(12-23-2012 10:28 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:39 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Usually when its all out in the media like the MWC is doing, its a sign of desperation, all the moves have been done very quietly until announced. I'll wait for the official announcements.

CAn you think of a move that was reported this widely (Dodds/Thamel/Idaho Statesman/re-reporting) that didn't actually happen, besides the PAC-16 talks? Because we know those talks were real, and those talks were pretty far down the road.

Besides that, anything that's hit this level of reporting usually happens.

I know that you are dying for it to happen because you just want the league to implode but it won't. I have no doubts that Boise is talking with MWC. That league is trying to survive and Boise would be stupid not to listen to them. Now the reports said that Boise would be gone as soon as Saturday, well its Sunday now they are talking 3 days. Whatever, all I'm saying is that there was no talk when Cuse and Pitt split, no talk when ND eft, no talk when Big Ten struck. So there are more examples of things happening quietly than in the media.

So, no examples.

We no longer have to root for the NBE to fail--we're out. This doesn't have much effect on us--it might make it easier for us to get the Big East name (you guys might be hard up for the cash from the tourney credits) or harder (you guys maybe need the basketball brand more.) That's about it.

(12-23-2012 12:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:28 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:39 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Usually when its all out in the media like the MWC is doing, its a sign of desperation, all the moves have been done very quietly until announced. I'll wait for the official announcements.

CAn you think of a move that was reported this widely (Dodds/Thamel/Idaho Statesman/re-reporting) that didn't actually happen, besides the PAC-16 talks? Because we know those talks were real, and those talks were pretty far down the road.

Besides that, anything that's hit this level of reporting usually happens.

I know that you are dying for it to happen because you just want the league to implode but it won't. I have no doubts that Boise is talking with MWC. That league is trying to survive and Boise would be stupid not to listen to them. Now the reports said that Boise would be gone as soon as Saturday, well its Sunday now they are talking 3 days. Whatever, all I'm saying is that there was no talk when Cuse and Pitt split, no talk when ND eft, no talk when Big Ten struck. So there are more examples of things happening quietly than in the media.

So, no examples.

We no longer have to root for the NBE to fail--we're out. This doesn't have much effect on us--it might make it easier for us to get the Big East name (you guys might be hard up for the cash from the tourney credits) or harder (you guys maybe need the basketball brand more.) That's about it.

didnt they make a sandbox for you, redman and the 2 or 3 other c7 fans to play. now run along and contemplate women's field hockey.

(12-23-2012 12:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:28 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:39 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Usually when its all out in the media like the MWC is doing, its a sign of desperation, all the moves have been done very quietly until announced. I'll wait for the official announcements.

CAn you think of a move that was reported this widely (Dodds/Thamel/Idaho Statesman/re-reporting) that didn't actually happen, besides the PAC-16 talks? Because we know those talks were real, and those talks were pretty far down the road.

Besides that, anything that's hit this level of reporting usually happens.

I know that you are dying for it to happen because you just want the league to implode but it won't. I have no doubts that Boise is talking with MWC. That league is trying to survive and Boise would be stupid not to listen to them. Now the reports said that Boise would be gone as soon as Saturday, well its Sunday now they are talking 3 days. Whatever, all I'm saying is that there was no talk when Cuse and Pitt split, no talk when ND eft, no talk when Big Ten struck. So there are more examples of things happening quietly than in the media.

So, no examples.

We no longer have to root for the NBE to fail--we're out. This doesn't have much effect on us--it might make it easier for us to get the Big East name (you guys might be hard up for the cash from the tourney credits) or harder (you guys maybe need the basketball brand more.) That's about it.

yet here you are trying to stir the crap. Time will tell my friend what happens but at least I have the decency to not crap on your new situation. Best of luck.

Shere Khan is right. Bragg, it is about time you move on.

At least I understand why MWC folks continue to come over here.

Y'know, this is a New Big East thread, not a conference realignment thread. I've been a rude guest--Sorry. I'm out.

Thank you. Simple fact is we're all on edge. Nothing personal.

(12-23-2012 09:57 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I don't know about the money involved here, but I know the MWC will never receive any respect or attention in the east. Hell, the PAC 12 barely gets noticed. If the PAC 12 only registers a small blip on the radar, you know the MWC doesn't stand a chance.

