(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

(04-24-2012 01:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  So getting back on point-

1- Who do you add if only UL leaves?

2- UL and RU leave?

3- UL, RU, UConn, and USF?

This assumes no league above the be falling apart.

In the vacuum you suggest:

1-Alabama

2-Michigan and OSU

3-Princeton, Columbia, Emory, and FIU

(04-24-2012 01:51 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  So getting back on point-

1- Who do you add if only UL leaves?

2- UL and RU leave?

3- UL, RU, UConn, and USF?

This assumes no league above the be falling apart.

Well these could be very convoluted scenarios....but the simple answer would be.

1. Add AFA and Fresno State (football only) (14/17)

2. Add AFA, Fresno St and (pick one of) ECU, USM, SJSU, CSU, ect.

3. Add AFA, Fresno St, ECU and USM.

(04-24-2012 01:59 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  Not even touching upon the possibility of Texas and Oklahoma leaving for the SEC?? That's when it'll get really interesting, because then the Big12 will look to gut the Big East. Louisville and Cincy would come first, then BSU and AFA probably, then UConn and Rutgers. That's 14 and looking for 2 more. The Big East, at that point, is becoming "C-USA 4" by backfilling from C-USA and MWC.

SEC does not want OSU. OU can't leave OSU. It's a non starter.

UT has rejected the SEC more times than ND has rejected the Big Ten.

Not worried about the SEC grabbing either.

If I was the Big East Commissioner I would be pushing the Presidents to realize that waiting and letting the majors work themselves out leaves with the best possible situation without much opportunity cost at all.

If no drastic moves are made then you really don't lose anything by waiting but if major moves are made up above, the Big East is well situation to be the safety net.

(04-24-2012 01:20 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  I have three scenarios for debate. In each who does BE football likely take to get back to 12, 14, or 16? Who is fb only and who is all sports?

CASE 1: Louisville leaves for Big 12

Do you stay at 12 or add 2 or 4?

CASE 2: Same but with Rutgers as well.


CASE 3: Big 12 succeeds in the unlikely ACC raid. UL, Rutgers, UConn, and USF are raided away in the resulting dominoes. What do you do?

Curious to see the thoughts of the board. I could see a lot of strategies.

Case 1: Stay as-is.
Case 2: Add ECU or Rice
Case 3: In this case, it's up to Notre Dame. Whatever they want to do will happen. They have three choices:

1) ND stays indy in football and keeps the BE together. BE football either makes a minimal expansion (ECU and Fresno) or stays as an 8-team conference.
2) ND breaks up the BE. This could happen one of three ways
2a) ND leads the BE Catholics out of the BE and adds Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, SLU, GMU, and VCU.
2b) ND leaves the BE by going to the B12 for basketball. Texas rejoices
2c) ND's administration says f* the alums and throws in the towel on independence, joining the ACC.

Either way, with #2, the BE breaks in three, with the Catholic schools adding Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, SLU, GMU, and VCU. The football schools split, and the Alliance splits, forming MWC 2.0 and C-USA 3.0

My guess is 2a. Either way, UC is screwed in Case 3.

CASE 1: Louisville leaves for Big 12. Do you stay at 12 or add 2 or 4?

You add two, Fresno State and Air Force.

CASE 2: Same but with Rutgers as well.

You add three, Fresno State, Air Force and East Carolina.

CASE 3: Big 12 succeeds in the unlikely ACC raid. UL, Rutgers, UConn, and USF are raided away in the resulting dominoes. What do you do?

First this is assumming that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12 with Rutgers and Louisville. So the ACC adds UConn and South Florida. The Big East would be at 9 teams. You Fresno State, Air Force and East Carolina to get to 12.

If the BE loses UL, then I sincerely believe that the BE will walk away from BCS football. If the collection of SMU, UH, UCF, Memphis, USF and UC couldn't garner big paydays for CUSA back in the early 2000s, then why would people expect anything to be different by merely changing the name of the conference? At some point the leadership of the BE would decide that enough is enough. The basketball side of the conference will not be willing to swap out any more old members for new all sports members that will, in likelihood, water down the BE basketball brand.

