(12-10-2012 09:51 AM)conaire Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 06:05 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 01:10 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Yeah thats probably true. We have an athletic director who has been here what 15 years and has no idea how to conduct a coaching search. Is this not interviewing anyone except the hire a new policy or do you think she has done it for all of them? Maybe thats how Bill landed the job here back in 2005.

Wait, Iowa State has to provide links for whom they've spoken to, but Kathy doesn't?!

LSuch a double standard.

DB, the guy is clueless. Everytime you counter his opinion (nowhere near a fact) he goes away never responding only to come back with some unsubstantiated opinion, from the depths of Oxford Ms or the corridors of the DC wasteland. I'm still waiting for his response on how KB got us into the bowls we were in or how she got us the ND game ? Sounds like a guy who WANTS to know but doesn't nor can know.

Yep that is all very plausible. I go off and hide when I can't defend my crazy ass opinions that lots of football coaches get fired everywhere after going 4-8 and not winning a bowl or division in 8 years. Probably because I live someplace that sounds different I have these wild notions that part of an AD's job is securing bowl bids and hiring and firing coaches. I mean the clear explanation is that we had a saint of a football coach who was held to a crazy standard and given no resources at all with which to compete by a university president who is a madman and an AD who is both incompetent and powerless but still to blame for all the troubles of the football program specifically.

A new coach can be a real benefit to a stagnate football program guys, thats why there is so much turnover in the profession. If you want to look at WMU's problems from an administrative standpoint it might be that we have missed opportunities by hanging on to coaches for too long. The writing was on the wall for Darnell after the 2002 season but we gave him two years to run it in the ground. Culhane was miserable for about 4 years before they pulled the plug. The second half of Hawkins tenure hasn't been as productive as the first. Perhaps institutionalized mediocrity has been part of the culture that repels new fan support? I really don't know but making a change at the HC position can both generate conversation and potentially improve a team. It is worth trying when the status quo isn't very impressive.

Yep right on queue a rambling verbose response. Clueless is right.

Quality post 22,883 by the message board guru

See its not verbose because I was responding to two posters and still trying to keep the thread on track because some people would rather focus on the topic instead of petty fights from people who spend too much time on here , hold strange grudges and take things way more seriously than they should.

Facts:

We are hiring a new coach and it's not going to be Bill Cubit.

Attendance, especially in Football, Basketball, and Hockey, is always a priority. And of course administration shares in responsibility (along with product coach puts on the field) for it.

Those things are self-evident.

So my suggestion is we start looking through the wind shield instead of rearview mirror.

(12-10-2012 11:08 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Quality post 22,883 by the message board guru

Liam, DB has a clue, as do some that disagree with his opinions. The problem with you is that you don't know what you are talking about except for generics (well thats what the book says an AD or a President does). No, each is an individual and does it as they seem fit or are capable of doing. Here the President and AD do their individual jobs as they seem fit or are capable of doing it which many feel is inadequate and they offer up facts, as DB has done in a mature way. You offer your opinions as facts and when DB owns you, you get all upset without extending anything that is concrete. Speak in specifics as to what Dunn or KB ( your bowl arguement is so wrong its hard to counter to someone who is so initially uninformed) has done in respect to the arguements made by DB.

And how do YOU KNOW about the Iowa State job ? Was that big news in your area of the country or through your contacts ?

The problem with people who try to develop an arguement's conclusion without substantiating the facts leading to his conclusion, prior, is that they look like idiots. You wanted him fired. Great, leave it at that but don't expand with bullsh#t that is not only innaccurate but ridiculous.

(12-10-2012 11:21 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Facts:

We are hiring a new coach and it's not going to be Bill Cubit.

Attendance, especially in Football, Basketball, and Hockey, is always a priority. And of course administration shares in responsibility (along with product coach puts on the field) for it.

Those things are self-evident.

So my suggestion is we start looking through the wind shield instead of rearview mirror.

Well said.

