From the Post's Lenn Robbins:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/b...weK2jPQK/1

"The dispute over the Big East name has all the earmarks of a one-of-a-kind case like the Indianapolis Colts trademark dispute in the early ’90s,’’ Mimi K. Rupp, a noted trademark attorney with the firm of Kenyon & Kenyon, told The Post."

"The three schools that are staying in the Big East will argue that the trademark registrations and name are no different than any other Big East property, which belongs to the Big East Corporation,” Rupp said. “When the Catholic Seven leave the Big East, the name stays with the corporation."

"The Catholic Seven, on the other hand, will claim that the name belongs to them because they are synonymous with the Big East brand,’’ Rupp said. “Like trademark disputes over rock band names, the Catholic Seven will likely argue that they are like Mick Jagger, who was largely responsible for making the Rolling Stones, the Rolling Stones."

Also mentioned in the article:

"A Post source said though St. Mary’s and Gonzaga are attractive candidates, the travel costs to fly non-revenue teams cross-country will almost surely make adding them prohibitive. The source said Butler, Dayton, George Mason, St. Louis and Xavier are the top five options as the league seeks to transform into an elite, 12-team, hoops conference."

Get it done, get the d@mn name!

Creighton and VCU have to be possibilities too.

George Mason?? Why? If Nova is blocking St. Jose's, why on earth would Georgetown let GMU join?

(12-24-2012 11:00 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  George Mason?? Why? If Nova is blocking St. Jose's, why on earth would Georgetown let GMU join?

Lenn Robbins is a moron.

No one is talking about George Mason. He is the only person to bring them up. The guys who have been covering realignment and have the inside connections have not brought them up. He is just throwing out names he knows.

(12-24-2012 10:00 AM)TheRock Wrote:  From the Post's Lenn Robbins:

"The dispute over the Big East name has all the earmarks of a one-of-a-kind case like the Indianapolis Colts trademark dispute in the early ’90s,’’ Mimi K. Rupp, a noted trademark attorney with the firm of Kenyon & Kenyon, told The Post."

"The three schools that are staying in the Big East will argue that the trademark registrations and name are no different than any other Big East property, which belongs to the Big East Corporation,” Rupp said. “When the Catholic Seven leave the Big East, the name stays with the corporation."

"The Catholic Seven, on the other hand, will claim that the name belongs to them because they are synonymous with the Big East brand,’’ Rupp said. “Like trademark disputes over rock band names, the Catholic Seven will likely argue that they are like Mick Jagger, who was largely responsible for making the Rolling Stones, the Rolling Stones."

Also mentioned in the article:

"A Post source said though St. Mary’s and Gonzaga are attractive candidates, the travel costs to fly non-revenue teams cross-country will almost surely make adding them prohibitive. The source said Butler, Dayton, George Mason, St. Louis and Xavier are the top five options as the league seeks to transform into an elite, 12-team, hoops conference."

Get it done, get the d@mn name!

Gotta link for the article?

Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

(12-24-2012 11:05 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 10:00 AM)TheRock Wrote:  From the Post's Lenn Robbins:

"The dispute over the Big East name has all the earmarks of a one-of-a-kind case like the Indianapolis Colts trademark dispute in the early ’90s,’’ Mimi K. Rupp, a noted trademark attorney with the firm of Kenyon & Kenyon, told The Post."

"The three schools that are staying in the Big East will argue that the trademark registrations and name are no different than any other Big East property, which belongs to the Big East Corporation,” Rupp said. “When the Catholic Seven leave the Big East, the name stays with the corporation."

"The Catholic Seven, on the other hand, will claim that the name belongs to them because they are synonymous with the Big East brand,’’ Rupp said. “Like trademark disputes over rock band names, the Catholic Seven will likely argue that they are like Mick Jagger, who was largely responsible for making the Rolling Stones, the Rolling Stones."

Also mentioned in the article:

"A Post source said though St. Mary’s and Gonzaga are attractive candidates, the travel costs to fly non-revenue teams cross-country will almost surely make adding them prohibitive. The source said Butler, Dayton, George Mason, St. Louis and Xavier are the top five options as the league seeks to transform into an elite, 12-team, hoops conference."

