Is that you Lance?

(12-10-2011 02:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 10:26 AM)Franko Wrote:  We don't need to get too caught up in how many stars a player garners in high school to a degree. It doesn't always mean this player is going to be great. I do believe WKU had or have a couple of guys who only had 2 stars by their name, Rainey and Jackson. It is bascially something for forum posters to brag about.

True and not true. There are always five underrated players for every 50 but rainey is in no way one of the best in the nation nor doe these underrated 2 star players every win any national championships. Most the time the star rankings are spot on even though they have faults. Heck look at Matt Barkley, he was a five star recruit.

Actually, for every one Matt Barkley I'd say there's just about one Mitch Mustain.

You know the 2010 Auburn Tigers had the #5 QB from the class of 2007 on their team? ***** Kodi Burns who was playing WR while the #14 QB Cam Newton was under center.

By the way(just to name a few)...

Tyrann Mathieu ***
Montee Ball ***
Mark Ingram ***
Justin Blackmon ***
Javier Arenas ***
Darrius Heyward Bey ***
Matt Ryan ***
Darrelle Reevis ***
Case Keenum **
Randall Cobb **


Here's a fun game, pick a year and look at the top 3 players at each position.

#1 QB John David Booty
#2 QB Kyle Wright
#3 QB Chris Leak

#1 RB Demetris Summers
#2 RB Kregg Lumpkin
#3 RB Brandon Jacobs

#1 WR Whitney Lewis
#2 WR Andre Caldwell
#3 WR Chad Jackson

#1 TE Greg Olson
#2 TE Will Paul
#3 TE Leonard Pope

#1 OL Jordy Lipsy
#2 OL Ofa Mohetau
#3 OL Eric Young

#1 DT Nate Robinson
#2 DT Moe Dampeer
#3 DT Darrell Shropshire

#1 DE LaMarr Woodley
#2 DE Lawrence Jackson
#3 DE Chauncey Davis

#1 LB Ernie Sims
#2 LB Wesley Jefferson
#3 LB Prescott Bridges

#1 S Brandon Owens
#2 S Tondy Cade
#3 S Donte Nicholson

#1 CB Donte Brown
#2 CB Terell Brown
#3 CB Antonio Cromartie

How many of those guys have you never heard of?

Look I'm not saying the star rating is totally invalid and I almost agree with you about the low number of underrated players, but there are definitely a high number of busts.

(12-11-2011 12:11 PM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:35 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:28 AM)CrushMI Wrote:  Small backs seem to be the new niche trend in the NFL. Woodhead of Patriots, Sproles of Saints. Rainey's best attributes for the NFL as a third down back are his ability to catch, ball security and kick returns. I could see him getting a strong opportunity from one of the Harbaugh brothers.

Rainey doesn't have the speed of a Sproles, or other small backs in the NFL. If you are going to be a small back and make it in the NFL, you have to have great speed and hands to catch out of the backfield. Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong. I want him to succeed at the next level.

Do you have stats to back that up? He looks fast to me. NFL stats are always padded.

NFL stats are padded? Are you talking about 40 times? College 40 times are way less dependable than college 40 times.

I won't say Rainey is definitely not an NFL back, but I'll be surprised if he's in the league in three years.

bobby does not have breakaway 'distance' speed as i've seen him run down too many times by dbs.

but having watched him for 4 years he has really good quickness getting to a corner. i know it won't show up in a combine but i'm sure the guys in the nfl look at more than just pure combine numbers.

i would make no projection for him being in the league in 3 years. you can pretty much say that about most backs coming out every year. the nfl is a high turnover place of employment since there are few guaranteed contracts and hungry new guys coming out every year.

but watching him for 4 years he does have heart. no, you can't measure that. but i know i won't bet against him. i feel he'll probably go in the 4th or 5th round to somebody. maybe not.

he's really good about picking through holes and despite his small stature he has really strong legs. i can't count how many 'arms' i've seen him pull through from dee linemen and linebackers. and yes...i know the guys in the nfl are larger and stronger.

i hope he does get drafted. and drafted by a team that has a good plan for using him. i feel he has more than adequate hands. they didn't pass much to him his first two years but did quite a bit this year. i'd have to look at the stats for last year.

Rainey named to another All-American team.
3rd team Yahoo sports.

