Notre Dame will end up making a move in the next few years. The ACC,Big10,PAC12,and SEC will all be wanting more access to these bigger bowls games. They simply won't want to share access with Notre Dame.

(12-18-2011 07:47 PM)True Bearcat Wrote:  Why does Notre Dame clutch to their independence so dearly?

I have written about this many times.

ND tried to join the then Western Conference (now Big Ten) in the early 1920's, only to be blackballed by anti-Catholic bigots at Michigan and other schools there.

ND had no choice but to travel all over the country and play anyone, anywhere as an independent.

Knute Rockne had to "barnstorm" his team by railroad to Southern California, New York, Pittsburgh and other places.

That is how ND came to play Southern Cal and Navy every year since the '20's.

That is how the term "subway alumni" was invented. Catholic New Yorkers took the subway to watch ND play Army at old Yankee Stadium.

ND's national following and fan base largely occurred because ND was forced to play all over the country as an independent.

ND turned a negative (being turned down and blackballed) into a positive (11 national titles, 7 Heisman Trophy winners, etc...).

If you don't like ND's status, blame Michigan and the Big Ten. :)

Being a football independent is woven into ND's identity. It believes that it is the national Catholic university in the United States.

ND looks at its football program as the marketing arm of the university. It believes that job can be best done as an independent.

ND recruits nationally and wants to play a national schedule. It has played or will play "home" games in Yankee Stadium, at Cowboys Stadium, at Fed Ex Field in Washington, D. C. and the Alamo Dome in San Antonio, among others.

It opens its schedule next year in Dublin, Ireland (home game against Navy)and ends it in Los Angeles (away game against Southern Cal). It may schedule Hawaii as the 13th game next year.

It wants its alumni, fans and recruits to see it play live in the Northeast, the Southeast, the Southwest and on the West Coast.

That kind of national identity, recruiting reach, visibility and scheduling flexibility will be negatively impacted if ND joins a football conference.

ND has expressed concerns at being "regionalized" in a football conference, particularly the Big Ten.

It is a very, very emotional, identity issue with ND alumni. They react very violently and negatively at any suggestion that ND football join a conference.

(12-18-2011 10:05 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Out of all my friends who watch college football, I only know one Notre Dame fan. And even he only likes them as sort of a joke, he isn't very serious about it. Everyone else I know either cares about them as much as Ohio U (no offense to any Ohio fans, great win yesterday btw) or hates them. Just my two cents.

You don't live in the Northeast, Midwest or in California, do you?

ND is not real popular in the South. I live in Baton Rouge, so I know this for sure.

It sure seems funny that "nobody is an ND fan", yet they sell out their 80,000 seat stadium every home game (with many, many fans driving hundreds of miles or flying from all over the country), are about the only sellout (along with WVU) for Pitt at Heinz Field and fill stadiums wherever ND plays on the road or in bowls.

The Champs Sports Bowl just sold out for the first time in its history. It also is the first time ND played there. Florida State has played there several times before and never sold it out until ND was the opponent.

They are also the only individual school that has a nation wide over the air network televise all of its home games. NBC has been doing this for over 20 years. ND has been down and ratings have been down, but don't assume that this contract will disappear. Many ND fans are out there waiting for the team to be very good again. If the team improves, so will the ratings.

(12-18-2011 06:59 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  NBC will renew or someone else will sign the Irish.

ND will remain independent for football.

These articles and posts always are written and have been written over the years but ND remains a football independent.

Every year Notre Dame becomes, less and less relevant in the minds of teens. I know of one Notre Dame fan who is my age. The rest are over 40.

There are more young Duke and North Carolina fans here, than young Notre Dame fans.

I don't think they'll join a conference in the near future. However, if new generations aren't getting into Notre Dame football, nationwide, then they'll have to join a conference.

I have three children, six nephews and four grand nephews/nieces, all under forty. All are diehard ND fans. Same as it ever was.

We all travel a thousand miles or more to attend a home ND football game, at least every other season. No shortage of enthusiasm with any of them.

Terry, You can try and defend Notre Dame as much as you want. But the truth is the truth. Notre Dame has lost the vast amount of influence it once held. All due to not winning any kind of championship. Being out of the limelight will only keep hurting ND. Also, It's a sad day for Notre Dame when you have to brag about the Champs Sport bowl.

(12-18-2011 10:36 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 07:47 PM)True Bearcat Wrote:  Why does Notre Dame clutch to their independence so dearly?

I have written about this many times.

