(12-21-2012 09:23 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:14 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  byu doesn't go back to the mwc in its dilpidated and crumbling condition.

BYU isn't going back to the MWC under any conditions. They left the MWC when they were in better condition than they are right now. BYU has a TV deal that will pay them better than anything the MWC can ever reasonably hope to get.

I wouldn't underestimate the bond between BYU and the range schools. That would be foolish. Also if BYU is seen as the catalyst that sends the other MWC schools into oblivion that is not good for BYU.

At the end of the day, Fresno, Boise, UNLV and San Diego want the same thing which is an all sports conference with a better TV deal.

We have two paths to get there: 1) a renegotiated CBS deal in the MWC that improves the payout. 2) an 8 team all sports western division of the Big East

Either of those are acceptable and if one of them can pull in BYU with it so much the better. I am positive the four schools are working together to achieve this model. Boise/SDSU are talking with the MWC and Fresno/UNLV are talking with the Big East. It is just a matter of which path gets them there first.

(12-21-2012 11:29 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  BYU is an odd spot right now. They are outside the major bowl system but they also don't need a conference to earn a nice TV deal. Reaching out to UNLV would be first sign that an all sports conference could be in the cards. Contacting Fresno State and only adding them probably keeps 10/14 in play.

I expect to see a TV deal plus a new addition within the next month or so.

They are also in an odd spot in that they aren't driven by money as much as the rest of us. That one fact gives their administration a completely different view of realignment than most of ours.

With all that said and with all of their advantages, I sure didn't see much difference between them and the Aztecs last night.

I would like to see UNLV added all sports (and everyone else too). However, I think some one here are dramatically underselling the value that a FB-only invite to UNLV would bring the nBE. Because numbering your arguments in no way makes one a d*****...

1) Football performance is the most elastic variable and should not be the first or even second consideration, imo. As a Tulane fan, I can tell you that a run of a few good years on the field can rapidly fall apart with a few bad coaching hires. OTOH, teams can come out of some decades-long droughts to have some football success (Cincy, SMU, SDSU are great examples of this). I don't think UNLV will be down forever. As long as there is commitment, they will be competitive at some point.

2) Their market is ginormous and growing incredibly fast. It is a town that does like sports (and sports gaming, lets be honest). It also has NO pro football, and likely never will.

3) Their market contains a huge number of what's left of the MWC television sets. The MWC will have then lost Las Vegas, San Diego, DFW, Fresno, Salt Lake (Utes), as well as their two most marketable programs in BYU and Boise, all since their last tv contract. They will be left with Laramie, San Jose, Honolulu, Colorado Springs, Ft Collins, Albuquerque, Logan, and Reno. That's just not enough to sustain them. Creating distance between ourselves and the MWC will only help the BE.

4) Brand. They may not have great football, but their basketball program demonstrates that when the football team wins, it will already have name recognition and a base of support to grow into (and grow from).

Yes, they'd be best for all sports, but they do offer a lot of potential on the football side as well.

(12-21-2012 11:46 AM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:29 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  BYU is an odd spot right now. They are outside the major bowl system but they also don't need a conference to earn a nice TV deal. Reaching out to UNLV would be first sign that an all sports conference could be in the cards. Contacting Fresno State and only adding them probably keeps 10/14 in play.

I expect to see a TV deal plus a new addition within the next month or so.

They are also in an odd spot in that they aren't driven by money as much as the rest of us. That one fact gives their administration a completely different view of realignment than most of ours.

With all that said and with all of their advantages, I sure didn't see much difference between them and the Aztecs last night.

I understand what you're saying, but they are just as driven if not more driven by money than the rest of us. They see a different way to get there and are interested in doing different things once they get it, but the LDS church, like the RC church, and iike whatever Joel Osteen calls his church, is very interested in maximizing financial resources.

(12-21-2012 11:55 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:46 AM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:29 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  BYU is an odd spot right now. They are outside the major bowl system but they also don't need a conference to earn a nice TV deal. Reaching out to UNLV would be first sign that an all sports conference could be in the cards. Contacting Fresno State and only adding them probably keeps 10/14 in play.

I expect to see a TV deal plus a new addition within the next month or so.

