(02-22-2012 12:50 PM)OwlFamily Wrote:  I dont think I can handle another name crisis in the Sun Belt.

So IF Appy gets invited who do we call ASU without one or the other getting thier panties in a wad?

I'm gonna pre-emptive stirke on this and refer to the each as stAte and Appy from now on. My ulcer cant handle any more name threads.

App, Appy, App State, whatever floats your boat. As long as the full name is pronounced "App-uh-latch-un", no problems from this corner of the world.

Anything but "App-uh-LAY-shun" is cool!

(02-22-2012 11:55 AM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:48 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  I told y'all this day was coming.

The best fit for the Sun Belt would be GA State, UNC Charlotte and App State. We should also invite UTSA immediately. That puts Sun Belt games every Saturday in Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Dallas, Mobile and Ft. Lauderdale. I still think FIU will get an invite from CUSA.

I can see CUSA picking up FIU and UTSA.

I can't tell you how wrong I think you are. Ga State and Charlotte are both in desirable markets. Shortly after we admit them to the FBS club they will move on to a richer conference before they could have any appreciable positive impact on the SBC bottom line. And then we've elevated to programs from a lower level to a perceived higher level, making our own programs struggles for recruits, media coverage and money that much more difficult. An invitation to either of those is short-sighted and bound to negatively affect the eastern Sun Belt members in the future.
Benson has it right that FBS programs have got to be the top target.
FCS only when needed and then choose high-performers in smaller markets over low-performers in large ones.

No, not short sighted my man, it is just the reality the situation. We will just have to up our game to keep the membership. Don't act out of fear. I for one think that these schools will elevate everyone in the Sun Belt.

The reality is that there are several FBS and soon-to-be FBS programs that will probably be available. Those are the the best programs to elevate the conference.
Agreed, don't act out of fear. Just don't make dumb, knee-jerk decisions because of a possible short term gain. You have to consider the long-term losses.

(02-22-2012 01:05 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:44 PM)panama Wrote:  Well you better call Karl and block us and tell the Presidents to stop meeting in our city.

If Karl is worth the money he's being paid he doesn't need me to tell him something so obvious.
I hardly think a choice of meeting place means much in terms of invitations. The SEC and the SBC both meet annually near my hometown in Destin, FL but I doubt that signals an offer is forthcomng for Northwest Florida State College (formerly Okaloosa-Walton Junior College to us Panhandle veterans).

Maybe if they were a Top 10 DMA

jk

(02-22-2012 02:11 PM)panama Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 01:05 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:44 PM)panama Wrote:  Well you better call Karl and block us and tell the Presidents to stop meeting in our city.

If Karl is worth the money he's being paid he doesn't need me to tell him something so obvious.
I hardly think a choice of meeting place means much in terms of invitations. The SEC and the SBC both meet annually near my hometown in Destin, FL but I doubt that signals an offer is forthcomng for Northwest Florida State College (formerly Okaloosa-Walton Junior College to us Panhandle veterans).

Maybe if they were a Top 10 DMA

jk

Not as many TVs as Atlanta but a much better view.

(02-22-2012 03:23 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 02:11 PM)panama Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 01:05 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:44 PM)panama Wrote:  Well you better call Karl and block us and tell the Presidents to stop meeting in our city.

If Karl is worth the money he's being paid he doesn't need me to tell him something so obvious.
I hardly think a choice of meeting place means much in terms of invitations. The SEC and the SBC both meet annually near my hometown in Destin, FL but I doubt that signals an offer is forthcomng for Northwest Florida State College (formerly Okaloosa-Walton Junior College to us Panhandle veterans).

Maybe if they were a Top 10 DMA

jk

Not as many TVs as Atlanta but a much better view.

I grew up in Panama City, Panama so you have to go pretty far to impress with a view.

At any rate, Temple leaving to the BEast likely has moved us up another spot in line. Has been a great week so far.

(02-22-2012 03:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 03:23 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 02:11 PM)panama Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 01:05 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:44 PM)panama Wrote:  Well you better call Karl and block us and tell the Presidents to stop meeting in our city.

If Karl is worth the money he's being paid he doesn't need me to tell him something so obvious.
I hardly think a choice of meeting place means much in terms of invitations. The SEC and the SBC both meet annually near my hometown in Destin, FL but I doubt that signals an offer is forthcomng for Northwest Florida State College (formerly Okaloosa-Walton Junior College to us Panhandle veterans).