ND tried to join the then Western Conference (now Big Ten) in the early 1920's, only to be blackballed by anti-Catholic bigots at Michigan and other schools there.

ND had no choice but to travel all over the country and play anyone, anywhere as an independent.

Knute Rockne had to "barnstorm" his team by railroad to Southern California, New York, Pittsburgh and other places.

That is how ND came to play Southern Cal and Navy every year since the '20's.

That is how the term "subway alumni" was invented. Catholic New Yorkers took the subway to watch ND play Army at old Yankee Stadium.

ND's national following and fan base largely occurred because ND was forced to play all over the country as an independent.

ND turned a negative (being turned down and blackballed) into a positive (11 national titles, 7 Heisman Trophy winners, etc...).

If you don't like ND's status, blame Michigan and the Big Ten. :)

Being a football independent is woven into ND's identity. It believes that it is the national Catholic university in the United States.

ND looks at its football program as the marketing arm of the university. It believes that job can be best done as an independent.

ND recruits nationally and wants to play a national schedule. It has played or will play "home" games in Yankee Stadium, at Cowboys Stadium, at Fed Ex Field in Washington, D. C. and the Alamo Dome in San Antonio, among others.

It opens its schedule next year in Dublin, Ireland (home game against Navy)and ends it in Los Angeles (away game against Southern Cal). It may schedule Hawaii as the 13th game next year.

It wants its alumni, fans and recruits to see it play live in the Northeast, the Southeast, the Southwest and on the West Coast.

That kind of national identity, recruiting reach, visibility and scheduling flexibility will be negatively impacted if ND joins a football conference.

ND has expressed concerns at being "regionalized" in a football conference, particularly the Big Ten.

It is a very, very emotional, identity issue with ND alumni. They react very violently and negatively at any suggestion that ND football join a conference.

Appreciate the info Terry D... this is an informative piece. Thanks for posting it. I didnt realize the issues 90 years ago, although I am Irish and my name is McCarty, so I should have known.

Thanks Terry D. I know nothing about ND's independence, and never really cared either way if they were in a conference or independent until talks of UC's conference dissolving.

Growing up as a young Catholic of Irish descent and attending a Catholic school called St. Joseph's (And we were the Fighting Irish), I was always the only kid who hated Notre Dame.

In my part of NY the Irish are very popular with the older population but the younger generations are seeing themselves as ND fans less and less. I do believe the current lack of domination and the rise of national tv being able to show teams from other places more has had an effect on being ND fans.

(12-18-2011 10:46 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:59 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  NBC will renew or someone else will sign the Irish.

ND will remain independent for football.

These articles and posts always are written and have been written over the years but ND remains a football independent.

Every year Notre Dame becomes, less and less relevant in the minds of teens. I know of one Notre Dame fan who is my age. The rest are over 40.

There are more young Duke and North Carolina fans here, than young Notre Dame fans.

I don't think they'll join a conference in the near future. However, if new generations aren't getting into Notre Dame football, nationwide, then they'll have to join a conference.

I have three children, six nephews and four grand nephews/nieces, all under forty. All are diehard ND fans. Same as it ever was.

We all travel a thousand miles or more to attend a home ND football game, at least every other season. No shortage of enthusiasm with any of them.

I live in NYC and im under 40 and do not know any younger ND fans.

(12-18-2011 05:39 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 05:28 PM)EERSFAN Wrote:  Or like Syracuse begged the ACC for the past decade since the Orange were left at the altar for the nutless turkeys.

Syracuse didn't beg for a decade. It's a known fact that West Virginia and Connecticut, after SU and Pitt left, begged other conferences.

You both are probably right. The cold truth is that every football school has been begging to get out of the BE since Miami decided to move on. The teams that could have moved to another BCS leage have moved or are moving


Jackson

(12-19-2011 12:19 AM)True Bearcat Wrote:  Thanks Terry D. I know nothing about ND's independence, and never really cared either way if they were in a conference or independent until talks of UC's conference dissolving.

Hey, the guy asked. I was just responding to his question.

I don't start very many of these multiple ND threads on this board.

(12-19-2011 05:51 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 10:46 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:59 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 06:53 PM)TerryD Wrote:  NBC will renew or someone else will sign the Irish.

ND will remain independent for football.

These articles and posts always are written and have been written over the years but ND remains a football independent.

Every year Notre Dame becomes, less and less relevant in the minds of teens. I know of one Notre Dame fan who is my age. The rest are over 40.

There are more young Duke and North Carolina fans here, than young Notre Dame fans.

