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Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(05-27-2012 12:14 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Ultimately, if it's not part of the playoff system, it's worth will be less and less every year, the same way that the now official Rose, Fiesta, Sugar, and Orange Bowl games are worth less now that there is an NC game, with three of the four having either its lowest ratings ever, or in the case of the Fiesta, its second lowest rating ever last year.

True, but it's obvious what the role of the Champions Bowl will be: It is a guaranteed cash-cow for the SEC and Big12 during a time of transition to a more full-fledged playoff. Fans can afford to assume that SEC and Big 12 will always be strong and place a team in top four for playoffs, but their conference leaders cannot afford to make that assumption. Thus, the Champs Bowl monetizes the brand value of those conferences even in "down years". In great years, it adds gravy to the playoff steak. It is evidence that playoff money, like playoff participation, is likely to be solely merit-based: You make the playoffs, your conference gets paid. You don't, it doesn't. Whatever the specifics of the new playoff deal, one thing is becoming clear: Big Post-season money will now no longer be guaranteed to "Big Six" or "Big Four" conferences by the system itself. To cash big checks, a conference either has to hope its teams earn lucrative playoff spots (iffy for everyone) or make side-deals with bowls by itself to guarantee big money even if it doesn't qualify for playoffs. Champs Bowl does this for SEC and Big 12.

Champions Bowl means that the Big 12 and SEC will still cash a fat BCS-level check even if they have a down year and don't place teams in playoffs. With Sugar Bowl too, the SEC will almost surely cash two such checks each year.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2012 07:39 AM by quo vadis.)
06-01-2012 07:34 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-01-2012 06:00 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(06-01-2012 02:54 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegespor...-the-sand/

Maybe...but this article gives credence to the Pac-12/Big Ten pushing for the plus one.

Uh oh.
Fortunately, they should be outvoted on the plus-one issue.

I am not convinced of this yet. The Champions Bowl gives the SEC and B12 the flexibility to join the B1G and P12 if that's where things head.
06-01-2012 08:06 AM
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MiamiWolv Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
[/quote]Fortunately, they should be outvoted on the plus-one issue.


[/quote]

The other conferences cannot coerce the B1G and PAC to join their playoff. The B1G and PAC will be content to just slot their champs in the Rose Bowl.

That's the thing. You can't have a playoff without those two conferences. So they have significant power because unlike the SEC, they wouldn't hesitate to return to the old bowl structure if the playoff structure isn't to their liking. The SEC really wants a playoff. There is a large faction of the B1G and PAC presidents which don't want a playoff at all.
06-01-2012 09:30 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
Fortunately, they should be outvoted on the plus-one issue.


[/quote]

The other conferences cannot coerce the B1G and PAC to join their playoff. The B1G and PAC will be content to just slot their champs in the Rose Bowl.

That's the thing. You can't have a playoff without those two conferences. So they have significant power because unlike the SEC, they wouldn't hesitate to return to the old bowl structure if the playoff structure isn't to their liking. The SEC really wants a playoff. There is a large faction of the B1G and PAC presidents which don't want a playoff at all.
[/quote]

There is a major downside to that startegy as well, perception. Right now the records and perception indicate that the best two conferences are the SEC and Big 12. Slive and Bowlsby could call their bluff if they stonewall. Then as far as most of the country would be concerned the true champion would emerge from the Champions Bowl. In that case the name might prove prophetic.

I don't think its in anyones interest to push toward that conclusion. It's just more posturing by both sides. The real issue will emerge. If they were really smart they would push this thing to eight now. The four #1 teams and #2 teams of the 4 big conferences seeded for a playoff. First round utilizes bowls, second round neutral sites, final round bid out.

Then Delany gets what he wants. Notre Dame is forced to join somewhere. Expansion happens suddenly everywhere and then just as suddenly stops, at least for a long while. All major conferences get wealthier and with those two teams each in a playoff maybe they could go ahead and expand to 18 or 20 a piece and include the Boise State's and San Diego State's, South Florida's, and Southern Miss's of the world. If they all have a stake it really wouldn't hurt too much to move to a top 72 or 80 for an upper tier. JR
06-01-2012 09:49 AM
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UMgoblue Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-01-2012 09:49 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Then as far as most of the country would be concerned the true champion would emerge from the Champions Bowl.