(12-11-2011 12:11 PM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:35 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:28 AM)CrushMI Wrote:  Small backs seem to be the new niche trend in the NFL. Woodhead of Patriots, Sproles of Saints. Rainey's best attributes for the NFL as a third down back are his ability to catch, ball security and kick returns. I could see him getting a strong opportunity from one of the Harbaugh brothers.

Rainey doesn't have the speed of a Sproles, or other small backs in the NFL. If you are going to be a small back and make it in the NFL, you have to have great speed and hands to catch out of the backfield. Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong. I want him to succeed at the next level.

Do you have stats to back that up? He looks fast to me. NFL stats are always padded.

I saw UNT CB Royce Hill catch him from behind from about 8 yards behind him. Never have seen Dunbar get caught from behind...

(12-11-2011 05:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 12:11 PM)BlueRaiderFan. Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:35 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(12-11-2011 11:28 AM)CrushMI Wrote:  Small backs seem to be the new niche trend in the NFL. Woodhead of Patriots, Sproles of Saints. Rainey's best attributes for the NFL as a third down back are his ability to catch, ball security and kick returns. I could see him getting a strong opportunity from one of the Harbaugh brothers.

Rainey doesn't have the speed of a Sproles, or other small backs in the NFL. If you are going to be a small back and make it in the NFL, you have to have great speed and hands to catch out of the backfield. Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong. I want him to succeed at the next level.

Do you have stats to back that up? He looks fast to me. NFL stats are always padded.

I have the fact that I've watched him play, and I didn't feel he had great breakaway speed. Hopefully he will prove me wrong and preform well at the combines.

Does anyone know how many 60 TD runs Rainey had posted at WKU?

Zero 60 yard runs for him, career long was 59....

Btw Dunbar had 8 60+ yard TD runs and 3 60+ yard TD catches......Probably the reason Lance got into the endzone a heck of alot more that Rainey, and the reason he is the conferences all time TD leader.

Rainey so far is a 3 time All-American.

Why did this turn in to another Dunbar Rainey thread? And why can't people stop making threads like that when the end result is always the two schools posters going at it, WKU fans will like Rainey, we will like Dunbar, just kind of pointless to argue. They're both great backs.

In other news, UNT is putting the full court press on 3* safety Leo Thomas who is an Arizona decommit. Safety is a big area of need and this kid is a pretty good player, we only have 4 or 5 ships left but he's number one on my wishlist.

same as the Adrian Peterson vs. CJ2K argument. what running style do you prefer? I'm a CJ guy, the kid is incredible...even if he IS having a bad year this year.

(12-11-2011 11:31 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 02:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-10-2011 10:26 AM)Franko Wrote:  We don't need to get too caught up in how many stars a player garners in high school to a degree. It doesn't always mean this player is going to be great. I do believe WKU had or have a couple of guys who only had 2 stars by their name, Rainey and Jackson. It is bascially something for forum posters to brag about.

True and not true. There are always five underrated players for every 50 but rainey is in no way one of the best in the nation nor doe these underrated 2 star players every win any national championships. Most the time the star rankings are spot on even though they have faults. Heck look at Matt Barkley, he was a five star recruit.

Actually, for every one Matt Barkley I'd say there's just about one Mitch Mustain.

You know the 2010 Auburn Tigers had the #5 QB from the class of 2007 on their team? ***** Kodi Burns who was playing WR while the #14 QB Cam Newton was under center.

By the way(just to name a few)...

Tyrann Mathieu ***
Montee Ball ***
Mark Ingram ***
Justin Blackmon ***
Javier Arenas ***
Darrius Heyward Bey ***
Matt Ryan ***
Darrelle Reevis ***
Case Keenum **
Randall Cobb **


Here's a fun game, pick a year and look at the top 3 players at each position.

#1 QB John David Booty
#2 QB Kyle Wright
#3 QB Chris Leak

#1 RB Demetris Summers
#2 RB Kregg Lumpkin
#3 RB Brandon Jacobs

#1 WR Whitney Lewis
#2 WR Andre Caldwell
#3 WR Chad Jackson

#1 TE Greg Olson
#2 TE Will Paul
#3 TE Leonard Pope

#1 OL Jordy Lipsy
#2 OL Ofa Mohetau
#3 OL Eric Young

#1 DT Nate Robinson
#2 DT Moe Dampeer
#3 DT Darrell Shropshire

#1 DE LaMarr Woodley
#2 DE Lawrence Jackson
#3 DE Chauncey Davis

#1 LB Ernie Sims
#2 LB Wesley Jefferson
#3 LB Prescott Bridges

#1 S Brandon Owens
#2 S Tondy Cade
#3 S Donte Nicholson

#1 CB Donte Brown
#2 CB Terell Brown
#3 CB Antonio Cromartie

How many of those guys have you never heard of?