Get it done, get the d@mn name!

Gotta link for the article?

My bad I updated the OP with the link. Thx.

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

Although I basically agree you and I see you're a hoya fan so I get it, but no conference has all top tier teams. And unless we're going to get serious about Gonzaga, then what level of teams are we expecting to add after Butler & Xavier. How many non-fbs, high-major bball teams do people think are out there. Syracuse is not walking through that door, Uconn is not walking through that door, Memphis........Even Butler & VCU are relatively new to the hi-profile scene.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

South Florida poster should know this as well as anybody--there's a perception tipping point where a power-conference drops down a level. In 2003-05, the football Big East added 3 C-USA teams and a FCS upgrade, and stayed a power conference (mostly.) This round, even before losing Louisville and Rutgers, the 5 Big East teams added 1 WAC/MWC powerhouse and 6 lower-FBS teams, and got kicked out of the AQ club.

If we lose the perception in the media of being a power conference--excuse me, I should use the term "elite basketball conference"--then we're not seen by fans and recruits as an elite conference, and then the $$$ won't be there for very long.

If the 7 defecting schools truly have the power to dissolve the conference as has been mentioned in several articles, can’t see any problem with them retaining the Big East name or pretty much whatever else they want to negotiate. What stronger position could they possibly have? Sure that’s not a move they would like to make but an incredible arrow to have in your quiver.

As far as Gonzaga traveling, in a conference with East and West Divisions they would only have to travel to what is really the Midwest. They would only have to travel east for a tournament or possibly for basketball only maybe a couple of games with a team in the other division. Is this a deal breaker, wouldn’t think so.

(12-24-2012 12:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

South Florida poster should know this as well as anybody--there's a perception tipping point where a power-conference drops down a level. In 2003-05, the football Big East added 3 C-USA teams and a FCS upgrade, and stayed a power conference (mostly.) This round, even before losing Louisville and Rutgers, the 5 Big East teams added 1 WAC/MWC powerhouse and 6 lower-FBS teams, and got kicked out of the AQ club.

If we lose the perception in the media of being a power conference--excuse me, I should use the term "elite basketball conference"--then we're not seen by fans and recruits as an elite conference, and then the $$$ won't be there for very long.

Everything you mention is the 800lb gorilla in the room...it's the reason this move is risky so I don't think anyone is down-playing that scenario. But the other-side is that the BE fb brand NEVER had the clout of the BE BBall brand and that's the "rub"...Can the C7+ continue that tradition?

Take Marquette, you would think they were one of the original BE schools from the 80's with the stature they currently hold in this move. But since they joined the league they've produced and became a real force in continuing the BE tradition. That's what needs to happen again.

Btw it's more like a Jersey-born & raised poster, living in S Fla now....

(12-24-2012 12:16 PM)jacka252 Wrote:  If the 7 defecting schools truly have the power to dissolve the conference as has been mentioned in several articles, can’t see any problem with them retaining the Big East name or pretty much whatever else they want to negotiate. What stronger position could they possibly have? Sure that’s not a move they would like to make but an incredible arrow to have in your quiver.

As far as Gonzaga traveling, in a conference with East and West Divisions they would only have to travel to what is really the Midwest. They would only have to travel east for a tournament or possibly for basketball only maybe a couple of games with a team in the other division. Is this a deal breaker, wouldn’t think so.

More sports in this conference than BBall.

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

Although I basically agree you and I see you're a hoya fan so I get it, but no conference has all top tier teams. And unless we're going to get serious about Gonzaga, then what level of teams are we expecting to add after Butler & Xavier. How many non-fbs, high-major bball teams do people think are out there. Syracuse is not walking through that door, Uconn is not walking through that door, Memphis........Even Butler & VCU are relatively new to the hi-profile scene.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond and Wichita St. are all ahead of George Mason. Even if we were to double up on a market then St. Joe's would be a much more attractive option.

I much rather take the chance of a team stepping up when they get that money in a new market than a duplicate one.

