(10-27-2011 12:21 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

I like the idea of both joining. I hope it happens.

If WVU said they would not join unless the big 12 added UL, I think it would happen. Just my opinion, but if they would be willing to do a deal where they only received half of the conference money until the deal could be redone in 2013, than the money issue would be gone with the rest of the the Big 12 schools. Just my 2 cents/ Of course the Big 12 would have to add a third..... so.... this whole thing sucks. If UCON could somehow move its state closer to Texas we would have three programs that we would want to take. Perhaps the senators from UCONN can change that and we can get this mess to 12.

I honestly think the leaders at Louisville, UC & WCU would step up together & say we are a package deal...IMO its the only way it would work for the Big 12 & the schools. Dog eat dog world though.

(10-27-2011 02:28 AM)cardshouse Wrote:  I honestly think the leaders at Louisville, UC & WCU would step up together & say we are a package deal...IMO its the only way it would work for the Big 12 & the schools. Dog eat dog world though.

That would be spectacular.
Unfortunately, my Bearcats just don't have the influence that UofL and WVU enjoy.
Those three school make a great geographical group and I hope they stay together.

It'd be nice if they worked together. But unfortunately that bucks the trend of "look out for yourself" mentality that is so pervasive in college sports. No college really cares about any other college. It wants to make itself better. Sadly, that's just the way it is.

(10-27-2011 02:28 AM)cardshouse Wrote:  I honestly think the leaders at Louisville, UC & WCU would step up together & say we are a package deal...IMO its the only way it would work for the Big 12 & the schools. Dog eat dog world though.

Seriously, why would anyone do this?

There may be only one spot if the Big 12 stays at ten schools.

The Big East teams have no leverage, they are the ones begging the Big 12 to take them, not the other way around.

I think there's absolutely no way the Big 12 can leave out West Virginia now without extreme public ridicule (which is already beginning to take place - see Berry Tramel's article) and the fact that there are 3 US Senators and a congresswoman involved now. If enough teams support UL and don't back down then they either invite both or neither and inviting both is the only way to appease everyone (except maybe Texas who wants 10). This whole thing could have been contrived by Boren at OU who knew the only way to go past 10 was to make the issue public. Inviting both is the only way out now politically without making a further mess of things and hopefully Texas sees that and we can all knock over the domino and get on with things. I'd like to enjoy what's left of the football season and the beginning of college basketball without this enormous shadow cast over college sports.

EDIT: All that being said, Cincinnati has no leverage and WVU and UL would be crazy to try to bring them aboard. I don't think the Big 12 wants them.

(10-27-2011 06:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  The Big East teams have no leverage, they are the ones begging the Big 12 to take them, not the other way around.

This is what no one seems to (want to) understand or realize. The Big East and its teams have little to no leverage in what is going on right now at all - couple that with the fact that any and every one of them would jump to another conference as soon as they could, and the entire situation for them is as fluid and volatile as it could be. Some here seem to think that BE is standing on the same or similar ground as the rest of the AQ's - but reality is such that that is simply not even close to the truth.

they are not working together. I promise you the WV Prez would like to string up the Louisville prez right now. WV was out the door and not looking back.

Pirate no one is saying the BE is on the same level as the other 5 BCS AQ conf. Yes everyone would leave if they could. Bottom line is some can not move without stepping down hill, and the mega conf would be going backwards for them. They will do their best to cherry pick and move on, It is better than the alternative. And the schools they wish to take will do the same, because moving to the BE with its problems is better than standing pat in the alliance. Sorry but any 12 team BE that survives is a step above the CUSA/MWC super duper left over conf.

They Big East teams do have leverage - IF they truly do want to stay together. If WVU and UL would prefer being together to being apart, then that's their leverage. It's just like buying a car or a house - the genuine willingness to walk away from a deal is all the leverage that's required.

If they stay together, then Boise, Houston, AF, Navy, UCF, and SMU will join. That's a recipe for multiple BCS bowl appearances for WVU, and it's in a conference that makes much more geographic sense for their secondary sports. The Big 12 may be preferable to this, but if they're the lone Eastern outpost then it might not be preferable for their administration. The same goes for Louisville, who would probably have to give up one of their 2 big rivalries (UK or UC) to jump alone.

At the very least, it's a close enough call to where they may be able to convince the Big 12 that they'd prefer the Big East over a 10-team Big 12.

Just because this situation would be beneficial to UC doesn't mean that it's not what WVU and UL are trying to do. This is a real-live game-theory experiment here. The best negotiators will win.

(10-27-2011 07:53 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Sorry but any 12 team BE that survives is a step above the CUSA/MWC super duper left over conf.

