(09-16-2011 09:50 AM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 07:23 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Going west is program suicide. Road basketball games that start at 9:30 local time? Students losing 2 hours on the ride home? All the extra travel expense?

#1 misconception of a Pac-16, OMG we are traveling 3 time zones every week, Games not finishing till 1 am!!1

I apologize if you were being sarcastic.

TCU committed "program suicide" when they joined the Mountain West, right? They became terrible and never had a winning season there! If only they had stayed in an eastern conference, maybe they might have gone to a bowl game or something.
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* (Yes, folks, that was sarcasm.)

(09-16-2011 09:50 AM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 07:23 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Going west is program suicide. Road basketball games that start at 9:30 local time? Students losing 2 hours on the ride home? All the extra travel expense?

#1 misconception of a Pac-16, OMG we are traveling 3 time zones every week, Games not finishing till 1 am!!1

I apologize if you were being sarcastic.

It's common knowledge that you do NOT want to be the eastern most school in a western-based multiple time zone conference unless you absolutely have to.

FAR better to be the western most school in an eastern based conference. TCU got it right this time.

(09-16-2011 11:18 AM)Sammy11 Wrote:  So much to argue against here.
1- Baylor is ranked and has scoreboard on you.
2- We have a better overall athletic department than both SMU and TCU with very good men's and women's hoops.
3- We historically outdraw you and while the Big 12 helps, you attendance has spiked in 2 consecutive BCS years. Given equal competition and equal results we will outdraw tcu and always have. TCU has done well but 2x the student body counts for a lot.
4- Waco is 1.5 hours to DFW and Austin and BU alumni outnumber both the Frogs and Ponies in DFW (41k vs 25k and 39k). We also have a similar # of BU alumni in Houston to what TCU has in DFW (21k to 25k)
5- Waco is within 3 hours of EVERY texas recruiting hotbed.

6- SMU has only touched us in attendance in the pony excess days where in addition to cheating they were a bigger team than they would realistically become again anytime soon. I feel it is important to distinguish how the schools did against common foes, but split out UT and ATM as they made everyone draw big. Looking at the other schools gives a better picture as they don't travel nearly as well.

- Against common opponents other than UT and A&M, BU outdrew SMU 37,000 to 34,000. Considering the number of fans for other schools in Dallas that helped SMU that is a big edge for BU. If you take TCU out (45minutes from SMU) SMU's average drops to 31k and BU stays at 37k. Clearly the TCU proximity helped SMU.

- Against UT and A&M, SMU outdrew BU 53,000 to 43,000 but if you take the capacity of SMU's games at Texas stadium (65k) to equal BU's capacity (50k) you get 48,000 for SMU. Texas and A&M made those crowds anyway as each has around 50-70k alumni in DFW. It is a spike of 20k for those opponents for SMU and only 6k for BU compared to other common foes.

- Since the death penalty SMU has drawn very little. Similar home games against Tech, TCU, Rice, New Mexico, and UAB over the last decade have had attendance figures decidedly in Baylor's favor over SMU and even when visiting fans are factored out.

- Baylor has better facilities across the board than both with the football stadium being the only exception and a new one with a 300m pricetag coming soon.

I like SMU and TCU and pull for them but I feel you drastically undersell Baylor here.

You are right that Baylor has superior basketball. You are wrong on everything else in my view. Looking at attendance, the argument there is pretty meaningless either way. Baylor and TCU are in the same ballpark right now. A few thousand either way doesn't mean much overall. Ditto with your comparison to SMU of yesteryear. When you consider that Baylor in Waco is the only game in town, whereas SMU/TCU are in DFW, it makes it even more meaningless to get into such small differences. Teams in small towns usually draw pretty well, but it doesn't mean much for overall fandom. Plus, play the teams that TCU and SMU have played since the SWC, and Baylor attendance will go down, because Baylor's prestige will go down. I hope you don't have to find this out, but if you get left out, you'll see it.

Same argument applies with number of alumni. Looking at 10k here and there is nothing compared to media market. Waco has what, 200k max if you include everything between DFW and Austin, whereas there is 6 million in DFW? Do you think many ACC alumni live in Waco? There are tons in DFW as people across the country move into the business-friendly economy. Picking up Baylor, SMU, TCU (or even Houston) is not picking up their tiny alumni pools. It's picking up their location.

