In 5 years as head coach he never finished above 3rd in the conference...what were the complaints about cubit again?

(11-27-2012 11:59 PM)Cubit4pres Wrote:  In 5 years as head coach he never finished above 3rd in the conference...what were the complaints about cubit again?

7 wins in the last 21 games against MAC West opponents dating back to 2008, mainly.

Call me crazy, but it seems like he's best known for building the program there from scratch. Is that what WMU is looking for at this point? Western's facilities aren't bad and we're not in the midst of half a dozen years of 1-3 wins. That seems more like something that EMU would be looking for.

*shrug*

OK motown, what will your expectations of trent miles be? Or more appropriate, what are your expectations of WMU? Is it possible to sustain a high level here as it is setup now?

You asked what the biggest complaint was about Cubit, and I provided it: His MAC West performance in recent years. Now whether either of us thinks that's a fireable offense, I don't know. I like Cubit. I think both options - fire Cubit or extend his contract for several more years - made me uneasy for different reasons. But be that as it may, I'm looking forward to see what the next guy can do with a fresh approach.

And as I stated a few posts up, I'm not going to get all or regardless of who we hire.

While a W-L record at another institution is important, there are many, many other factors that play into being a good coach, recruiter and, for lack of a better term, father figure to kids.

Whoever comes on board, I don't think it's fair to make a complete accurate assessment until at least Year 3 into the gig. But that's just me. As far as "Is it possible to sustain a high level here as it is setup now?", I have no idea. Seems other people here are more in tuned to the personalities, resources and financial ins-and-outs of the athletic department and higher-ups, so I'm not one to ask.

Trent Miles is a bit of an unknown. He has never had much to work with and has done remarkably well. The idea that you punish a guy for building up a bad program is nonsense, every coach of the year award always goes to a guy who takes a bad team to 6 7 or 8 wins. Hell we've had people on this board who want to leave with Cubit because of his turnaround here in 2005. The fact is if we wait and see if a coach is a can't miss then somebody else will have probably hired them first. Sometimes you have to recognize potential and take a chance. It might work out, and it might not but it beats doing nothing and we don't have the money for a can't miss hire.

This may be true Liam, he hasn't had much to work with, and he won't at WMU as well so that may be the best barometer with what we can use to measure his value to our university and athletic department.

However I don't see him as being "punished" in these discussions for building up a bad program, and I'd be interested in some facts backing the claim you make here. "every coach of the year award always goes to a guy who takes a bad team to 6 7 or 8 wins."

Could you provide a link to the rest us who are more questioning the direction of hiring a guy we don't know much about, not interested in punishing the poor man because that would be malicious and I for one do not want to participate in a malicious discussion about a person without the facts. Thanks in advance for your help Liam.

I only wish you had been around to provide your level headed approach and contributions earlier when we were having these back and forth discussions.

This is a tough one. I'm surprised by this direction really. All along I was thinking we either go for a HC who really made it work at a lower level in terms of winning, not turning around a dormat (i.e. how EMU did with Harkema back in the 80's, CMU did with Kelly, etc) or go with a guy who was either a Coordinator position or Assistant Head Coach who has been around winning programs for a while and wants to make the leap to being a header. Much like Hazell at Kent, who REALLY did turn around a dormat program and WIN on top of turning it around and into a winner.

Much along the lines of the candidates that WMU83 put forth earlier in this thread. This Miles deal, if it goes through and from all indications it will, since it really looks like he's been a favored name well before we knew about them drawing up Cubit's firing papers the day before the game and telling him to his face that he was fine, will take some time growing on me.

Sure isn't the "Andy Murray" type of hire this time. "We deserve better". Isn't that the feeling we had back in November? I'm going with that sentiment, it's really taken hold of me as of late.

could be wrong here, but I think the recent wave of firings may have been a game changer in WMU's direction. IMO, they were going the direction of a BCS OC type coach, despite the claims they want head coaching experience, and now they are scrambling to reestablish their direction. I would love to see a successful coach from a lower level get a chance to step up a level and grow with the WMU job. Until we have a proven track record and sustained success, no with BCS level dreams is going to see WMU as viable option.