Maybe if they were a Top 10 DMA

jk

Not as many TVs as Atlanta but a much better view.

I grew up in Panama City, Panama so you have to go pretty far to impress with a view.

At any rate, Temple leaving to the BEast likely has moved us up another spot in line. Has been a great week so far.

I'll put my view growing up in Fort Walton Beach, Florida against any other beach vista and win. And it's not all about white sand.....
Interesting week for sure. I'm glad there was a little actual news today instead of more endless speculation.

(02-22-2012 08:31 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  With respect to the Sun Belt's reputation it is imperative that we only invite FBS members. We can not afford to be looked at as incubator for 1AA schools. I see no need to expand membership past 12 and if we do lose a few schools to the alliance than they need to be replaced with D1 schools if at all possible La Tech, New Mexico State, UAB, etc.. 1AA schools should be a last resort option only.

I find this an interesting comment considering every school in the Sun Belt was 1-aa at one time.

(02-22-2012 10:10 AM)TrojanNation Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:57 AM)Glassonion Wrote:  In all reality that view point is misguided. App State had 3 players go in the draft last year. Two more will go this year. There are 4 guys from our 2007 team in the NFL, and two defensive ends from our 2005 team. There are many FBS teams that dont produce that kind of talent. With a full scholarship allotment, App football would only improve. We'd already be top two in attendence, and Appalachian State name is well known in college football. It all depends on which team you pick.

You are FCS. FBS talent gets in trouble or just doesnt like the institution they are currently enrolled in. Transfer to a FBS school? You have to sit out a year. So what do you do? You transfer to a FCS school and play immediately. Which school do you want to go to? Probably the best (national perception wise) football program in FCS- App St.

Don't get me wrong- Troy has gotten plenty of Big 6 transfers... but it is a lot harder sell because you have to sit out a year.

It is like saying UNA/Jacksonville St. put out big time athletes. They do, but it is because they were top recruits coming out of highschool and got in trouble and wanted to play immediately.

Once you begin to transition to FBS those transfers will dry up very quickly. Ask USA...

Now I am all for App St... but lets look at it realistically. Once your turn FBS you are going to have to recruit straight up against other FBS programs in your region.

I might be way off on my assessment of all the guys you have in the NFL/going to the NFL... how many of them were at App St from signing day as a senior in highschool?

It is a rarity for ASU to bring in FBS transfers. This year was an exception as we signed a RB from WKU (we originally recruited) and a DE from AF.

(02-22-2012 08:12 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:31 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  With respect to the Sun Belt's reputation it is imperative that we only invite FBS members. We can not afford to be looked at as incubator for 1AA schools. I see no need to expand membership past 12 and if we do lose a few schools to the alliance than they need to be replaced with D1 schools if at all possible La Tech, New Mexico State, UAB, etc.. 1AA schools should be a last resort option only.

I find this an interesting comment considering every school in the Sun Belt was 1-aa at one time.

Not every one. UL is a charter member of the CFA, which led to the 1-a /1-aa split. Since the split the Cajuns have always been 1-a.

One thing to keep in mind about App State (please, please, please no Appy State!) is the school is located in a resort area. Eighty % of our fans live over an hour away in the Winston Salem / Greensboro, Charlotte, Hickory or Asheville areas and everywhere in between. The games start at 3:30 in order to give fans an opportunity to make ti up the mountain and tailgate, but the remot location hurts basketball attendance. We spent over $60 million on facilities the past 5 years and I'm they stack up well against most in the Sun Belt. Yes we need to add more seats to the stadium and the administration has said that will happen once a conference gives us an invite.

(02-22-2012 08:22 PM)Vobserver Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:12 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:31 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  With respect to the Sun Belt's reputation it is imperative that we only invite FBS members. We can not afford to be looked at as incubator for 1AA schools. I see no need to expand membership past 12 and if we do lose a few schools to the alliance than they need to be replaced with D1 schools if at all possible La Tech, New Mexico State, UAB, etc.. 1AA schools should be a last resort option only.

I find this an interesting comment considering every school in the Sun Belt was 1-aa at one time.

Not every one. UL is a charter member of the CFA, which led to the 1-a /1-aa split. Since the split the Cajuns have always been 1-a.

I forgot about those guys, but it doesn't change the point. Eight of nine programs came from the 1-aa ranks.