(12-24-2012 01:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

Although I basically agree you and I see you're a hoya fan so I get it, but no conference has all top tier teams. And unless we're going to get serious about Gonzaga, then what level of teams are we expecting to add after Butler & Xavier. How many non-fbs, high-major bball teams do people think are out there. Syracuse is not walking through that door, Uconn is not walking through that door, Memphis........Even Butler & VCU are relatively new to the hi-profile scene.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond and Wichita St. are all ahead of George Mason. Even if we were to double up on a market then St. Joe's would be a much more attractive option.

I much rather take the chance of a team stepping up when they get that money in a new market than a duplicate one.

I agree my point really wasn't about GMU...Just saying trying to avoid adding mid-majors at this point is missing the point about the challenge the C7 are taking on even though it's by far the best option now.

(12-24-2012 01:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

Although I basically agree you and I see you're a hoya fan so I get it, but no conference has all top tier teams. And unless we're going to get serious about Gonzaga, then what level of teams are we expecting to add after Butler & Xavier. How many non-fbs, high-major bball teams do people think are out there. Syracuse is not walking through that door, Uconn is not walking through that door, Memphis........Even Butler & VCU are relatively new to the hi-profile scene.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond and Wichita St. are all ahead of George Mason. Even if we were to double up on a market then St. Joe's would be a much more attractive option.

I much rather take the chance of a team stepping up when they get that money in a new market than a duplicate one.

George Mason (MA History, represent!) is pretty much the paradigm case of a flash in the pan Final Four run that isn't reflective of the program's real strength. That's why I bring up VCU's tournament appearances under 3 different coaches in the last 10 years--that means a tournament run isn't lightning in a bottle (it is, but it's like you built a lightning rod and ran a wire into a bottle, or something), that's not the result of one great coach who gets hired away.

(12-24-2012 02:05 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 01:01 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:28 AM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 11:08 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  Okay good, adding teams like GMU is a great way to get labeled a mid major conference.

Although I basically agree you and I see you're a hoya fan so I get it, but no conference has all top tier teams. And unless we're going to get serious about Gonzaga, then what level of teams are we expecting to add after Butler & Xavier. How many non-fbs, high-major bball teams do people think are out there. Syracuse is not walking through that door, Uconn is not walking through that door, Memphis........Even Butler & VCU are relatively new to the hi-profile scene.

No need to keep knocking prospective teams (GMU, Creighton, etc) like C7 fans are all elitist or something. The idea is that these programs will step up when they join us & see the $$.

Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond and Wichita St. are all ahead of George Mason. Even if we were to double up on a market then St. Joe's would be a much more attractive option.

I much rather take the chance of a team stepping up when they get that money in a new market than a duplicate one.

George Mason (MA History, represent!) is pretty much the paradigm case of a flash in the pan Final Four run that isn't reflective of the program's real strength. That's why I bring up VCU's tournament appearances under 3 different coaches in the last 10 years--that means a tournament run isn't lightning in a bottle (it is, but it's like you built a lightning rod and ran a wire into a bottle, or something), that's not the result of one great coach who gets hired away.

I agree, I think you put them in a league with top notch competition they can realistically compete with in athletic budget and support and I think they can thrive. I think we need one eastern team to go with all the midwestern adds. We can't ignore the eastern side in this move. VA is a growing state.

1. All of Mason's success has been under 1 coach (Jim Larranaga) who left when his AD did not commit resources to compensating him in response to Shaka Smart's new contract. Larranaga actually approached Miami about their position when that happened, they did not seek him out. They have never had any relevant success under anyone else in their history.

2. Jim Larranaga had 5 NCAA appearances, the only other appearance in program history was as a 15-seed in 1989. Larranaga advanced in 2 out of those 5 appearances. 2 of the other appearances were as a 14-seed. They were really only nationally-relevant (top 60) in 2006 and 2011 of any of the years they went to the NCAA's. The other 3 years they went to the NCAAs they had double-digit losses.