I'm afraid, Miles got a call from another school, and now we are in a bidding war.

If you are Miles, and Butch Jones is gone from Cincy, would you not want that? Butch supposedly is a short list candidate at 2 or 3 BCS jobs right now. It's just a matter of days.

I believe this is a done deal. The administration is waiting to announce this afterSunday's player's banquet.

(11-28-2012 05:52 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  This may be true Liam, he hasn't had much to work with, and he won't at WMU as well so that may be the best barometer with what we can use to measure his value to our university and athletic department.

However I don't see him as being "punished" in these discussions for building up a bad program, and I'd be interested in some facts backing the claim you make here. "every coach of the year award always goes to a guy who takes a bad team to 6 7 or 8 wins."

Could you provide a link to the rest us who are more questioning the direction of hiring a guy we don't know much about, not interested in punishing the poor man because that would be malicious and I for one do not want to participate in a malicious discussion about a person without the facts. Thanks in advance for your help Liam.

I only wish you had been around to provide your level headed approach and contributions earlier when we were having these back and forth discussions.

Oh I get it...clever. Here is a link to the 2005 MAC coach of the years bio.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coac...bit-1.html

I'm with desertbronco and bronconick on this one...sort of underwhelmed by Trent Miles. His attributes are admirable, and he could very well be the one we need. But I'm just kind of blah on him.

I commend him for the job he has done at Indiana St. His players do all the right things.

However...

-WMU isn't a program that is in complete need of an overhaul. Our players are already doing the right thing in the classroom and community (thanks to BC). We have talent (thanks to BC) that needs to be coached and motivated to a conference c-ship level.

-It bothers me that Miles hasn't won his conference. His team is headed in the right direction, and he could very well be on track to win a c-ship in the upcoming years...but he still hasn't done it yet. And yes, I recognize that the list of potential candidates that have experienced success is likely very short.

-I find it very concerning if our admin decided to fire BC, and hire Miles. Why? Because Miles hasn't proven he can coach a college team at an elite level. To be fair, none of the candidates on our list have likely coached college football teams at an elite level. However, in my mind, there is a big difference between hiring a young coach in his 30's or 40's that is itching to make his own path after following BCS coaches who are successful for the past 5-20 years, and a coach such as Miles who has proven success in a complete overhaul program.

-If our players had proven to be a complete trainwreck off the field and we have had losing records for 10 years running...then yeah, I'd endorse Miles in a heartbeat. We aren't in that spot though. Our players can play with the best the MAC has to offer. They got outplayed and outcoached in the second half of most games. We need to find someone who can change that.

(11-28-2012 08:26 AM)fbgab Wrote:  I'm afraid, Miles got a call from another school, and now we are in a bidding war.

If you are Miles, and Butch Jones is gone from Cincy, would you not want that? Butch supposedly is a short list candidate at 2 or 3 BCS jobs right now. It's just a matter of days.

Miles isn't going to Cincy, so I don't bnelieve thats the hang up. In a more perfect world he'd jump at this job, but the world ain't perfect.

I don't think Miles is getting a phone call from any other school right now. The only schools that would likely hire him are in the MAC. And WMU is the only opening right now. If he wants to wait 3-6 weeks, then yeah, there could be openings at Ball St, NIU, Toledo, Kent, and/or BGSU. But right now, we are his only option.

Frankly, a team like Cincy who is likely losing Butch Jones, isn't going to look at Trent Miles.

(11-28-2012 01:53 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Trent Miles is a bit of an unknown. He has never had much to work with and has done remarkably well.

Oklahoma (1990, graduate assistant), Northern Illinois (1991-94, wide receivers coach), Hawaii (1995-96, wide receivers coach), Fresno State (1997-99, wide receivers coach), Green Bay Packers (2000, offensive assistant), Stanford (2001, wide receivers coach), Notre Dame (2002-04, wide receivers coach), Washington (2005-07, running backs coach), Indiana State (2008-present, head coach, 0-12, 1-10, 6-5, 6-5 and 7-4 respectively ).