(02-22-2012 08:12 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:31 AM)MT FAN Wrote:  With respect to the Sun Belt's reputation it is imperative that we only invite FBS members. We can not afford to be looked at as incubator for 1AA schools. I see no need to expand membership past 12 and if we do lose a few schools to the alliance than they need to be replaced with D1 schools if at all possible La Tech, New Mexico State, UAB, etc.. 1AA schools should be a last resort option only.

I find this an interesting comment considering every school in the Sun Belt was 1-aa at one time.

What is your point? Just because many of the schools were 1AA doesn't mean we want to add more. Our conference has been fighting hard for ten years to improve our image and get away from the perception that we are a glorified 1AA conference. We have improved our perception a lot since then the last thing we need to do is to add a bunch of 1AA schools again to hurt it.

Official Butthurt Thread

Wow

I am sure whatever happens will work out

I agree we dont need to bring in a bunch of 1-AA programs, but App State is different.

Logic has left the building. It is now about "I like them". I wonder what the Presidents and Karl are thinking.

(02-23-2012 08:58 AM)panama Wrote:  Logic has left the building. It is now about "I like them". I wonder what the Presidents and Karl are thinking.

Heck if you come to Troy you could probably ask Dr. Hawkins himself he's known to mingle with us common folk quite often lol. But actually they are probably having similar scenarios.

It's not that teams like Georgia State would be a bad idea. It's that it is a bad time to add a team like Georgia State because you have this mega alliance expanding to good who knows how many teams and the only thing need to join is being in a big city. By all means if Georgia State join, won the conference five straight times, put players in pro leagues as starters, and is gunning for conference titles in multiple sports like Troy has then by all means we would all be happy for you guys to move up.

But if you guys join go 6-6 then 7-6 and conference USA invites you because they lost out on Temple then it leaves us in a hole because we then will have to invite another team and start all over again with it's growing pains.

(02-23-2012 08:58 AM)panama Wrote:  Logic has left the building. It is now about "I like them". I wonder what the Presidents and Karl are thinking.

Just because the reasoning results in a conclusion you don't like doesn't mean it's illogical.
I think Panther fans can look at my viewpoint as a victory of sorts. After two years of hearing you guys extoll the virtues of the Atlanta market, regardless of team performance or actual market penetration, you've finally turned me around. I now agree that being in Atlanta is a such a valuable commodity that Ga State will be a wanted program once they've advanced to FBS.
With that in mind, I simply tried to predict what the logical course of events would be. The most likely scenario is the one I described where Ga State comes in and adds little if any value at first. After a couple of years, when the transition to FBS is complete and the football program may be starting to get it's legs under it a little, it seems extremely likely that one of the other conferences will come in and make a play for them - basically reaping the rewards the SBC made happen.
To repeat, I'm not advocating the addition of any FCS teams unless necessary, but if App State were given an invitation, their market would work against them. The only way they be able to move up is with a Boise State-like run of success that would benefit the whole conference.
I'm not saying that Ga State should never be given an invitation to the SBC, but only under one of these circumstances:

1) The SBC has advanced to a point where they are equal to or greater than the Alliance and therefore retaining Ga State seems reasonable.

2) Ga State agrees to a large buyout for an extended period of time.

3) The SBC is raided so severely that FCS schools are needed for survival.

Um...wasnt referring to anything you said in particular but ooookay. As for your criteria for an invite, I am betting that an invite comes without any of those 3 criteria. This has all accelerated to a pace that decisions that will be made will be based on cold hard figures. The Alliance is chasing BE and SBC is chasing the Alliance. But by chasing what they really mean in dollars. Just wondering as I dont know, was there the same hand wringing a decade ago when the FIUs and FAUs moved up? It seems like more of the same. Part of the problem is that everyone is waiting for a perfect conference that does not exist. SEC folks STILL (I hear this ALL the time) complain about Arkansas in the SEC and that has now been 20 years ago. Ultimately I have to believe that Benson will do what is best for SBC as a whole and I think criteria #1; that being equal or greater than the Alliance. The Alliance is aware of this especially in view of losing Temple. So in a very real sense the SBC and Alliance will be in competition for many of the same schools, even the FCS ones.

To answer your question, FIU and FAU were from the days when the SBC was getting off the ground. FIU had to accelerate their program faster than they wanted to get the SBC to the required eight teams and become a viable football conference.
I think Benson and the presidents will move judiciously and they will not jump into decisions without considering the long term ramifications. Creating another southeastern FBS program that would probably jump conferences and therefore add more competition for resources for it's member schools will certainly be discussed.