I disagree. Sure, serious college football fans might see it that way, but "national perception" is a different matter. The B1G has the largest alumni in the country...i think the Pac is second or third. And there in lies your problem. The SEC is very popular in the south...not so much anywhere else. The B1G is popular in the midwest, the east, and the west because of their huge alumni base spreading out. If the the SEC/Big12 and the B1G/PAC were to separate, i would put my money behind the Big/pac at garnering a larger/national following.
06-01-2012 10:33 AM
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bronconick Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
We already played that game from 1992-1997. The Big Ten and Pac Ten said screw off, everyone else setup a "Bowl Alliance National Championship Game" and it cost the Big Ten a shot at 1.5 more national titles in 5 years. Suddenly when the next contract rolls around, there they were with the Rose Bowl.

And since then, ESPN has grown infinitely more powerful when it comes to influencing your casual sports fan. Back out, especially if ESPN picks up the "National Playoff" and watch your status devolve to "How cute, they're like the Ivies" in a decade. Meanwhile, the older half of your fanbase is applauding the move as "screw the rest, the Rose Bowl is all" and the younger half screams in fury while you start reading comments from recruits outside the Midwest saying "Y'know, I want to play for a national title."
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2012 03:17 PM by bronconick.)
06-01-2012 03:15 PM
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MiamiWolv Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
[/quote]

There is a major downside to that startegy as well, perception. Right now the records and perception indicate that the best two conferences are the SEC and Big 12. Slive and Bowlsby could call their bluff if they stonewall. [/quote]

The SEC is clearly the best conference. I would seriously dispute that the Big 12 is ahead of the B1G and PAC. The Big 12 no longer has Texas A&M, Nebraska and Colorado -- three programs which won the B12 during the BCS era. Nebraska is one of the top 10 programs of all time. Colorado and A&M have competed for national titles in the past.

Yes, TCU was great in a non-BCS league. We'll see if they can maintain it. And West Virginia, for all their success in the BCS bowls, didn't win the league until Miami, VT and BC bolted for the ACC. How will they fare with UT and OU?

Right now, WVU and TCU are good. But long term, they don't measure up in to Texas A&M and Nebraska.
06-01-2012 03:27 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-01-2012 03:27 PM)MiamiWolv Wrote:  Yes, TCU was great in a non-BCS league. We'll see if they can maintain it. And West Virginia, for all their success in the BCS bowls, didn't win the league until Miami, VT and BC bolted for the ACC. How will they fare with UT and OU?

Right now, WVU and TCU are good. But long term, they don't measure up in to Texas A&M and Nebraska Missouri.
FIFY... Nebraska has already left. WVU is replacing Mizzou...

You just put your foot in front of your mouth. Let me shove it down your throat for you. Next time get your facts straight, and quit trying to slant the news...

FYI, the first year The BEast played a full conference schedule was 1993, and WVU went unbeaten during the regular season. WVU beat Miami 17-14 in Morgantown on the way to The BEast title...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_West_V...tball_team

BTW, WVU has 687 wins all-time, 17 more than A&M, and 73 more than Missouri. The Mountaineers have a better winning percentage than either the Aggies or Tigers as well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCA...ms_by_wins
06-01-2012 04:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
Fortunately, they should be outvoted on the plus-one issue.


[/quote]

The other conferences cannot coerce the B1G and PAC to join their playoff. The B1G and PAC will be content to just slot their champs in the Rose Bowl.

That's the thing. You can't have a playoff without those two conferences. So they have significant power because unlike the SEC, they wouldn't hesitate to return to the old bowl structure if the playoff structure isn't to their liking. The SEC really wants a playoff. There is a large faction of the B1G and PAC presidents which don't want a playoff at all.
[/quote]

Thank you for making my point. It's the attitude. Let them go back to the Rose Bowl. They will become in everyone's mind what they actually are, has beens. They were great during the ore boat days, during the automotive boom, and secured championships with African American athletes from the South and Southwest during the Jim Crow days. When the SEC finally accepted African American athletes in the late 60's the turn was made. The Big 10 remained strong during the 70's and started a long slow slide that corresponds to Carter's Iranian oil crisis. In the 80's Japanese cars killed Detroit and the slide deepened. That slide continues. The automotive bailout is failing, just like the bank bailout. There isn't going to be a football bailout! The Big 10 still fields good teams and an occasional great one, but their depth, their skill positions, and their talent pools are all extremely thin. And thin they are for good reason.

You lose because you can't out-recruit the SEC and Big 12. The PAC, outside of the Trojans and Ducks (both with very recent infractions), hasn't fielded a consistant winner in years. Stanford could prove me wrong, but I doubt it. Andrew Luck will be hard to replace.