(12-10-2012 11:31 AM)conaire Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 11:08 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Quality post 22,883 by the message board guru

Liam, The problem with you is that you don't know what you are talking about except for generics (well thats what the book says an AD or a President does). No, each is an individual and does it as they seem fit or are capable of doing. Here the President and AD do their individual jobs as they seem fit or are capable of doing it which many feel is inadequate and they offer up facts, as DB has done in a mature way. You offer your opinions as facts and when DB owns you, you get all upset without extending anything that is concrete. Speak in specifics as to what Dunn or KB ( your bowl arguement is so wrong its hard to counter to someone who is so initially uninformed) has done in respect to the arguements made by DB.

And how do YOU KNOW about the Iowa State job ? Was that big news in your area of the country or through your contacts ?

The problem with people who try to develop an arguement's conclusion without substantiating the facts leading to his conclusion, prior, is that they look like idiots. You wanted him fired. Great, leave it at that but don't expand with bullsh#t that is not only innaccurate but ridiculous.

This is getting pathetic connie, can we simply have a discussion without all of this nonsense? Please. I am free to offer an opinion just like you are. Just because I choose to articulate my own instead of excepting as gospel what DB says doesn't really warrant a near daily disjointed rant from you about where I live. Until someone presents actual information I'm not going to just take their word for it and forget that they have an agenda.

Quote:I would've actually been supportive of one more year for Cubit before that kind of "lose him" or "lifer him" decision was made, but this wasn't on the table.

I can't blame you for feeling that way, but attendance not only told the tale, but more importantly the inside stuff with the players and the admin was the real key. He did not get along with the players or admin well, and I don't expect you (or others) to believe me. I'd rather have a coach who the mass-majority of players rally around and who is not JUST good at X's and O's. Because when the team is stumbling, it's going to be hard to get back up, you'll flop in consistency, and you're going to be that team with good expectations who consistently falls sub-par at best as the years roll on. I'm not bashing Cubit really -- it's tough being a coach, and things can end up veering off the map when you're great at a variety of things being in the HC position but lack in key fundamental areas where it catches up to you. But at the end of the day, you have to be a good Coach, not just an instructor. After evaluating everything, with people on the inside and out, I don't have any second thoughts about Cubit being gone.

I hope our new coach is good & sound, that we could pick someone up like Shafer who has proven himself more than good with WMU and his relationship to players, or someone with HC experience who knows how win better than any avg Joe with the resources he has, with a good eye on getting good resources (players) in. And if that happens, you could see attendance pick up -- which I think will also need some marketing ramped up as well -- to rebuild post-Cubit era where it fell.

(12-10-2012 01:52 PM)Liam9903 Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 11:31 AM)conaire Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 11:08 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Quality post 22,883 by the message board guru

Liam, The problem with you is that you don't know what you are talking about except for generics (well thats what the book says an AD or a President does). No, each is an individual and does it as they seem fit or are capable of doing. Here the President and AD do their individual jobs as they seem fit or are capable of doing it which many feel is inadequate and they offer up facts, as DB has done in a mature way. You offer your opinions as facts and when DB owns you, you get all upset without extending anything that is concrete. Speak in specifics as to what Dunn or KB ( your bowl arguement is so wrong its hard to counter to someone who is so initially uninformed) has done in respect to the arguements made by DB.

And how do YOU KNOW about the Iowa State job ? Was that big news in your area of the country or through your contacts ?

The problem with people who try to develop an arguement's conclusion without substantiating the facts leading to his conclusion, prior, is that they look like idiots. You wanted him fired. Great, leave it at that but don't expand with bullsh#t that is not only innaccurate but ridiculous.

This is getting pathetic connie, can we simply have a discussion without all of this nonsense? Please. I am free to offer an opinion just like you are. Just because I choose to articulate my own instead of excepting as gospel what DB says doesn't really warrant a near daily disjointed rant from you about where I live. Until someone presents actual information I'm not going to just take their word for it and forget that they have an agenda.

Liam offer opinions as opinions and facts as facts, not intertwined. Thats the problem. KB did not secure the bowls. Fact. BC's situation with ISU and others for that matter, is not that you state as factual. Fact.