IMO, the loss of UL or UL and Rutgers would be the death knell of BE football.

(04-24-2012 05:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If the BE loses UL, then I sincerely believe that the BE will walk away from BCS football. If the collection of SMU, UH, UCF, Memphis, USF and UC couldn't garner big paydays for CUSA back in the early 2000s, then why would people expect anything to be different by merely changing the name of the conference? At some point the leadership of the BE would decide that enough is enough. The basketball side of the conference will not be willing to swap out any more old members for new all sports members that will, in likelihood, water down the BE basketball brand.

IMO, the loss of UL or UL and Rutgers would be the death knell of BE football.

You may have missed the news of the Big East picking up Memphis and Temple. In my opinion, based on math, one of the reasons they were brought in was as insurance against Louisville and Rutgers or Cincinatti leaving. The Big East football conference would have Memphis, Temple, Connecticut, Rutgers/Cincinatti, USF, UCF, Houston and SMU, meeting the requirement for 8 all-sports members and probably also Boise State and San Diego State.

(04-24-2012 03:08 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  CASE 1: Louisville leaves for Big 12. Do you stay at 12 or add 2 or 4?

You add two, Fresno State and Air Force.

CASE 2: Same but with Rutgers as well.

You add three, Fresno State, Air Force and East Carolina.

CASE 3: Big 12 succeeds in the unlikely ACC raid. UL, Rutgers, UConn, and USF are raided away in the resulting dominoes. What do you do?

First this is assumming that FSU and Clemson go to the Big 12 with Rutgers and Louisville. So the ACC adds UConn and South Florida. The Big East would be at 9 teams. You Fresno State, Air Force and East Carolina to get to 12.

No

(04-24-2012 06:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 05:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If the BE loses UL, then I sincerely believe that the BE will walk away from BCS football. If the collection of SMU, UH, UCF, Memphis, USF and UC couldn't garner big paydays for CUSA back in the early 2000s, then why would people expect anything to be different by merely changing the name of the conference? At some point the leadership of the BE would decide that enough is enough. The basketball side of the conference will not be willing to swap out any more old members for new all sports members that will, in likelihood, water down the BE basketball brand.

IMO, the loss of UL or UL and Rutgers would be the death knell of BE football.

You may have missed the news of the Big East picking up Memphis and Temple. In my opinion, based on math, one of the reasons they were brought in was as insurance against Louisville and Rutgers or Cincinatti leaving. The Big East football conference would have Memphis, Temple, Connecticut, Rutgers/Cincinatti, USF, UCF, Houston and SMU, meeting the requirement for 8 all-sports members and probably also Boise State and San Diego State.

My thoughts are not based on the number of schools. I'm more concerned with who the schools are. If I was a president of one of the BE BB blueblood schools, I'd be hitting my limit on the inability of the FB side to maintain members - especially members that contribute to the BB side of the conference. From a BB perspective, not every replacement/addition will have the BB quality of a Memphis.

(04-24-2012 06:21 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 06:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 05:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If the BE loses UL, then I sincerely believe that the BE will walk away from BCS football. If the collection of SMU, UH, UCF, Memphis, USF and UC couldn't garner big paydays for CUSA back in the early 2000s, then why would people expect anything to be different by merely changing the name of the conference? At some point the leadership of the BE would decide that enough is enough. The basketball side of the conference will not be willing to swap out any more old members for new all sports members that will, in likelihood, water down the BE basketball brand.

IMO, the loss of UL or UL and Rutgers would be the death knell of BE football.

You may have missed the news of the Big East picking up Memphis and Temple. In my opinion, based on math, one of the reasons they were brought in was as insurance against Louisville and Rutgers or Cincinatti leaving. The Big East football conference would have Memphis, Temple, Connecticut, Rutgers/Cincinatti, USF, UCF, Houston and SMU, meeting the requirement for 8 all-sports members and probably also Boise State and San Diego State.

My thoughts are not based on the number of schools. I'm more concerned with who the schools are. If I was a president of one of the BE BB blueblood schools, I'd be hitting my limit on the inability of the FB side to maintain members - especially members that contribute to the BB side of the conference. From a BB perspective, not every replacement/addition will have the BB quality of a Memphis.