I just don't see why some of the MWC members wouldn't find the idea of creating a West division to the Big East intriguing. I think they would be better off by playing in a conference that spans three or four time zones rather than staying in the MWC with more limited exposure. The top 5 conferences in the country are all expanding into new markets; Boise, San Diego State, and some other MWC schools (plus BYU) need to do the same by joining the Big East and creating an all-sports West division.

(12-23-2012 07:36 PM)Golden Jedi Knight Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:57 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I don't know about the money involved here, but I know the MWC will never receive any respect or attention in the east. Hell, the PAC 12 barely gets noticed. If the PAC 12 only registers a small blip on the radar, you know the MWC doesn't stand a chance.

I just don't see why some of the MWC members wouldn't find the idea of creating a West division to the Big East intriguing. I think they would be better off by playing in a conference that spans three or four time zones rather than staying in the MWC with more limited exposure. The top 5 conferences in the country are all expanding into new markets; Boise, San Diego State, and some other MWC schools (plus BYU) need to do the same by joining the Big East and creating an all-sports West division.

We know there are significant costs to aligning with schools across the country- travel and games against teams you have no interest in hence fan indifference. So their have to be benefits that outweigh those costs.

When Aresco could project 10 million or more per school, that was enough to make it worthwhile. But now that the money looks closer to 4/5 million, that is much less certain.

(12-23-2012 08:01 PM)texasflood Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 07:36 PM)Golden Jedi Knight Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:57 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I don't know about the money involved here, but I know the MWC will never receive any respect or attention in the east. Hell, the PAC 12 barely gets noticed. If the PAC 12 only registers a small blip on the radar, you know the MWC doesn't stand a chance.

I just don't see why some of the MWC members wouldn't find the idea of creating a West division to the Big East intriguing. I think they would be better off by playing in a conference that spans three or four time zones rather than staying in the MWC with more limited exposure. The top 5 conferences in the country are all expanding into new markets; Boise, San Diego State, and some other MWC schools (plus BYU) need to do the same by joining the Big East and creating an all-sports West division.

We know there are significant costs to aligning with schools across the country- travel and games against teams you have no interest in hence fan indifference. So their have to be benefits that outweigh those costs.

When Aresco could project 10 million or more per school, that was enough to make it worthwhile. But now that the money looks closer to 4/5 million, that is much less certain.

Fan indifference is not measured by miles. Notre Dame and USC are pretty far but the fans have become accustomed to the game and it matters. USF is closer to UAB and yet that game woud be less interesting to Bulls fans than playing Cinncinati,Houston and Boise.

the only atom bomb that needs dropped is the one we should drop on ourselves...we need to blow this pos thing we've got going up and start from scratch....

(12-23-2012 09:49 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  the only atom bomb that needs dropped is the one we should drop on ourselves...we need to blow this pos thing we've got going up and start from scratch....

You guys and UConn will be gone soon enough. Just humor us on your way out the door, huh?

(12-23-2012 10:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:39 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Usually when its all out in the media like the MWC is doing, its a sign of desperation, all the moves have been done very quietly until announced. I'll wait for the official announcements.

CAn you think of a move that was reported this widely (Dodds/Thamel/Idaho Statesman/re-reporting) that didn't actually happen, besides the PAC-16 talks? Because we know those talks were real, and those talks were pretty far down the road.

Besides that, anything that's hit this level of reporting usually happens.

There are at least 2 trainwreck variables that have ALREADY cropped up just since news of a possible Boise move was reported. One trainwreck is that Boise is now shopping around trying to keep thier own home TV rights. Two is that Aresco is apparantly reiterating a claim made about 2 weeks ago (reported by the NY Post) that the final deal will be around 100 million. Yes, this is not the first time this number has been floating around in the press.

Im sure the Boise/MW talks are ongoing and advanced. Im also fairly sure Boise will not move until the Big East contract number is substantially known. I suspect that is the reason Aresco has moved back into serious negotiations with the networks. He doesnt necessarily need to have a final contract, but he needs a solid working offer to keep Boise from wavering.

(12-23-2012 09:08 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 08:01 PM)texasflood Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 07:36 PM)Golden Jedi Knight Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:57 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I don't know about the money involved here, but I know the MWC will never receive any respect or attention in the east. Hell, the PAC 12 barely gets noticed. If the PAC 12 only registers a small blip on the radar, you know the MWC doesn't stand a chance.