(12-11-2012 12:26 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:I would've actually been supportive of one more year for Cubit before that kind of "lose him" or "lifer him" decision was made, but this wasn't on the table.

I can't blame you for feeling that way, but attendance not only told the tale, but more importantly the inside stuff with the players and the admin was the real key. He did not get along with the players or admin well, and I don't expect you (or others) to believe me. I'd rather have a coach who the mass-majority of players rally around and who is not JUST good at X's and O's. Because when the team is stumbling, it's going to be hard to get back up, you'll flop in consistency, and you're going to be that team with good expectations who consistently falls sub-par at best as the years roll on. I'm not bashing Cubit really -- it's tough being a coach, and things can end up veering off the map when you're great at a variety of things being in the HC position but lack in key fundamental areas where it catches up to you. But at the end of the day, you have to be a good Coach, not just an instructor. After evaluating everything, with people on the inside and out, I don't have any second thoughts about Cubit being gone.

I hope our new coach is good & sound, that we could pick someone up like Shafer who has proven himself more than good with WMU and his relationship to players, or someone with HC experience who knows how win better than any avg Joe with the resources he has, with a good eye on getting good resources (players) in. And if that happens, you could see attendance pick up -- which I think will also need some marketing ramped up as well -- to rebuild post-Cubit era where it fell.

OK GA

(12-11-2012 12:32 PM)conaire Wrote:  Liam offer opinions as opinions and facts as facts, not intertwined. Thats the problem. KB did not secure the bowls. Fact. BC's situation with ISU and others for that matter, is not that you state as factual. Fact.

Here is the article detailing how the athletic department worked with the conference and the bowl leading up to the bowl bid. She had a hand in it. That was in response to you comparing our admin to La Tech's who turned down a bowl bid. One worked to make it happen the other did not. It was an unfair analogy on your part.

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2..._wort.html

Now there is a link and an explanation. Can you provide any evidence of any kind that Bill Cubit turned down the head coaching job at Iowa State? There was a Bruce Feldman tweet that they were interested in interviewing him that we had a thread about on this board. No report of any interview taking place ever came through. No report of an offer. It might have happened I don't know, but its a rumor not a FACT until someone credible substantiates it. Do you see the difference? You can choose to believe the rumor if you want but its absurd for you to chastise me on intertwining fact and opinion just because we don't have the same ax to grind.

(12-11-2012 12:50 PM)Liam9903 Wrote:  

(12-11-2012 12:32 PM)conaire Wrote:  Liam offer opinions as opinions and facts as facts, not intertwined. Thats the problem. KB did not secure the bowls. Fact. BC's situation with ISU and others for that matter, is not that you state as factual. Fact.

Here is the article detailing how the athletic department worked with the conference and the bowl leading up to the bowl bid. She had a hand in it. That was in response to you comparing our admin to La Tech's who turned down a bowl bid. One worked to make it happen the other did not. It was an unfair analogy on your part.

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2..._wort.html

Now there is a link and an explanation. Can you provide any evidence of any kind that Bill Cubit turned down the head coaching job at Iowa State? There was a Bruce Feldman tweet that they were interested in interviewing him that we had a thread about on this board. No report of any interview taking place ever came through. No report of an offer. It might have happened I don't know, but its a rumor not a FACT until someone credible substantiates it. Do you see the difference? You can choose to believe the rumor if you want but its absurd for you to chastise me on intertwining fact and opinion just because we don't have the same ax to grind.

She accepted it on behalf of the U. Nothing more than that.

That would still be more than what La Tech's AD did. Which was our point of disagreement and as a conference AD she is part of the group that has made the conference a very attractive bowl partner, the article points this out even if you don't think she had anything to do with us jumping up in the selection last year or getting the Texas Bowl instead of Hawaii back in 2008.

Also I would like you to at least decide if she is ineffectual or powerless. I can't keep the criticism straight and it seems to be the subtext of every discussion for the last few weeks.