They are also in an odd spot in that they aren't driven by money as much as the rest of us. That one fact gives their administration a completely different view of realignment than most of ours.

With all that said and with all of their advantages, I sure didn't see much difference between them and the Aztecs last night.

I understand what you're saying, but they are just as driven if not more driven by money than the rest of us. They see a different way to get there and are interested in doing different things once they get it, but the LDS church, like the RC church, and iike whatever Joel Osteen calls his church, is very interested in maximizing financial resources.

Well, I didn't see their outreach through their athletic program in that light, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first error I made on a sports message board.

If we go all sports with a true Western and Eastern division, then this becomes a very solid football/basketball league. I'm excited.

tnzazz out

(12-21-2012 11:57 AM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:55 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:46 AM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:29 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  BYU is an odd spot right now. They are outside the major bowl system but they also don't need a conference to earn a nice TV deal. Reaching out to UNLV would be first sign that an all sports conference could be in the cards. Contacting Fresno State and only adding them probably keeps 10/14 in play.

I expect to see a TV deal plus a new addition within the next month or so.

They are also in an odd spot in that they aren't driven by money as much as the rest of us. That one fact gives their administration a completely different view of realignment than most of ours.

With all that said and with all of their advantages, I sure didn't see much difference between them and the Aztecs last night.

I understand what you're saying, but they are just as driven if not more driven by money than the rest of us. They see a different way to get there and are interested in doing different things once they get it, but the LDS church, like the RC church, and iike whatever Joel Osteen calls his church, is very interested in maximizing financial resources.

Well, I didn't see their outreach through their athletic program in that light, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first error I made on a sports message board.

BYU will not join the BE for several reasons. They will join the P12 or B12 though. Once Utah got the callup they had to go indy to save face basically.

(12-21-2012 11:51 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  I would like to see UNLV added all sports (and everyone else too). However, I think some one here are dramatically underselling the value that a FB-only invite to UNLV would bring the nBE. Because numbering your arguments in no way makes one a d*****...

1) Football performance is the most elastic variable and should not be the first or even second consideration, imo. As a Tulane fan, I can tell you that a run of a few good years on the field can rapidly fall apart with a few bad coaching hires. OTOH, teams can come out of some decades-long droughts to have some football success (Cincy, SMU, SDSU are great examples of this). I don't think UNLV will be down forever. As long as there is commitment, they will be competitive at some point.

2) Their market is ginormous and growing incredibly fast. It is a town that does like sports (and sports gaming, lets be honest). It also has NO pro football, and likely never will.

3) Their market contains a huge number of what's left of the MWC television sets. The MWC will have then lost Las Vegas, San Diego, DFW, Fresno, Salt Lake (Utes), as well as their two most marketable programs in BYU and Boise, all since their last tv contract. They will be left with Laramie, San Jose, Honolulu, Colorado Springs, Ft Collins, Albuquerque, Logan, and Reno. That's just not enough to sustain them. Creating distance between ourselves and the MWC will only help the BE.

4) Brand. They may not have great football, but their basketball program demonstrates that when the football team wins, it will already have name recognition and a base of support to grow into (and grow from).

Yes, they'd be best for all sports, but they do offer a lot of potential on the football side as well.

I think this post is accurate the problem is from the perspective of the western schools. The benefits that existed when Boise and SDSU came over no longer exist. Now it is a matter of getting into a league with teams you want to be with (and its not Northridge and UC Riverside) and maximizing revenue dollars.

All four are using leverage to achieve those goals at some cost to either CBS or the eastern schools in the big east.

Sactown, you make it sound 50-50 that Fresno-UNLV come to the BE, or Boise and SDSU go back to the MWC. SDSU doesn't sound like they want any part of going back.

And CBS is not coughing up any life changing bucks in a renegotiation.

(12-21-2012 11:51 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  I would like to see UNLV added all sports (and everyone else too). However, I think some one here are dramatically underselling the value that a FB-only invite to UNLV would bring the nBE. Because numbering your arguments in no way makes one a d*****...