3. They had widely publicized plans to build a basketball practice facility that they scrapped because the admin thinks it's unnecessary to spend all that money for one program. They practice in an athletic center that is open to all athletics teams as well as students. They also play in an arena that was built in 1985.

4. George Mason's average RPI over the last 10 seasons is 85.6 (per NCAA.org) and they have finished outside the top 100 3 times in that span, 2 of those were following their Final Four:

02-03: 93
03-04: 81
04-05: 154
05-06: 26
06-07: 124
07-08: 63
08-09: 51
09-10: 158
10-11: 24
11-12: 82

5. George Mason does not deliver the Northern Virginia or DC market. Their attendance has steadily decreased almost every year since their Final Four in 2006. Here are the last 10 seasons (per NCAA.org):

02-03: 3,347
03-04: 3,864
04-05: 3,937
05-06: 4,533 (Final Four year)
06-07: 6,834
07-08: 6,494
08-09: 6,295
09-10: 5,837
10-11: 5,896
11-12: 5,161

6. They are in Georgetown's market competing for the same viewers. Georgetown carries the market much more than George Mason which is still viewed as a commuter school in the region and outside of the Final Four bump, has little interest in the community outside George Mason. They never averaged more than 5,000 before the Final Four despite being a large urban school of over 30,000. They have steadily decreased in attendance nearly every year since getting that bump.

(12-26-2012 02:10 PM)VCUfan Wrote:  1. All of Mason's success has been under 1 coach (Jim Larranaga) who left when his AD did not commit resources to compensating him in response to Shaka Smart's new contract. Larranaga actually approached Miami about their position when that happened, they did not seek him out. They have never had any relevant success under anyone else in their history.

2. Jim Larranaga had 5 NCAA appearances, the only other appearance in program history was as a 15-seed in 1989. Larranaga advanced in 2 out of those 5 appearances. 2 of the other appearances were as a 14-seed. They were really only nationally-relevant (top 60) in 2006 and 2011 of any of the years they went to the NCAA's. The other 3 years they went to the NCAAs they had double-digit losses.

3. They had widely publicized plans to build a basketball practice facility that they scrapped because the admin thinks it's unnecessary to spend all that money for one program. They practice in an athletic center that is open to all athletics teams as well as students. They also play in an arena that was built in 1985.

4. George Mason's average RPI over the last 10 seasons is 85.6 (per NCAA.org) and they have finished outside the top 100 3 times in that span, 2 of those were following their Final Four:

02-03: 93
03-04: 81
04-05: 154
05-06: 26
06-07: 124
07-08: 63
08-09: 51
09-10: 158
10-11: 24
11-12: 82

5. George Mason does not deliver the Northern Virginia or DC market. Their attendance has steadily decreased almost every year since their Final Four in 2006. Here are the last 10 seasons (per NCAA.org):

02-03: 3,347
03-04: 3,864
04-05: 3,937
05-06: 4,533 (Final Four year)
06-07: 6,834
07-08: 6,494
08-09: 6,295
09-10: 5,837
10-11: 5,896
11-12: 5,161

6. They are in Georgetown's market competing for the same viewers. Georgetown carries the market much more than George Mason which is still viewed as a commuter school in the region and outside of the Final Four bump, has little interest in the community outside George Mason. They never averaged more than 5,000 before the Final Four despite being a large urban school of over 30,000. They have steadily decreased in attendance nearly every year since getting that bump.

I believe VCU fan just did this to GMU fans...

(12-26-2012 02:31 PM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-26-2012 02:10 PM)VCUfan Wrote:  1. All of Mason's success has been under 1 coach (Jim Larranaga) who left when his AD did not commit resources to compensating him in response to Shaka Smart's new contract. Larranaga actually approached Miami about their position when that happened, they did not seek him out. They have never had any relevant success under anyone else in their history.

2. Jim Larranaga had 5 NCAA appearances, the only other appearance in program history was as a 15-seed in 1989. Larranaga advanced in 2 out of those 5 appearances. 2 of the other appearances were as a 14-seed. They were really only nationally-relevant (top 60) in 2006 and 2011 of any of the years they went to the NCAA's. The other 3 years they went to the NCAAs they had double-digit losses.