So hang on to your hubris and pull your dysfunctional "take my marbles and go home" ploy when you don't get your way and just see if we care. The only thing great you will find in Pasadena is memories.

The good reason you are so thin is because your industry is gone, your economy is strained, and your population is migrating South to find work and escape the kind of nonsense that is going on in Wisconsin between the union and government. Without your Federal grants, which you will lose to a greater congressional representation in the South in coming years, your academic standing will start to crumble as well.

As fuel prices rise, and they will now that we have reached peak oil (even in spite of the commodities downturn), your decline in revenue producing jobs will only increase the outflow of people from your region who will be escaping the high cost of heating and looking for work.

I would think West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina will continue to grow because of how attactive a temperate climate and a cheaper cost of living can be.

Football on the West coast doesn't have the culture necessary to push it. Their best teams recruit the South and Texas. So when you play that precious Rose Bowl it will be a tepid team from the PAC playing a team from the Big 10 which will be just as anachronistic and lackuster as Notre Dame has been these past 20 years.

Right now you have the cooperation and desire of the South and Southwest to make this thing work for all of us, you better act upon it. We don't need you. We would like to have you with us because it is right for the people and for college football that you be a part of this, but it is not necessary. We will be getting stronger and you will be getting weaker every year that you don't participate.

We will have more people, and more industry. We will eventually have the Federal grants that you now enjoy. The SEC is already positioning itself with more AAU schools for that purpose. And we will still have a passionate football culture with plenty of recruits to feed the frenzy. If you want those recruits you better play us. Because if you don't their mommas and daddys won't let them go to your schools, even if they wanted to.

It's time you drop this childish behavior and worked with others for a better day. I'm sure there can be a compromise if one is truly sought. But Delany's petulance wreaks of the kind of pride that resents having lost its influence. Therefore, he must be contrary to prove he is still important. That's fine for someone who is still important. It can be dealt with. But, it is needlessly pathetic and destructive for someone who is not.

There will be four, maybe five, large conferences. It would be nice if they tied our nation together and brought us all some joy in hard times. Football is after all entertainment as well as sport. When ultimatums are issued in the entertainment world it is the market that will ultimately walk away. True leaders always respect the desires of those they serve as long as those desires make good sense. After all, it was Slive a few years back that wanted a 4 team playoff. But it was an out of step and obstinate Delany that opposed it. Ultimatums are the first indication that leaders no longer serve the people, but rather their own interests. It is then that leadership needs to be replaced, whether in the South or the North.

There are ways to have champions and at large teams play. The answer is 8. If Slive, Bowlsby (Dodds), Scott, and Delany are posturing, maybe they are all together in moving toward this number, but I doubt it. If they are all puffing up to see who's dominant the losers once again will be the kids on the teams, the fans, and ultimately the game itself. Do we really want that?

If there is a separation this time between the Big10/PAC interests and that of the Big12/SEC don't look for the breach to be healed anytime soon. Football will become a Southern thing and cease to be an American institution and the real losers will be the great folks I know in those states that surround the Lakes. The folks in California will lose too, but they will just turn their interests elsewhere. And the only real winners will be those who passionately hate the sport and want to tag it with concussions and seek to ban (change) part of what has made us great as a people (teamwork to achieve goals).

So I hope these ridiculous postures on all sides will be abandoned and that the great schools of the North will once again furnish Southern and Northern athletes with a stellar education. I hope for a day when the rust is sanded down and the industry of the North is reinvented and made vigorous again. When there are only 64 - 80 institutions in an upper tier, there will be plenty of young people to fill out our teams, make us competitive, and remind us of the joy of youth while giving us hope for tomorrow.

There is nothing we can't do together, and nothing we can prevent losing if we are divided. I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of those who try to divide us for their own gain, whether political, or economic. If we think in terms of region we don't think broadly enough. If the North suffers America suffers. And, since Southerners are Americans, that means they will suffer too. Southerners might not suffer in football, at least not right away, but in every other way possible we will suffer for the division. But if issued an ultimatum we will resist just as stubbornly and stupidly as those opposing us. It's human nature. It's time to start doing what is right for our people, all of our people. And it's time to apply that way of thinking to all issues. How can millions of Americans watch football so passionately and miss the point of success through teamwork?