That is the key right there - "and 12-team BE that survives"......

Lots of assumptions being made in the face of reality that that will happen.

....and FTR, I think many folks are also making blind assumptions about the Alliance without really understanding what the actual proposals are. I think many would be more inclined to stop and listen if they knew more. Obviously the current BE leftovers wouldn't WANT to join an alliance right now - if for no other reason that snobbery - but if the potential invitees (and I include ECU in that group) would stand pat, then those leftovers (esp. once WVU, etc. bolts) would have no choice to join, and what we'd be left with then would be more regionalized, sensible conferences with better benefits for the current "have-nots" like UCF and ECU....

(10-27-2011 08:08 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  - the genuine willingness to walk away from a deal is all the leverage that's required.

No one is willing to walk away, it is every school for itself. WV was out and not looking back, If b12 decided same now for louisville they would be gone. WV couldn't care less what happens in the land of Birds, and Louisville could care less where Mountain dudes end up. They only care where they land. and neither of them give a flip about bear cats.

(10-27-2011 02:21 AM)Franklin27 Wrote:  If WVU said they would not join unless the big 12 added UL, I think it would happen. Just my opinion, but if they would be willing to do a deal where they only received half of the conference money until the deal could be redone in 2013, than the money issue would be gone with the rest of the the Big 12 schools. Just my 2 cents/ Of course the Big 12 would have to add a third..... so.... this whole thing sucks. If UCON could somehow move its state closer to Texas we would have three programs that we would want to take. Perhaps the senators from UCONN can change that and we can get this mess to 12.

I'll get my shovel. Who's with me?

Pirate, Houston, Smu, UCF, and boise will jump, AF and Navy likely will jump, and the BE will have 0 problems finding 1 or if needed 2 more willing to jump, including ECU. and that conf will survive, and it will keep its AQ. The CUSA/MWC monster will stretch from coast to coast as will the new BE, the difference is simple the BE will make more $$$, and be AQ. The CUSA/MWC will make less $$$ and probably not be AQ.

Personally, I think all this drama is ultimately just the Big 12's out. They know they want both WVU and UL but don't want the blood on their hands as being the party that coldly put the final nail in the Big East's coffin. With all this bruhaha, they can come in at the end and say, "Hey, we only wanted one, but the only way to smooth things over politically was to take them both. They came pounding on our door. You can't blame us."

(10-27-2011 08:37 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Pirate, Houston, Smu, UCF, and boise will jump, AF and Navy likely will jump, and the BE will have 0 problems finding 1 or if needed 2 more willing to jump, including ECU. and that conf will survive, and it will keep its AQ. The CUSA/MWC monster will stretch from coast to coast as will the new BE, the difference is simple the BE will make more $$$, and be AQ. The CUSA/MWC will make less $$$ and probably not be AQ.

Assumptions...nothing more. Reality could be much different than you assume. The BE has NO leverage right now and 6 remaining members who WILL leave as soon as they are offered the opportunity - even after/if a 12-team conference is set up.

(10-27-2011 06:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2011 02:28 AM)cardshouse Wrote:  I honestly think the leaders at Louisville, UC & WCU would step up together & say we are a package deal...IMO its the only way it would work for the Big 12 & the schools. Dog eat dog world though.

Seriously, why would anyone do this?

There may be only one spot if the Big 12 stays at ten schools.

The Big East teams have no leverage, they are the ones begging the Big 12 to take them, not the other way around.

This

(10-27-2011 08:37 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Pirate, Houston, Smu, UCF, and boise will jump, AF and Navy likely will jump, and the BE will have 0 problems finding 1 or if needed 2 more willing to jump, including ECU. and that conf will survive, and it will keep its AQ. The CUSA/MWC monster will stretch from coast to coast as will the new BE, the difference is simple the BE will make more $$$, and be AQ. The CUSA/MWC will make less $$$ and probably not be AQ.

Nobody's doing a blessed thing until it's known who of the current membership is going to be left in the Big East.

Two Big East schools are currently, very publicly fighting to be the next one out. Others have had officials make statements and/or take actions indicating their desire to leave. We know two things: First, the exit fee increases in the event an invitation is extended and accepted. So what's the incentive for the majority of schools to even agree to make one when it risks taking $5 million out of their pockets? Secondly, both Boise and Navy have been very clear that they're not jumping in until they know what the lineup is. That's quite impossible to do with this Big 12 business going on.

Besides that, the assumption that Big East leftovers plus "finding somebody" will maintain AQ borders on laughable.

That would be great.....it would be like a script from wrestling......Louisville and WVU work together.....make it look like they are working against each other.....

And when they finally think they have both wedged themselves into the conference......

Tulane gets the spot.