I'm not sure if these have been addressed, I didn't see them but just curious if someone knows the answers.
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1. In regards to the bad spot on the 4th down play by NIU (very poor spot by the way). They stated it was not reviewable but in the ASU - WKU game the play where Jakes apparently made the first down, the spot, was changed after a review?
2. The one kick off the NIU kick returner touched the ball then went into the end zone and tried to run it out and was tackled. Why was this not a safety? It was ruled a touch back.
3. When the ASU player ran into the kicker, who did a nice job of selling the penalty, shouldn't it have been running into the kicker as apposed to roughing the kicker? There are both rules in college football, maybe not?
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Just curious. I'm not sure that NIU fans have any idea how much losing Frampton hurt by the way. I doubt he would've dropped that one punt.
1. Spot is reviewable See Rule 12.3.3(e). Officials flat blew that.
2. Muff that carries into end zone is a touchback. Weird rule but it's in the book. Odd part was refs got right result for wrong reason declaring ball had not been touched.
3. Blocked into kicker can still be roughing as long as block was legal.
(01-09-2012 11:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote: 1. Spot is reviewable See Rule 12.3.3(e). Officials flat blew that.
2. Muff that carries into end zone is a touchback. Weird rule but it's in the book. Odd part was refs got right result for wrong reason declaring ball had not been touched.
3. Blocked into kicker can still be roughing as long as block was legal.
#1.) Changed the game, but I still think NIU wins because they outplayed stAte 3 of 4 qtrs. Momentum switched but stAte has to have more discipline, and mental toughness than to lay down after an unfortunite play.
#3.)
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2012 12:05 AM by UofToledoFans.)
Its not like us to lay down like that. The coaching staff were coaching their last games here after years, and I dont think even there heads were in it. One of our recievers mother gets murdered before the game by his father and has to leave. Our top reciever and the guy we gameplan for offensively tears his MCL early
If Freeze was coaching...that stuff can be overcome. But our coaches just had no experience in dealing with such a thing.
Framp being hurt was the beginning of the end. His backup fumbled the punt . . . he was our best WR and our first down maker. He was clutch and a badass.
Most of all he was our emotional leader on offense. He was our confidence/bravado.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2012 12:15 AM by WinstonTheWolf.)
(01-09-2012 11:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote: 1. Spot is reviewable See Rule 12.3.3(e). Officials flat blew that.
2. Muff that carries into end zone is a touchback. Weird rule but it's in the book. Odd part was refs got right result for wrong reason declaring ball had not been touched.
3. Blocked into kicker can still be roughing as long as block was legal.
#1.) Changed the game, but I still think NIU wins because they outplayed stAte 3 of 4 qtrs. Momentum switched but stAte has to have more discipline, and mental toughness than to lay down after an unfortunite play.
#3.)
An illegal block and no foul or at worst it was running into the kicker. Absolutely no way it was roughing.
I don't think NIU or Toledo fan has any idea how much the injuries affected this game. ASU shut down the NIU rushing attack.
ASU top 5 WRs:
Frampton- Torn MCL in first half.
Stockemer- Dominated the defense.
Muse- Injured. DNP. 6'4"
Jarboe- Injures shoulder. Continued to play but wasn't effective.
Fleming- His mother was murdered by his father (allegedly) the morning of the game. DNP.
The targets available to Aplin were mostly small guys who played little this year.
Refs sucked and coaching change hurt but injuries were the big difference. That was a big reason the game changed in the second half.
And apparently Hiller was told that morning he would not be retained. So you've entrusted part of your offense to a guy who a few hours earlier learned he was out of work.
(01-10-2012 09:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote: And apparently Hiller was told that morning he would not be retained. So you've entrusted part of your offense to a guy who a few hours earlier learned he was out of work.
Yep, and he was not a happy camper.
He does have an opportunity to join Freeze at Ole Miss but would not have coaching responsibilities. Think he wants to coach if at all possible.
(01-10-2012 09:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote: And apparently Hiller was told that morning he would not be retained. So you've entrusted part of your offense to a guy who a few hours earlier learned he was out of work.
Someone thought it was a good idea to pass that along right then?
(01-10-2012 09:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote: And apparently Hiller was told that morning he would not be retained. So you've entrusted part of your offense to a guy who a few hours earlier learned he was out of work.
Someone thought it was a good idea to pass that along right then?
If anyone did any thinking they are not very good at it.
(01-10-2012 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote: Apparently for some reason they felt compelled to announce the hiring of JB Grimes and since it is the same position...
He knew for some time that he probably would not be back, but it still a shock when it happens. It also effects his players, who were also not happy campers.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2012 11:25 AM by Seminole Indian.)
(01-09-2012 11:32 PM)arkstfan Wrote: 1. Spot is reviewable See Rule 12.3.3(e). Officials flat blew that.
2. Muff that carries into end zone is a touchback. Weird rule but it's in the book. Odd part was refs got right result for wrong reason declaring ball had not been touched.