While we are divided others profit from our stratification. But, if we work together there will be plenty for all of us and our children too. If four grown men who claim to be leaders can't work out a danged playoff for a group of 18-25 year olds we are truly doomed! JR


*By the way when the players tackle with their face up and their chinstraps tightened they won't get a lot of those concussions. I suspect many of them suffered the concussions while in High School (due to poor technique) and are only re-aggrevating them in College. JR
06-02-2012 02:01 AM
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allthatyoucantleavebehind Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
I understand "posturing" by everyone involved...but the SEC rhetoric coming after this week has been very, very strong. I would think that they want to not provoke the egos of the commishes involved. Just because they have the media on their side in favor of a 4-team playoff doesn't mean a lick. The commishes are protecting billion dollar cash cows...and a scathing opinion piece by a 60,000-a-year journalist isn't going to make Delany/Scott re-think their position. What it might do is pain these men into a corner where they say "screw your playoff"...we'll take the Rose and the Fiesta and the Capital One and laugh all the way to the bank.
06-02-2012 03:10 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)
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06-02-2012 07:33 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 07:39 AM by quo vadis.)
06-02-2012 07:38 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

A simple rule...."If The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football." Everything else is noise.
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06-02-2012 08:08 AM
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allthatyoucantleavebehind Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

Because the higher ranked team in the final poll is always better.

That’s why #4 Alabama smoked #6 Utah in 2008.
And why #3 Cincinnati smoked #5 Florida in 2009.
And why #8 Michigan State smoked #16 Alabama in 2010.
And why #1 Ohio State was back-to-back national champs in 2006 and 2007.

No, wait. I have that wrong. The top seeds lost 31-17, 51-24, and 49-7. OSU lost by a combined score of 79-38.

The SEC is tricking everyone into believing that "polls" are infallible.
06-02-2012 08:17 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

I think there is rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a runner-up.
1. Conference championships should be worth some kind of bonus.
2. Giving conference champions a bump spreads participation out around the country, which is worth something.
3. Politically, I think the other conferences want an unfair advantage for their conference champs over an SEC or Big 12 runner-up, so some guarantee for conference champs will be needed to get any Final Four passed.

All that said, none of those arguments are as important as the perceived damage of having a #2 or even #1 ranked team screwed out of the playoffs.

So I think Delany's plan works okay. CC's if they're ranked in the top six, otherwise start taking top-ranekd runnerups.

That would have put Alabama in in 2011, and put Oregon over Stanford.

Say there had been conference champs at #5 and #6--say Houston and Virginia Tech win their CCG's, so you have 4 CC's in the top 6. There would have been protests from Alabama fans, but not much support from anyone else, since Alabama had their shot at LSU and lost at home. The difference between a one-loss #2 and a one-loss #5 Virginia Tech would be manageable enough to leave Alabama out.

(I'm not worried about Notre Dame one way or the other--the rule will define "conference champs or independents", or "cc's or top-ranked independents." Plus, chances are that ND won't be top 4 in the ten-year term of this system anyway.)
06-02-2012 08:17 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 08:17 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

Because the higher ranked team in the final poll is always better.

That’s why #4 Alabama smoked #6 Utah in 2008.
And why #3 Cincinnati smoked #5 Florida in 2009.
And why #8 Michigan State smoked #16 Alabama in 2010.
And why #1 Ohio State was back-to-back national champs in 2006 and 2007.

No, wait. I have that wrong. The top seeds lost 31-17, 51-24, and 49-7. OSU lost by a combined score of 79-38.

The SEC is tricking everyone into believing that "polls" are infallible.

Is it even worth making a list of higher-ranked conference runner-ups who beat a lower ranked conference champ in a bowl game?

Can we just pretend I made that list, and move on?
06-02-2012 08:20 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 08:17 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

Because the higher ranked team in the final poll is always better.

That’s why #4 Alabama smoked #6 Utah in 2008.
And why #3 Cincinnati smoked #5 Florida in 2009.
And why #8 Michigan State smoked #16 Alabama in 2010.
And why #1 Ohio State was back-to-back national champs in 2006 and 2007.

No, wait. I have that wrong. The top seeds lost 31-17, 51-24, and 49-7. OSU lost by a combined score of 79-38.

The SEC is tricking everyone into believing that "polls" are infallible.

On one level, i think you misunderstand the purpose of a poll. It is not to predict who will win a future game, but to determine who has had the best season up until that point in time. Those are not necessarily the same thing. And as John Bragg noted, for every example you gave of a lower-ranked team beating a higher-ranked team in a bowl game, I could give an example of a team that didn't win its conference beating a team that did win its conference in a bowl game.