I don't think they'll join a conference in the near future. However, if new generations aren't getting into Notre Dame football, nationwide, then they'll have to join a conference.

I have three children, six nephews and four grand nephews/nieces, all under forty. All are diehard ND fans. Same as it ever was.

We all travel a thousand miles or more to attend a home ND football game, at least every other season. No shortage of enthusiasm with any of them.

I live in NYC and im under 40 and do not know any younger ND fans.

Well, there sure are a whole hell of a lot of message board threads, blogs and articles about at school with no fans outside of nursing homes.

The ACC and the Big Ten are doing everything they can to force ND to join one of those conferences even though they know the school and Notre Dame Stadium will resemble an empty, abandoned Old West ghost town in a couple of years, is that it?

Those old codgers are somehow able to buy tickets to sell out the Champs Sports Bowl for the first time. I hope there are a lot of wheelchair ramps and portable oxygen tanks there.

(12-19-2011 08:12 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Those old codgers are somehow able to buy tickets to sell out the Champs Sports Bowl for the first time. I hope there are a lot of wheelchair ramps and portable oxygen tanks there.

That was funny.

I know Notre Dame will always have a lot of fans. The point I was trying to make is that the fan base, away from Indiana, is shrinking. If people, with no connection to Notre Dame, aren't tuning in to watch then their Independence is at risk.

Notre Dame is not like Syracuse, Ohio State, etc...

Most of ND's fans are not living in Indiana, but rather are spread out all over the country. Your premise of "away from Indiana" is a false one.

ND is currently ranked as the 4th most popular team in the country, with ND being the second most popular school in New York City.


"Here’s one of those cliches that turns out to be valid: Notre Dame has a highly nationalized fan base. Its best markets — by the total number of fans, not market share — are New York, Chicago and Boston, each of which rank ahead of its native market of South Bend. It also has decent numbers of fans in markets as far afield as Los Angeles and Washington.

It’s no wonder, then, that the school has been reluctant to join a conference, which could limit its national exposure."


http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09...ent-chaos/


I think that this "shrinking fanbase" stuff, while having some merit, is overblown. ND has to starting winning more games and be in the championship discussion, no doubt.

But, that is true of every team. I watched LSU go from having near 90,000 fans a game to below 50,000 during their eight losing seasons out of eleven drought during the late Eighties and Nineties until Nick Saban came along.

If ND starts winning again, all of this "shrinking fanbase" stuff will go away and people will be talking about how much they dislike all the ND "bandwagon fans". I have seen this stuff before, in 1964 and in 1985.

From what I have heard, it seems as if the Notre Dame alumni are not as adamant about "football independence" as the non-alumni "fans".
Could be civil war.......

(12-19-2011 08:58 AM)XLance Wrote:  From what I have heard, it seems as if the Notre Dame alumni are not as adamant about "football independence" as the non-alumni "fans".
Could be civil war.......

Then, you must never read Rock's House at ND Nation, probably the most alumni centric website around.

If anything, the alumni are even more rabid about independence than the non-alumni fans.

(12-19-2011 09:04 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-19-2011 08:58 AM)XLance Wrote:  From what I have heard, it seems as if the Notre Dame alumni are not as adamant about "football independence" as the non-alumni "fans".
Could be civil war.......

Then, you must never read Rock's House at ND Nation, probably the most alumni centric website around.

If anything, the alumni are even more rabid about independence than the non-alumni fans.

I read Rock's House quite a bit.
There are quite a large number of non-alumni posters.

(12-19-2011 08:53 AM)TerryD Wrote:  If ND starts winning again, all of this "shrinking fanbase" stuff will go away and people will be talking about how much they dislike all the ND "bandwagon fans". I have seen this stuff before, in 1964 and in 1985.

When Alabama fired Mike Shula every blog, article, and talking head was shouting that Alabama's glory days were over and that it was no longer an elite school; that its fans' expectations were going to keep any elite coaches away; that they had to be content contending for the SEC West while only occasionally fielding a nationally competitive team.

We all see what happened there.

The same will happen at Notre Dame. The impending probation at Ohio $tate might be all the Irish need . . ..

One thing that is fairly remarkable about Notre Dame's popularity numbers is that it is one of the smallest schools that plays FBS football.

Its total undergraduate enrollment is only around 8,442. It does not put out the tens of thousands of graduates every year that many large, state land grant universities do.

Most of its national fan base and its appeal to TV and bowls is based upon non-alumni fans across the nation.


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...-dame-1840