I just don't see why some of the MWC members wouldn't find the idea of creating a West division to the Big East intriguing. I think they would be better off by playing in a conference that spans three or four time zones rather than staying in the MWC with more limited exposure. The top 5 conferences in the country are all expanding into new markets; Boise, San Diego State, and some other MWC schools (plus BYU) need to do the same by joining the Big East and creating an all-sports West division.

We know there are significant costs to aligning with schools across the country- travel and games against teams you have no interest in hence fan indifference. So their have to be benefits that outweigh those costs.

When Aresco could project 10 million or more per school, that was enough to make it worthwhile. But now that the money looks closer to 4/5 million, that is much less certain.

Fan indifference is not measured by miles. Notre Dame and USC are pretty far but the fans have become accustomed to the game and it matters. USF is closer to UAB and yet that game woud be less interesting to Bulls fans than playing Cinncinati,Houston and Boise.

Point taken, but to the extent that I would qualify my comment by saying that if the distant school is a national big-name (like a USC or Notre Dame) then the distance doesn't matter. Also, Boise is itself a quasi big-name so they are a desirable foe for nBE schools east of the Mississippi like USF.

But when it comes to what Boise wants to do, we're not talking about big names here. The issue is whether Boise fans would rather watch their team against Colorado State or Temple, Fresno or ECU. None of those schools has a brand advantage to entice Boise fans, so the natural preference would be for the western opponents. To overcome that, the nBE has to throw significantly more money at them.

Nine months ago, it looked like the nBE could do just that. And perhaps offer an AQ bid in the new playoffs as well. Now the AQ bid is gone and the money is projected to be far less than it was, hence Boise's second thoughts.

(12-24-2012 02:06 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 10:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:39 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Usually when its all out in the media like the MWC is doing, its a sign of desperation, all the moves have been done very quietly until announced. I'll wait for the official announcements.

CAn you think of a move that was reported this widely (Dodds/Thamel/Idaho Statesman/re-reporting) that didn't actually happen, besides the PAC-16 talks? Because we know those talks were real, and those talks were pretty far down the road.

Besides that, anything that's hit this level of reporting usually happens.

There are at least 2 trainwreck variables that have ALREADY cropped up just since news of a possible Boise move was reported. One trainwreck is that Boise is now shopping around trying to keep thier own home TV rights. Two is that Aresco is apparantly reiterating a claim made about 2 weeks ago (reported by the NY Post) that the final deal will be around 100 million. Yes, this is not the first time this number has been floating around in the press.

Im sure the Boise/MW talks are ongoing and advanced. Im also fairly sure Boise will not move until the Big East contract number is substantially known. I suspect that is the reason Aresco has moved back into serious negotiations with the networks. He doesnt necessarily need to have a final contract, but he needs a solid working offer to keep Boise from wavering.

... and yet the same Jersey guy who is trying to re-flloat the $100m figure also said that the nBE would not focus on TV negotiations until after the new year and after Boise was mollified. Go figure.

FWIW, i think you are correct. Aresco needs to present Boise with some "solid" dollar figures in order to have a fighting chance at keeping them in the fold.

Yes but if the BE can land the better tv on tract and stronger SOS it would still provide Boise the best deal other than being taken by Big12 and Pac12 which is Boise's real goal. How do you keep moving up the ladder and keep putting yourself closer to that goal and making yourself attractive.

As for your analogy, well if Boise ends up in a fourteen team BE division which is the goal of the league their schedule would look like this
SDSU,Fresno,UNLV,Houston,SMU,Navy,Temple,UCF- the last two rotated by years from the eastern division
Compare that to
Fresno,UNLV,New Mexico,Wyoming,USU,SJSU,AF,Nevada

Less money,less exposure and playing vs lesser name schools.

(12-24-2012 01:43 AM)SleepingGiantsFan Wrote:  

(12-23-2012 09:49 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  the only atom bomb that needs dropped is the one we should drop on ourselves...we need to blow this pos thing we've got going up and start from scratch....

You guys and UConn will be gone soon enough. Just humor us on your way out the door, huh?

I wasn't trying to be stupid here...I'm serious. I wish we could "start over" and re-evaluate the conference as is and make some decisions on who's in at this point and who's not....