1) Football performance is the most elastic variable and should not be the first or even second consideration, imo. As a Tulane fan, I can tell you that a run of a few good years on the field can rapidly fall apart with a few bad coaching hires. OTOH, teams can come out of some decades-long droughts to have some football success (Cincy, SMU, SDSU are great examples of this). I don't think UNLV will be down forever. As long as there is commitment, they will be competitive at some point.

2) Their market is ginormous and growing incredibly fast. It is a town that does like sports (and sports gaming, lets be honest). It also has NO pro football, and likely never will.

3) Their market contains a huge number of what's left of the MWC television sets. The MWC will have then lost Las Vegas, San Diego, DFW, Fresno, Salt Lake (Utes), as well as their two most marketable programs in BYU and Boise, all since their last tv contract. They will be left with Laramie, San Jose, Honolulu, Colorado Springs, Ft Collins, Albuquerque, Logan, and Reno. That's just not enough to sustain them. Creating distance between ourselves and the MWC will only help the BE.

4) Brand. They may not have great football, but their basketball program demonstrates that when the football team wins, it will already have name recognition and a base of support to grow into (and grow from).

Yes, they'd be best for all sports, but they do offer a lot of potential on the football side as well.

If I'm the MWC and you want them for football only, I'd frigging waive the exit fees and gift wrap them for you.

1. Football performance may be elastic but theirs has been consistently bad for more than 20 years. Like not in the top 110 of FBS.

2. Their market is not ginormous. Their DMA includes 95% of their local fan base -- and their DMA is not all that big.

3. Same thing stated in a different way -- they do not have a huge number of television sets.

4. Band is strong for basketball but that doesn't necessarily translate to football. They have a very high transient population -- people who aren't there for long and never develop loyalty to the school.

Most of their large crowds are a result of opponent fan bases. Wisky came there a couple of years ago and as I recall, many of their fans bought season tickets because it was the only way to get tickets to that one game. You can imagine what happened to the rest of the tickets.

And that is one good thing about Vegas. They are a destination city. Good for basketball tourney and a bowl, cheap place to travel to, etc. But I don't see how that transitions into conference income.

Yoda out...

(12-21-2012 12:27 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:51 AM)OUGwave Wrote:  I would like to see UNLV added all sports (and everyone else too). However, I think some one here are dramatically underselling the value that a FB-only invite to UNLV would bring the nBE. Because numbering your arguments in no way makes one a d*****...

1) Football performance is the most elastic variable and should not be the first or even second consideration, imo. As a Tulane fan, I can tell you that a run of a few good years on the field can rapidly fall apart with a few bad coaching hires. OTOH, teams can come out of some decades-long droughts to have some football success (Cincy, SMU, SDSU are great examples of this). I don't think UNLV will be down forever. As long as there is commitment, they will be competitive at some point.

2) Their market is ginormous and growing incredibly fast. It is a town that does like sports (and sports gaming, lets be honest). It also has NO pro football, and likely never will.

3) Their market contains a huge number of what's left of the MWC television sets. The MWC will have then lost Las Vegas, San Diego, DFW, Fresno, Salt Lake (Utes), as well as their two most marketable programs in BYU and Boise, all since their last tv contract. They will be left with Laramie, San Jose, Honolulu, Colorado Springs, Ft Collins, Albuquerque, Logan, and Reno. That's just not enough to sustain them. Creating distance between ourselves and the MWC will only help the BE.

4) Brand. They may not have great football, but their basketball program demonstrates that when the football team wins, it will already have name recognition and a base of support to grow into (and grow from).

Yes, they'd be best for all sports, but they do offer a lot of potential on the football side as well.

I think this post is accurate the problem is from the perspective of the western schools. The benefits that existed when Boise and SDSU came over no longer exist. Now it is a matter of getting into a league with teams you want to be with (and its not Northridge and UC Riverside) and maximizing revenue dollars.

All four are using leverage to achieve those goals at some cost to either CBS or the eastern schools in the big east.

This. FB only made sense when BSU and SDSU came over because on the increase of comp and more TV $. Once teams left and the teams that replaced them were all from CUSA (save temple) it would no longer make sense to have a football only relationship with those schools.

(12-21-2012 12:28 PM)Yoda Wrote:  If I'm the MWC and you want them(UNLV) for football only, I'd frigging waive the exit fees and gift wrap them for you.