I can't comment on facilities, I've never really seen what Baylor has outside of the football stadium.

Is being 3 hours from recruiting hotbeds close enough to count? I don't know. I suspect no, but we'll see.

(09-16-2011 12:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 09:50 AM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 07:23 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Going west is program suicide. Road basketball games that start at 9:30 local time? Students losing 2 hours on the ride home? All the extra travel expense?

#1 misconception of a Pac-16, OMG we are traveling 3 time zones every week, Games not finishing till 1 am!!1

I apologize if you were being sarcastic.

TCU committed "program suicide" when they joined the Mountain West, right? They became terrible and never had a winning season there! If only they had stayed in an eastern conference, maybe they might have gone to a bowl game or something.
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* (Yes, folks, that was sarcasm.)

If the Pac 16 happens, The Pac time zone schools would be in a different division anyway. 2 cross over games(1 at home) starting between 4 & 8 eastern, oooh the agony. In basketball you'll have 2-4 cross over(1-2 at home). Soooo tired

(09-16-2011 07:23 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(09-15-2011 04:18 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  Head West.

Going west is program suicide. Road basketball games that start at 9:30 local time? Students losing 2 hours on the ride home? All the extra travel expense?

I don't get it. Except to say OU is scared of the SEC and has no other good choice if the Big 12 implodes.

Are you being serious?

It's unclear how the Pac-14 (or Pac-16) would organize for basketball, but you can be sure that they'll use the "travel partner" plan, wherein road basketball trips will include a Thursday/Friday game and a weekend game. Those weekend games are typically in the afternoon, so we're talking a very limited number of late starts, and if I'm a betting man, I'd bet that they would plan most of the Oklahoma or Texas west coast games to be on a Saturday or early Sunday to allow for them to get home.

So let's say, for example, it's a Pac-14 with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. That probably means an 18 game regular season, with your "travel partner" a guaranteed home/home and two other partners also home/home. So that's 16 games (8 weekends) of basketball against the Pac-12, which means 4 of them will be on the road. Are they really going to lose sleep over playing a maximum of 4 road games at 9:30 pm?

Of course, if they go to 16 and go with a pod system, it's likely that they'd play even less of those (3 games).

USFFan

(09-16-2011 02:37 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 07:23 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(09-15-2011 04:18 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  Head West.

Going west is program suicide. Road basketball games that start at 9:30 local time? Students losing 2 hours on the ride home? All the extra travel expense?

I don't get it. Except to say OU is scared of the SEC and has no other good choice if the Big 12 implodes.

Are you being serious?

It's unclear how the Pac-14 (or Pac-16) would organize for basketball, but you can be sure that they'll use the "travel partner" plan, wherein road basketball trips will include a Thursday/Friday game and a weekend game. Those weekend games are typically in the afternoon, so we're talking a very limited number of late starts, and if I'm a betting man, I'd bet that they would plan most of the Oklahoma or Texas west coast games to be on a Saturday or early Sunday to allow for them to get home.

So let's say, for example, it's a Pac-14 with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. That probably means an 18 game regular season, with your "travel partner" a guaranteed home/home and two other partners also home/home. So that's 16 games (8 weekends) of basketball against the Pac-12, which means 4 of them will be on the road. Are they really going to lose sleep over playing a maximum of 4 road games at 9:30 pm?

Of course, if they go to 16 and go with a pod system, it's likely that they'd play even less of those (3 games).

USFFan

Yeah so even in basketball if you have 4 cross over 2 home 2 road, the road would just be 1 road trip to say Cal/Stanford Thurs(6:30 PST/Sat(1:00 PST).

If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

UT will try...

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

I think that's the way it will play out, though it will take concessions from Texas eg. revenue sharing. Indeed, if the details can be ironed out and the Longhorns settle down, then a good future is available for the remaining teams in the B12 and those who come aboard.

(09-16-2011 03:05 PM)Dub591 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

I think that's the way it will play out, though it will take concessions from Texas eg. revenue sharing. Indeed, if the details can be ironed out and the Longhorns settle down, then a good future is available for the remaining teams in the B12 and those who come aboard.

It would be interesting, let's say you are in charge at KU and your conference choices are:

1) Big 12 w/ UT, but w/o OU and OSU, refilled with CUSA schools
2) Pac-16 w/ OU, OSU, and either KSU or MU
3) Big East with KSU, ISU, and probably MU

Which move would you make?