3. Blocked into kicker can still be roughing as long as block was legal.
#1.) Changed the game, but I still think NIU wins because they outplayed stAte 3 of 4 qtrs. Momentum switched but stAte has to have more discipline, and mental toughness than to lay down after an unfortunite play.
#3.)
An illegal block and no foul or at worst it was running into the kicker. Absolutely no way it was roughing.
I don't think NIU or Toledo fan has any idea how much the injuries affected this game. ASU shut down the NIU rushing attack.
ASU top 5 WRs:
Frampton- Torn MCL in first half.
Stockemer- Dominated the defense.
Muse- Injured. DNP. 6'4"
Jarboe- Injures shoulder. Continued to play but wasn't effective.
Fleming- His mother was murdered by his father (allegedly) the morning of the game. DNP.
The targets available to Aplin were mostly small guys who played little this year.
Refs sucked and coaching change hurt but injuries were the big difference. That was a big reason the game changed in the second half.
One difference for NIU with Harnish in there, NIU could still win with the passing game, even if a team shut down the running game. I'm sure losing Frampton hurt a lot though. Pretty sure ASU will continue to be good and they'll be back in a bowl game soon without all the side issues that just kind of added up.
(01-10-2012 12:00 PM)NIU007 Wrote: One difference for NIU with Harnish in there, NIU could still win with the passing game, even if a team shut down the running game. I'm sure losing Frampton hurt a lot though. Pretty sure ASU will continue to be good and they'll be back in a bowl game soon without all the side issues that just kind of added up.
There was not one single "this happens, therefore you lose" thing. Just a lot of stuff added together. Reverse any one or two of them, maybe we get the shoot-out game.
If ASU gets the review they were entitled to, doesn't mean the video supports it. Even if the call is overturned, doesn't mean we don't fumble or throw a pick the next play and have an even worse momentum change.
The five weeks leading up to the game were the worst possible weeks if your goal is winning that game. But in building a program, I'll take the downsides of it for what has happened has left us with a far better program than we had before.
Ok. I will bore you with my official speak and explain the kick. A kick remains a kick until it is possessed. Touching of the ball by a receiver is considered a muff. That touching does not put a new force on the ball (no matter what it looks like) and therefore remains a kick. When a player then gains possession of the ball in the endzone the kick ends. Since the force that put the ball into the endzone was a kick, no safety can result and the result of the player being downed there (by force or volunteer) is a touchback.
(01-10-2012 03:39 PM)InjunJohn Wrote: Ok. I will bore you with my official speak and explain the kick. A kick remains a kick until it is possessed. Touching of the ball by a receiver is considered a muff. That touching does not put a new force on the ball (no matter what it looks like) and therefore remains a kick. When a player then gains possession of the ball in the endzone the kick ends. Since the force that put the ball into the endzone was a kick, no safety can result and the result of the player being downed there (by force or volunteer) is a touchback.
Clear as mud?!
I won't get started on momentum.
Good enough for me...go get hired on as an SBC Football official. Can you do basketball too? Its a 1 question test How many players can a team have on the court at one time?
(01-10-2012 12:00 PM)NIU007 Wrote: One difference for NIU with Harnish in there, NIU could still win with the passing game, even if a team shut down the running game. I'm sure losing Frampton hurt a lot though. Pretty sure ASU will continue to be good and they'll be back in a bowl game soon without all the side issues that just kind of added up.
There was not one single "this happens, therefore you lose" thing. Just a lot of stuff added together. Reverse any one or two of them, maybe we get the shoot-out game.
If ASU gets the review they were entitled to, doesn't mean the video supports it. Even if the call is overturned, doesn't mean we don't fumble or throw a pick the next play and have an even worse momentum change.
The five weeks leading up to the game were the worst possible weeks if your goal is winning that game. But in building a program, I'll take the downsides of it for what has happened has left us with a far better program than we had before.
Hopefully Malzahn sticks around for a while (as I hope Doeren does) but probably not. This deal with coaches leaving before the bowl game - they need to do something about that, it's dysfunctional.
(01-10-2012 05:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote: Well he's familiar with the rule book. That rules out a job in the ACC.
Well, I did work a University of Virginia practice once. Say what you want about Al Groh, he brought in officials to work his practices. He had one of the lowest penalized teams in the nation. They didn't win many games but they were disciplined in that regard.
(01-10-2012 06:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote: Hopefully Malzahn sticks around for a while (as I hope Doeren does) but probably not. This deal with coaches leaving before the bowl game - they need to do something about that, it's dysfunctional.
Malzahn has spent most of his life in Arkansas or a short drive away from NW Arkansas except for his time at Auburn. I think there is a very limited set of schools he will consider unless ASU does something to make him mad. Other than Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and maybe Mizzou, Kansas and Kansas State no one can offer the proximity to home nor take advantage of the very Arkansas centric staff he is assembling.