(12-24-2012 09:09 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Yes but if the BE can land the better tv on tract and stronger SOS it would still provide Boise the best deal other than being taken by Big12 and Pac12 which is Boise's real goal. How do you keep moving up the ladder and keep putting yourself closer to that goal and making yourself attractive.

As for your analogy, well if Boise ends up in a fourteen team BE division which is the goal of the league their schedule would look like this
SDSU,Fresno,UNLV,Houston,SMU,Navy,Temple,UCF- the last two rotated by years from the eastern division
Compare that to
Fresno,UNLV,New Mexico,Wyoming,USU,SJSU,AF,Nevada

Less money,less exposure and playing vs lesser name schools.

No question, if Aresco can deliver a media contract that has a significantly better value than the MWC then the nBE will continue to be a better option for Boise than the MWC. Right now that seems to be a big if.

But, another option is going indy, which given what Boise seems to be demanding of the nBE and MWC (retention of home rights) might be very attractive to them. If Boise really is the Big Tuna that can save MWC or nBE football then this means their football is significantly more valuable than the average value of football in both the nBE or MWC, and thus they will probably be subsidizing the football contract of either conference. Going Indy could very well allow them to retain more of their value.

(12-24-2012 09:17 AM)texasflood Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 09:09 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Yes but if the BE can land the better tv on tract and stronger SOS it would still provide Boise the best deal other than being taken by Big12 and Pac12 which is Boise's real goal. How do you keep moving up the ladder and keep putting yourself closer to that goal and making yourself attractive.

As for your analogy, well if Boise ends up in a fourteen team BE division which is the goal of the league their schedule would look like this
SDSU,Fresno,UNLV,Houston,SMU,Navy,Temple,UCF- the last two rotated by years from the eastern division
Compare that to
Fresno,UNLV,New Mexico,Wyoming,USU,SJSU,AF,Nevada

Less money,less exposure and playing vs lesser name schools.

No question, if Aresco can deliver a media contract that has a significantly better value than the MWC then the nBE will continue to be a better option for Boise than the MWC. Right now that seems to be a big if.

But, another option is going indy, which given what Boise seems to be demanding of the nBE and MWC (retention of home rights) might be very attractive to them. If Boise really is the Big Tuna that can save MWC or nBE football then this means their football is significantly more valuable than the average value of football in both the nBE or MWC, and thus they will probably be subsidizing the football contract of either conference. Going Indy could very well allow them to retain more of their value.

That would put the MWC in even worse position.

What would stop Fresno from making the jump to be with SDSU then?

Boise cannot go indy, times have changed there is little access to major bowls,playoffs and playoff tv money if you are an indy not named Notre Dame read the new rules. This is why the MWC and BE think that BYU might be back in play in next few years

(12-24-2012 09:19 AM)k5james Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 09:17 AM)texasflood Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 09:09 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Yes but if the BE can land the better tv on tract and stronger SOS it would still provide Boise the best deal other than being taken by Big12 and Pac12 which is Boise's real goal. How do you keep moving up the ladder and keep putting yourself closer to that goal and making yourself attractive.

As for your analogy, well if Boise ends up in a fourteen team BE division which is the goal of the league their schedule would look like this
SDSU,Fresno,UNLV,Houston,SMU,Navy,Temple,UCF- the last two rotated by years from the eastern division
Compare that to
Fresno,UNLV,New Mexico,Wyoming,USU,SJSU,AF,Nevada

Less money,less exposure and playing vs lesser name schools.

No question, if Aresco can deliver a media contract that has a significantly better value than the MWC then the nBE will continue to be a better option for Boise than the MWC. Right now that seems to be a big if.

But, another option is going indy, which given what Boise seems to be demanding of the nBE and MWC (retention of home rights) might be very attractive to them. If Boise really is the Big Tuna that can save MWC or nBE football then this means their football is significantly more valuable than the average value of football in both the nBE or MWC, and thus they will probably be subsidizing the football contract of either conference. Going Indy could very well allow them to retain more of their value.

That would put the MWC in even worse position.

What would stop Fresno from making the jump to be with SDSU then?

If Boise does go indy, that hurts the MWC and the nBE. Of course going indy is complicated, you have to line up a network or at least shop around and get a strong feel for who would be willing to offer a deal and for how much, and you have to schedule. Neither are easy, but BYU did it.