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

(09-16-2011 03:23 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

Just because Texas said something doesn't mean they will follow through. You should know that by now. They have said a lot in the past and did just the opposite.

(09-16-2011 03:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  let's say you are in charge at KU and your conference choices are:

1) Big 12 w/ UT, but w/o OU and OSU, refilled with CUSA schools
2) Pac-16 w/ OU, OSU, and either KSU or MU
3) Big East with KSU, ISU, and probably MU

Which move would you make?

If I am Texas, where aditional money and exposure is not an issue (especially with the LHN inflow), #1 is a no-brainer. Who would want travel an average of 1700 miles to away games?

(09-16-2011 03:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:05 PM)Dub591 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

I think that's the way it will play out, though it will take concessions from Texas eg. revenue sharing. Indeed, if the details can be ironed out and the Longhorns settle down, then a good future is available for the remaining teams in the B12 and those who come aboard.

It would be interesting, let's say you are in charge at KU and your conference choices are:

1) Big 12 w/ UT, but w/o OU and OSU, refilled with CUSA schools
2) Pac-16 w/ OU, OSU, and either KSU or MU
3) Big East with KSU, ISU, and probably MU

Which move would you make?

Why do some of you think the Big 12 can only refill with CUSA schools? The MWC is out there to choose from. And there is a small chance they could attract a BCS school.

(09-16-2011 03:30 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:23 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

Just because Texas said something doesn't mean they will follow through. You should know that by now. They have said a lot in the past and did just the opposite.

Texas has a BoR meeting on Monday too, just saying.

KU will take #1 every time.

People who aren't familiar with them, they are basically a carbon copy of UT but with basketball DNA instead of football. They have their own TV deal for basketball they don't want to give up for any kind of conference network, their fans have the same sense of entitlement and their goal in a conference is the same basic philosophy: surround yourself with a bunch of weak, dwarf programs, beat them, act like you are tough ****, get exposed early and often in the postseason.

(09-16-2011 03:35 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:30 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:23 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

Just because Texas said something doesn't mean they will follow through. You should know that by now. They have said a lot in the past and did just the opposite.

Texas has a BoR meeting on Monday too, just saying.

I saw that. They may have to feel important too!

(09-16-2011 03:34 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:05 PM)Dub591 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

I think that's the way it will play out, though it will take concessions from Texas eg. revenue sharing. Indeed, if the details can be ironed out and the Longhorns settle down, then a good future is available for the remaining teams in the B12 and those who come aboard.

It would be interesting, let's say you are in charge at KU and your conference choices are:

1) Big 12 w/ UT, but w/o OU and OSU, refilled with CUSA schools
2) Pac-16 w/ OU, OSU, and either KSU or MU
3) Big East with KSU, ISU, and probably MU

Which move would you make?

Why do some of you think the Big 12 can only refill with CUSA schools? The MWC is out there to choose from. And there is a small chance they could attract a BCS school.

this idea of getting BE schools doesn't fly on here, csi board is discussing the same thing, w/o the backlash from the BE faithful. The main BE guy brought up the idea of BE/B12 merger to the B12 a while back. I just don't know what UT would have to do to convince BE schools to come.

(09-16-2011 03:36 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:35 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:30 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:23 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 02:57 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  If UT can't convince OU to stay, the Longhorns will convince the remaining schools to stay to save the conference.

Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

Just because Texas said something doesn't mean they will follow through. You should know that by now. They have said a lot in the past and did just the opposite.

Texas has a BoR meeting on Monday too, just saying.

I saw that. They may have to feel important too!

I hear ya, what OU is having a meeting on Mon? Oh yeah, so are we! Maybe we'll leave you, before you leave us.

(09-16-2011 03:41 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:36 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:35 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:30 PM)billetingman1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 03:23 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Are you sure? What about all that hubbub on them saying a B12 w/o OU is not viable for them.

Just because Texas said something doesn't mean they will follow through. You should know that by now. They have said a lot in the past and did just the opposite.

Texas has a BoR meeting on Monday too, just saying.

I saw that. They may have to feel important too!

I hear ya, what OU is having a meeting on Mon? Oh yeah, so are we! Maybe we'll leave you, before you leave us.

OU's meeting is 2 hours before UT's.