Better reason: Just the PR value of the move. "We're glad they're gone, and we laughed hysterically when the Big East took them."

(12-21-2012 12:27 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Sactown, you make it sound 50-50 that Fresno-UNLV come to the BE, or Boise and SDSU go back to the MWC. SDSU doesn't sound like they want any part of going back.

There is a difference between what the fans think and what the administration thinks -- or at least there can be. But Sactown is right -- there is a huge difference between the offers that BSU/SDSU accepted and that which we might accept if offered.

Since they accepted their invitation, your most important football schools have left, your basketball schools are leaving, you're no longer an AQ conference and the television money has fallen by perhaps $100 million a year. Big difference.

Doesn't mean we won't accept but not at all the same deal and it justifies far more caution and far more skepticism.

Yoda out...

(12-21-2012 08:09 AM)Yoda Wrote:  If I'm the MWC, my strategy is to keep Fresno and UNLV by capturing BYU. Do that, and Boise and San Diego come back.

So how do they capture BYU?

Basically, you give them whatever they want. Let them keep their ESPN contract and (if I recall correctly) let them re-broadcast BYU's conference away games, a CBS product, on the BYU network. CBS might not be thrilled with that idea but they still add to inventory by getting BYU's conference games that are played on the road and that's a net gain.

Get BYU and they have a much better chance of keeping Fresno and UNLV. Capture and keep those three and I think that SDSU and BSU come back.

And then go on the offensive. Go after UConn and Cincy for football only -- by promising to waive exit fees and long time notification requirements if they go to a Big Five conference. That frees them up to join the Catholic 7 in other than football -- which is where they would much rather be. The MWC doesn't have to keep those two schools forever -- just long enough to wound the nBE sufficiently that the MWC can take from the nBE while the nBE is no longer strong enough to take from the MWC.

The ability to at least attempt this is almost entirely a function of CBS's willingness to put real money on the table. So how much progress is "substantial progress"? I guess we will find out...

Yoda out...

well...I had my laugh for the day...CSU Fresno...COME ON DOWN!

The Big East should seriously buy its own fleet of charter planes and sublet them when not in use. The travel bills are going to be crushing.

Here is what Aresco could do to reel in BYU. First off you land Fresno and UNLV for all sports guaranteeing an all sports western conference. You then allow BYU to keep its ESPN contract for home games and they dont share in the leagues TV money from football until their ESPN contract runs out and their home games can be added to the league's TV contract.
You wil now have an ALL Sports league
EAST
UConn, Temple,ECU, UCF,USF,UC,Memphis, Tulane
WEST
Boise,SDSU,Fresno,UNLV,BYU,Houston, SMU. Add Navy in WEST for football only and invite Gonzaga for all sports. If Navy is no longer interested move to Air Force

(12-21-2012 12:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The Big East should seriously buy its own fleet of charter planes and sublet them when not in use. The travel bills are going to be crushing.

not if there are two divisions.

(12-21-2012 12:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The Big East should seriously buy its own fleet of charter planes and sublet them when not in use. The travel bills are going to be crushing.

It's not going to be as bad as one would think, esp if go to 16 team all sports. In hoops maybe 2 eastern games all year long(probably same trip)- and same for other sports.

(12-21-2012 12:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The Big East should seriously buy its own fleet of charter planes and sublet them when not in use. The travel bills are going to be crushing.

Wont be that bad if they play in divisions.

Western Division San Diego to Houston= 1467 miles

PAC 12 Wash St to Arizona= 1483 miles

ACC= Boston College to Miami= 1503 miles

(12-21-2012 12:36 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  well...I had my laugh for the day...CSU Fresno...COME ON DOWN!

Last time somebody said something like that to me was in 2005. The Air Force AD told me that I gave the entire AD staff a great laugh when I suggested that the BE invite Boise State and Fresno State for football only. I figured that they could put the rest of their programs in the Big West.

It seemed a great way to strengthen their own programs while making it impossible for the MWC to strengthen theirs.. Keep in mind that was before the MWC lost its best programs and it was rated higher than the BE.

Glad you enjoyed your laugh, however.

Yoda out...