I think the hire would be in line with AD's thought process

I'm not quite sure about hes NEVER had much to work with ? (The guy worked at OU,ND,UW, GB Packers, Fresno State w/Hill)

ISU not the Taj Mahal but heres last years results not many opponents (outside of YSU) that are ND in disguise

Indiana L24-17 0-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 8 vsQuincy W44-0 1-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 15 vsDrake W27-10 2-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 22 vsSD St L24-10 2-2 (0-1)
Sat, Sept 29 @S Illinois W24-3 3-2 (1-1)
Sat, Oct 6 vsMissouri St W31-17 4-2 (2-1)
Sat, Oct 13 @ND St W17-14 5-2 (3-1)
Sat, Oct 20 @W Illinois W23-7 6-2 (4-1)
Sat, Oct 27 vsSouth Dakota W45-14 7-2 (5-1)
Sat, Nov 3 vsIllinois St L17-10 7-3 (5-2)
Sat, Nov 17 @Youngstown St L27-6 7-4 (5-3

(11-28-2012 09:22 AM)EA3 Wrote:  I don't think Miles is getting a phone call from any other school right now. The only schools that would likely hire him are in the MAC. And WMU is the only opening right now. If he wants to wait 3-6 weeks, then yeah, there could be openings at Ball St, NIU, Toledo, Kent, and/or BGSU. But right now, we are his only option.

Frankly, a team like Cincy who is likely losing Butch Jones, isn't going to look at Trent Miles.

I think the NIU and KSU jobs are opened well before Christmas. BSU next then Toledo. Have hesitations about BGSU with so many others departing.

(11-28-2012 09:41 AM)conaire Wrote:  

(11-28-2012 01:53 AM)Liam9903 Wrote:  Trent Miles is a bit of an unknown. He has never had much to work with and has done remarkably well.

Oklahoma (1990, graduate assistant), Northern Illinois (1991-94, wide receivers coach), Hawaii (1995-96, wide receivers coach), Fresno State (1997-99, wide receivers coach), Green Bay Packers (2000, offensive assistant), Stanford (2001, wide receivers coach), Notre Dame (2002-04, wide receivers coach), Washington (2005-07, running backs coach), Indiana State (2008-present, head coach, 0-12, 1-10, 6-5, 6-5 and 7-4 respectively ).

I think the hire would be in line with AD's thought process

I'm not quite sure about hes NEVER had much to work with ?

ISU not the Taj Mahal but not heres last years results not many opponents (outside of YSU) that are ND in disguise
Indiana L24-17 0-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 8 vsQuincy W44-0 1-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 15 vsDrake W27-10 2-1 (0-0)
Sat, Sept 22 vsSD St L24-10 2-2 (0-1)
Sat, Sept 29 @S Illinois W24-3 3-2 (1-1)
Sat, Oct 6 vsMissouri St W31-17 4-2 (2-1)
Sat, Oct 13 @ND St W17-14 5-2 (3-1)
Sat, Oct 20 @W Illinois W23-7 6-2 (4-1)
Sat, Oct 27 vsSouth Dakota W45-14 7-2 (5-1)
Sat, Nov 3 vsIllinois St L17-10 7-3 (5-2)
Sat, Nov 17 @Youngstown St L27-6 7-4 (5-3

Here's my problem with that...

Those who supported BC's dismissal were steadfast in pointing out that he had never won the West (which is a valid point). So now we are going to hire a coach that has never won his division at the lower level and is mainly known for his complete overhaul of the worst FCS program in the country.

The more I look at Trent Miles, the more I think he belongs at Akron or EMU (no disrespect to either programs, but they haven't won much in the last 10 years).

If WMU hires the man, I will support him like any other coach. But if I'm going to play Fantasy Football Coaching Hire with the WMU job, I'm likely looking for something different.

Pete Lembo will likely be the first MAC head coach to leave IMO.

(11-28-2012 09:50 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  Pete Lembo will likely be the first MAC head coach to leave IMO.

Ahead of Doeren?