 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 02:55 PM)Title Wrote:  Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

If I posted out of context excuse me. The A-10 will not be able to do a thing. They are locked in their newly signed contract for the forseeable future. I very seriously doubt the remaining schools will divy up to give the an unbalanced share of money so, really their is nothing they can do.

Didn't we see the same comments regarding Boise State and the MWC. Assuming another league will sit back and do nothing unless you have an overwhelming advantage is unwise.

What do you beleive A-10's play will be. I see at as a no win situation.

(01-22-2013 12:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 11:58 AM)Title Wrote:  If the threshold is programs like St Johns, of course but that's completely beside the point.

My comment was about the A10's response.

The odd direction this thread has taken is really about NJRedMan's distorted view of things. Again this is Joe Lunardi talking about the C7. You can pretty much use that as a proxy of the public's viewpoint.

Lunardi is far from the public's viewpoint (as someone that knows that his St. Joseph's is going to get left behind in a depleted A10). The press on the C7 has actually been largely favorable (and somewhat surprising to me).

Exactly which is why you need to make sure you add enough strong programs that perception doesn't change. Perception doesn't match reality for the C-7 right now but the facts are what Lunardi posted.

If the league adds Dayton and St Louis over VCU and Wichita State because of fit then they risk peception catching up with reality.

(01-22-2013 03:10 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:06 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 02:55 PM)Title Wrote:  Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

If I posted out of context excuse me. The A-10 will not be able to do a thing. They are locked in their newly signed contract for the forseeable future. I very seriously doubt the remaining schools will divy up to give the an unbalanced share of money so, really their is nothing they can do.

Didn't we see the same comments regarding Boise State and the MWC. Assuming another league will sit back and do nothing unless you have an overwhelming advantage is unwise.

What do you beleive A-10's play will be. I see at as a no win situation.

Depends on who you add.... but if you leave VCU and Wichita State in play for the A-10, I expect they will try to take them and lure back Butler saying you don't want to be in a CYO league and doing a Boise type deal.

Especially if you try to give the incoming schools a half share you open the door further.

If the C-7 schools act arrogantly and try to skim the cream with mostly like minded Catholic schools they could mess this up. I am not saying they will and I hope they don't but it certainly is possible to do so.

(01-22-2013 03:14 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:10 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 03:06 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 02:55 PM)Title Wrote:  Wait a second.

This entire thread is an out of context excerpt from another thread.

I said I wonder what the A10 does in response.

The C7 being less relevant than some of you believe is really another thing entirely. I said upfront that it would be my preference to see it through. Its just far less of a no-brainer than you are trying to make it out to be.

If I posted out of context excuse me. The A-10 will not be able to do a thing. They are locked in their newly signed contract for the forseeable future. I very seriously doubt the remaining schools will divy up to give the an unbalanced share of money so, really their is nothing they can do.

Didn't we see the same comments regarding Boise State and the MWC. Assuming another league will sit back and do nothing unless you have an overwhelming advantage is unwise.

What do you beleive A-10's play will be. I see at as a no win situation.

Depends on who you add.... but if you leave VCU and Wichita State in play for the A-10, I expect they will try to take them and lure back Butler saying you don't want to be in a CYO league and doing a Boise type deal.

The money is to great to turn down even at a discount rate (which I hope is not true in the long run). I doubt the other schools will dcrease their share and other tv rights I doubt would offset the difference.

(01-22-2013 03:12 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 12:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 11:58 AM)Title Wrote:  If the threshold is programs like St Johns, of course but that's completely beside the point.

My comment was about the A10's response.

The odd direction this thread has taken is really about NJRedMan's distorted view of things. Again this is Joe Lunardi talking about the C7. You can pretty much use that as a proxy of the public's viewpoint.

Lunardi is far from the public's viewpoint (as someone that knows that his St. Joseph's is going to get left behind in a depleted A10). The press on the C7 has actually been largely favorable (and somewhat surprising to me).

Exactly which is why you need to make sure you add enough strong programs that perception doesn't change. Perception doesn't match reality for the C-7 right now but the facts are what Lunardi posted.

If the league adds Dayton and St Louis over VCU and Wichita State because of fit then they risk peception catching up with reality.

I agree with this to an extent but the Brinks truck will be backed up for the new schools to improve their basketball quality in short order. It's all a long term proposition.

to me, the hope for the A10 would be that ESPN doesn't want to lose Butler, Xavier, VCU, etc. to Fox- and they redo their A10 deal- getting the a10 then to do a Boise type situation to get more of the money to the big hitters. Outside of that, there's nothing the A10 can do.

(01-22-2013 02:59 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  But if they C-7 try to prioritize Catholic (Dayton, St. Louis) over better current programs (VCU, Wichita State) they may leave an opening for the A-10 to strike back.

Picking St Louis over Wichita (or Dayton) isn't CAtholic over public, it's bigger market over smaller market. Picking Dayton over Wichita isn't really Catholic over public either, it's picking consistent success over a flash-in-the-pan. Dayton has 16 NCAA appearances and 14 wins, WSU has 11 and 8. That's a serious gap, and it's not like Wichita blows Dayton away lately, you've each been to the dance once in the last five years and laid an egg when you got there, you both won an NIT. And the five years before that, Dayton's in the NCAA's twice to WSU's one Sweet Sixteen.