Look I'm not saying the star rating is totally invalid and I almost agree with you about the low number of underrated players, but there are definitely a high number of busts.

Didn't John David Booty start for two years for the USC Trojans?

(12-13-2011 06:16 AM)SOT1977 Wrote:  Didn't John David Booty start for two years for the USC Trojans?

Yes he did, but his career still has to be viewed as a disappointment when he was the #1 overall recruit in his class.

The major schools (Bama, Texas, USC, Ohio St, etc) are loaded with players that coulda, woulda, shoulda. Let's face it, it is pretty darn easy to land your share of big name recruits when you are those schools. Thing is, all those players are at schools that are going to reload each year at the skill positions. So, if the kid is a tad bit lazy, wants to screw up one too many times, or is just a step slower than the new freshman, he will find himself on the bench or off the team. It often makes me wonder if some of these coaches, while being good recruiters, are really good at evaluating talent. What I mean is, do they have the ability to look at a player and see if there is potential to grow and learn or has the kid gotten close to peaking. Someone mentioned JD Booty who had an average collegiate career. Was this the case that he didn't have the potential to improve? Or was it just a lack of talent around him? Was he lazy?

Smaller schools like those in the SBC make their living finding the gems that are overlooked. Some kid who played at a small school that the major schools overlooked. I always wonder about the 3* player who has no offers from AQ schools. What is in his background? Or the kid who was booted from another program. How many of those do you give a second chance to and is it another headache just waiting?

Rainey is now a 2nd team Sports Illustrated All-American
He is on the second team with James of Oregon.
His 3rd All-American team this year.
What an outstanding running back.
Go Tops.

Very well deserved. I still say I hope the Titans draft him to compliment CJ2K.

(12-13-2011 01:18 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  Rainey is now a 2nd team Sports Illustrated All-American
He is on the second team with James of Oregon.
His 3rd All-American team this year.
What an outstanding running back.
Go Tops.

(12-13-2011 09:29 AM)InjunJohn Wrote:  Someone mentioned JD Booty who had an average collegiate career. Was this the case that he didn't have the potential to improve? Or was it just a lack of talent around him? Was he lazy?

As the number 1 prospect in his class you should expect to go in and challenge for PT right away and you should also expect to eventually be in the NFL.

(12-13-2011 01:35 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 09:29 AM)InjunJohn Wrote:  Someone mentioned JD Booty who had an average collegiate career. Was this the case that he didn't have the potential to improve? Or was it just a lack of talent around him? Was he lazy?

As the number 1 prospect in his class you should expect to go in and challenge for PT right away and you should also expect to eventually be in the NFL.

Well, he did. Named as the back up as a true freshman to some guy named Matt Leinert. I think that guy won some trophy given out to pretty decent college football players. First Team All Pac 10, Rose Bowl MVP, 9-0 record against Top 25 teams (yes I stole from Wikipedia). A couple of years in the NFL but didn't do anything but that happens to a lot of "can't miss" folks coming out of college.

Still young so who knows what may happen with all the QBs going down. Probably nothing but stranger things have happened.

(12-13-2011 01:35 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 09:29 AM)InjunJohn Wrote:  Someone mentioned JD Booty who had an average collegiate career. Was this the case that he didn't have the potential to improve? Or was it just a lack of talent around him? Was he lazy?

As the number 1 prospect in his class you should expect to go in and challenge for PT right away and you should also expect to eventually be in the NFL.

Actually Booty would have started at most teams in the country he was pretty good. College numbers just don't always transfer to the NFL.

His issue at USC was that his support was so good he never had to win the games himself.

So . . . back to recruiting.

South isn't doing too bad for such a young program. We have at least 15 commits. According to ESPN's rankings, 7 of those are 3*. In the hunt for several more 3*. We have a couple 4* transfers already on the squad, and one 5*.