3. They had widely publicized plans to build a basketball practice facility that they scrapped because the admin thinks it's unnecessary to spend all that money for one program. They practice in an athletic center that is open to all athletics teams as well as students. They also play in an arena that was built in 1985.

4. George Mason's average RPI over the last 10 seasons is 85.6 (per NCAA.org) and they have finished outside the top 100 3 times in that span, 2 of those were following their Final Four:

02-03: 93
03-04: 81
04-05: 154
05-06: 26
06-07: 124
07-08: 63
08-09: 51
09-10: 158
10-11: 24
11-12: 82

5. George Mason does not deliver the Northern Virginia or DC market. Their attendance has steadily decreased almost every year since their Final Four in 2006. Here are the last 10 seasons (per NCAA.org):

02-03: 3,347
03-04: 3,864
04-05: 3,937
05-06: 4,533 (Final Four year)
06-07: 6,834
07-08: 6,494
08-09: 6,295
09-10: 5,837
10-11: 5,896
11-12: 5,161

6. They are in Georgetown's market competing for the same viewers. Georgetown carries the market much more than George Mason which is still viewed as a commuter school in the region and outside of the Final Four bump, has little interest in the community outside George Mason. They never averaged more than 5,000 before the Final Four despite being a large urban school of over 30,000. They have steadily decreased in attendance nearly every year since getting that bump.

I believe VCU fan just did this to GMU fans...

Why is a Seton Hall fan here talking smack to anyone? Other than its ability to ride the coattails of a successful conference, your program is an absolute joke.

(12-26-2012 02:54 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(12-26-2012 02:31 PM)TheRock Wrote:  

(12-26-2012 02:10 PM)VCUfan Wrote:  1. All of Mason's success has been under 1 coach (Jim Larranaga) who left when his AD did not commit resources to compensating him in response to Shaka Smart's new contract. Larranaga actually approached Miami about their position when that happened, they did not seek him out. They have never had any relevant success under anyone else in their history.

2. Jim Larranaga had 5 NCAA appearances, the only other appearance in program history was as a 15-seed in 1989. Larranaga advanced in 2 out of those 5 appearances. 2 of the other appearances were as a 14-seed. They were really only nationally-relevant (top 60) in 2006 and 2011 of any of the years they went to the NCAA's. The other 3 years they went to the NCAAs they had double-digit losses.

3. They had widely publicized plans to build a basketball practice facility that they scrapped because the admin thinks it's unnecessary to spend all that money for one program. They practice in an athletic center that is open to all athletics teams as well as students. They also play in an arena that was built in 1985.

4. George Mason's average RPI over the last 10 seasons is 85.6 (per NCAA.org) and they have finished outside the top 100 3 times in that span, 2 of those were following their Final Four:

02-03: 93
03-04: 81
04-05: 154
05-06: 26
06-07: 124
07-08: 63
08-09: 51
09-10: 158
10-11: 24
11-12: 82

5. George Mason does not deliver the Northern Virginia or DC market. Their attendance has steadily decreased almost every year since their Final Four in 2006. Here are the last 10 seasons (per NCAA.org):

02-03: 3,347
03-04: 3,864
04-05: 3,937
05-06: 4,533 (Final Four year)
06-07: 6,834
07-08: 6,494
08-09: 6,295
09-10: 5,837
10-11: 5,896
11-12: 5,161

6. They are in Georgetown's market competing for the same viewers. Georgetown carries the market much more than George Mason which is still viewed as a commuter school in the region and outside of the Final Four bump, has little interest in the community outside George Mason. They never averaged more than 5,000 before the Final Four despite being a large urban school of over 30,000. They have steadily decreased in attendance nearly every year since getting that bump.

I believe VCU fan just did this to GMU fans...

Why is a Seton Hall fan here talking smack to anyone? Other than its ability to ride the coattails of a successful conference, your program is an absolute joke.

CSNbbs/ActiveBoards/C7bbs/C7bbsConferenceTalk/C7bbs Conference Talk...I believe I'm in the right place & you?