But there don't need to be any more additions. The idea of a split was buried, at least for a few years, when we admitted Temple.

I had favored a split since 1991. But since all the schools WVU had originally associated with are either in, or headed to the ACC, with the exception of Rutgers and Temple, and WVU will officially change conferences in a little over 2 months, I could care less...

It's way too late anyway. The BEast has already lost all the major eastern independents...

(04-24-2012 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If Big 12 succeeds in the ACC raid, all bets are off. If ACC loses 3-4 teams to the Big 12, it's open season on the ACC by the Big Ten and SEC. SEC likely gets Va Tech and 1 Carolina School. Big Ten gets into the act as well. The Big East could get a chance at the leftovers.

If Big 12 gets Louisville, I think you see 2 fb only adds out west. Air Force and Fresno St favorites.

If Big 12 gets Rutgers as well- I think Southern Miss is added all sports in addition.

Unless we go on some BCS-busting, Boise/TCU type winning streak, I seriously doubt we are that high up on the Big East's list. We don't have the market to be the least bit attractive to them.[/b]

(04-25-2012 02:07 AM)Big Dub Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If Big 12 succeeds in the ACC raid, all bets are off. If ACC loses 3-4 teams to the Big 12, it's open season on the ACC by the Big Ten and SEC. SEC likely gets Va Tech and 1 Carolina School. Big Ten gets into the act as well. The Big East could get a chance at the leftovers.

If Big 12 gets Louisville, I think you see 2 fb only adds out west. Air Force and Fresno St favorites.

If Big 12 gets Rutgers as well- I think Southern Miss is added all sports in addition.

Unless we go on some BCS-busting, Boise/TCU type winning streak, I seriously doubt we are that high up on the Big East's list. We don't have the market to be the least bit attractive to them.[/b]

I agree, I do not think we fit what the Big East is looking for which is markets markets and more markets. I don't even think a boise st type run would even get us in. What frustrates me is reading some of these posters come on here and say we would get destroyed in all sports if we joined, how can you make that kind of statement when we own winning records over most of the Big East, not trying to start anything just getting tired of reading soon to be former conference mates treat us like we are a glorified Fcs school when we dominated them on the field. I can't tell if these people are delusional or just looking to start trouble. You want to say Usm is not Big East material because of markets then fine I will agree with that but if you think we would not compete in all sports then you are fooling yourself. I shouldn't even have to point that out our reputation should speak for itself.

(04-24-2012 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

The only way ND is extended ACC membership is in all sports. The only thing ND has of value is football.

(04-25-2012 07:24 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

The only way ND is extended ACC membership is in all sports. The only thing ND has of value is football.

What self-respecting conference would allow a partial member to exist allowing said school to make a considerable amount of money while the rest of the conference suffers with problems of finances, image, stability, and credibility?

(04-25-2012 07:26 AM)EerMeNow Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:24 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

The only way ND is extended ACC membership is in all sports. The only thing ND has of value is football.

What self-respecting conference would allow a partial member to exist allowing said school to make a considerable amount of money while the rest of the conference suffers with problems of finances, image, stability, and credibility?

Why, I have no clue...

(04-25-2012 07:26 AM)EerMeNow Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:24 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

The only way ND is extended ACC membership is in all sports. The only thing ND has of value is football.

What self-respecting conference would allow a partial member to exist allowing said school to make a considerable amount of money while the rest of the conference suffers with problems of finances, image, stability, and credibility?

Don't know about any self-respecting conferences but......

(04-25-2012 07:24 AM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  But again.........what about ND?

I'll say it again: If it ever gets to the point where Notre Dame is ready to leave the BE but not ready to give up football independence, the smart deal for both ND and the ACC is a deal that adds ND and Georgetown to the ACC, with the ACC keeping the same 14-team lineup for football.

The only way ND is extended ACC membership is in all sports. The only thing ND has of value is football.

And Ice Hockey if the ACC ever decides to form a conference for that. BC is one of the best hockey programs in the country and an ACC member