That said, I don't think anyone believes polls are infallible, or even mostly accurate. But even the B1G approach relies on polls, it wants the highest-ranked conference champions.

Only difference between SEC and B1G approaches is that whereas the SEC uses the poll ranking regardless of conference champ status, the B1G uses the polls to distinguish among conference champs. Using conference champ status seems arbitrary, since conferences are far from equal in any meaningful sense.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 08:48 AM by quo vadis.)
06-02-2012 08:37 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
johnbragg, you don't have to make the list. :) Call your mother with the extra time I save you. She misses you.

Seriously though, MY point is that if you use past polls...I'd rather see conference champ #5 Wiscy over #4 non-champ Stanford in 2010, CC #5 Oregon over #4 nonCC Stanford in 2011...CC #5 USC over #3 nonCC Texas and 4 nonCC Alabama. I'd rather have diversity when appropriate. #5 or #6 over #4 nonCC is "appropriate" to me.

This debate is fueled by the SEC's current belief that their top 4 teams are better than anyone else in the country...and their belief that the poll will reflect that (which it MAY, because they keep winning the darn crystal ball.)
06-02-2012 08:43 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 08:17 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:33 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Read: Not necessarily in the best interests of SEC.
Bottom line is: if The SEC is against it, it would benefit the rest of college football. (That rule applies to anything that the SEC opposes.)

The SEC, like any other conference, looks out for what it thinks is its best interest. But in this case they are correct, there is no rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a higher-ranked team that didn't win its conference.

I think there is rational basis for favoring a conference champ over a runner-up.
1. Conference championships should be worth some kind of bonus.
2. Giving conference champions a bump spreads participation out around the country, which is worth something.
3. Politically, I think the other conferences want an unfair advantage for their conference champs over an SEC or Big 12 runner-up, so some guarantee for conference champs will be needed to get any Final Four passed.

All that said, none of those arguments are as important as the perceived damage of having a #2 or even #1 ranked team screwed out of the playoffs.

So I think Delany's plan works okay. CC's if they're ranked in the top six, otherwise start taking top-ranekd runnerups.

That would have put Alabama in in 2011, and put Oregon over Stanford.

Say there had been conference champs at #5 and #6--say Houston and Virginia Tech win their CCG's, so you have 4 CC's in the top 6. There would have been protests from Alabama fans, but not much support from anyone else, since Alabama had their shot at LSU and lost at home. The difference between a one-loss #2 and a one-loss #5 Virginia Tech would be manageable enough to leave Alabama out.

I agree with your earlier statement that leaving out a #1 or #2 team is not acceptable, so how could you agree with a top-6 conference champ system that would have kept #2 Alabama out?

Let's face it: a playoff system that leaves #1 or #2 out will just not have much perceived legitimacy.

I just don't see why there should be a "bonus" for being a conference champ. Conference championships are, by definition, regional affairs. It is completely plausible that a runner-up in one conference could be more worthy of a playoff berth than a winner of another conference. My goodness, just compare the Big East champ to the second best SEC team almost any year.
06-02-2012 08:46 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Mike Slive: Plus-one 'not necessarily in the best interests' of college football
(06-02-2012 08:43 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  johnbragg, you don't have to make the list. :) Call your mother with the extra time I save you. She misses you.

Seriously though, MY point is that if you use past polls...I'd rather see conference champ #5 Wiscy over #4 non-champ Stanford in 2010, CC #5 Oregon over #4 nonCC Stanford in 2011...CC #5 USC over #3 nonCC Texas and 4 nonCC Alabama. I'd rather have diversity when appropriate. #5 or #6 over #4 nonCC is "appropriate" to me.

I'm okay with all of that, using a CC as a sort of "tie-breaker" when it's close, and #3-6 are almost always close. I think Delany took a lot of steam out of the objections to conference-champs-only by limiting it to top 6.

Quote:This debate is fueled by the SEC's current belief that their top 4 teams are better than anyone else in the country...and their belief that the poll will reflect that (which it MAY, because they keep winning the darn crystal ball.)

The SEC knows they'll be outvoted on this, so I wonder what their real endgame is, what their fallback is. Maybe protecting one "wildcard" spot under a top 3-champs-and-one-wildcard? That should put 2 SEC teams in the top 4 most years.
06-02-2012 08:54 AM
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