(03-26-2011 12:43 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 02:11 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 11:35 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 11:32 AM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 11:25 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  ...and being rid of the human turnover machine at QB.

We will miss him.

Funny how fast things change, no one outside of Troy would have said that after 2009...

You're a pretty level headed guy. Serious question for you PiKapp. Whats the deal with the Troy/MTSU rivalry? Is it 100% mental? Or does Troy have the heads and tails better team most years, or just some convenient matchup problems (small o-line vs big d-line)?

And what do you think about the game being so early in the season? It's our home opener as it stands.

If I had to make an estimation it would be this:

2006 Probably should have been a toss-up, but if I had to say which team was better, I would more than likely say Troy, but because we were undefeated in conference at the time and had dominated the game for three quarters, it's viewed as a tremendous choke job by the Blue Raiders(as it probably should be, even if Troy was the better team) if we could have just stopped a 4th and 19 or covered an onside kick that went directly through the hands of one of the guys on our coverage team, we win that game.

2007 I think Troy was the better team, the game was at Troy, and there was a small mental aspect from the way 2006 went down.

2008 Again Troy was the better team and the mental aspect was really setting in.

2009 This is the one year that I think Blue Raider fans can at least make an argument that we have been the better or more talented team. I'm not saying we definitely were, but when you compare the rest of our seasons, this is the one year where the Troy game seems like a total anomaly. There will always be something fishy about that game, about the way Dasher played and/or some of the comments made by Tony Franklin going into the game. I'm not accusing Troy of any wrong doing and I don't want to make any direct accusations about Dasher or Franklin, but again, I will always wonder what really went on in that game, because we were a much better team than we showed in that game and when you compare what each team did to the rest of the conference, that game should have been one for the ages.

2010 The season was a complete mess, I think on paper we had the talent to at least have a chance in 2010, but there was so much going on away from the field in 2010 our team really only played to their potential once or twice all season and they definitely didn't that night against Troy. Had we been able to, I dunno, Troy was probably still the better team and at this point the mental aspect is pretty concrete.


Now all that said, I'd like to jump back to 2006 for a moment. I really think 2006 was the year that really changed the dynamic of the Sun Belt over the last 5 years. Had MT been able to stop that 4th and 19 or fall on that onside kick, we would have gone to New Orleans at 8-4 rather than going to Detroit at 7-5. We would have likely stomped a mudhole in Rice like the Trojans did, rather than running into the Central Michigan buzzsaw. So we would have likely finished 9-4 rather than 7-6. Troy would have been 6-6 after our game, I don't know who else was out there as an at-large, if the Trojans would have ended up in Detriot and who knows how a Troy vs Central Michigan(in a virtual home game) would have played out, but I would say Troy would have had a tough go of it. So that collapse in the final two minutes in 2006 was the likely the difference in MT going 9-4 rather than 7-6 and Troy going 6-6(or possibly 7-6 or 6-7) rather going 8-5.

Now I'm not saying that would have changed the entire dymanic of the league and we would have just reeled off our fifth straight season with at least a share of the league title, but I do think it would have changed things a fair amount. We definitely would have seen a small bump in recruiting from a 9-4 outright champions, bowl winning season over our 7-6 co-champions bowl loser season. Coming off a 9-4 season, maybe we don't go down to FAU and drop the season opener in 2007, or close games to FAU and WKU. Perhaps the seed of doubt against Troy is never really planted, so maybe Troy wins one or both of 2007 and 2008 because they're the better team, but they don't sting quite as much without that 2006 collapse in the back of our minds. Perhaps we're able to win in 2009 with the dynamic of the series altered, which would have meant another outright championship and an 11 win season.

It may be the extreme end of the spectrum, but I think it's at least possible that had we held on in 2006, we would have won a few more games over the years due to improved recruitment(which is not to say we would have jumped to having top 50 classes, but we may have been able to snag just a few impact players we just missed on, which would be enough to change the outcome in a few close games).

As it is we've gone

2006 7-6
2007 5-7
2008 5-7
2009 10-3
2010 6-7

I think we could have gone more like

2006 9-4
2007 7-5
2008 8-4
2009 11-2

2010 is the year that I really don't know how much would have changed, Dasher may have still had the off field exploits that he did, but I think there's a distinct possibility that with improved seasons over the previous few years we might have had another quarterback ready to take the team over, which we didn't have this year. So who knows, 2010 may have played out the same was or it could have been better.


Anyway, all that said, who knows what would have happened? If my extreme scenario had played out, maybe a team comes calling for Stockstill that we couldn't compete with, or maybe our guys get over confident and fall flat on their faces. I suppose at the end of the day, all that matters is Troy has won 5 straight in the series and based on what we both having coming back this year(and even though I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are) I don't expect the trend to change in 2011.

That was a really good read. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've long thought the same thing: The Miracle in Murphreesboro was the spark that pushed Troy forward. Maybe almost as important, was the hiring of Tony Franklin at the start of the season, and then destroying Rice on National TV. That was a very special year for me. It was the year I started following football in general, as I had hated it in high school. 90% of my family is from New Orleans and I have lived there in the past as well, so going to the New Orleans Bowl was a pleasure.

A lot of things would be different if we had not converted and scored that final touchdown. The only thing that bothers me is that Troy has been stagnant for the last 5 years. Granted they've done a lot of things most other sunbelt teams would like to have done, Troy needs to start getting to the 10 and 11 win seasons instead of 8 and 9 everyear, and beating some BCS teams along the way.

(03-26-2011 12:43 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  If I had to make an estimation it would be this:

2006 Probably should have been a toss-up, but if I had to say which team was better, I would more than likely say Troy, but because we were undefeated in conference at the time and had dominated the game for three quarters, it's viewed as a tremendous choke job by the Blue Raiders(as it probably should be, even if Troy was the better team) if we could have just stopped a 4th and 19 or covered an onside kick that went directly through the hands of one of the guys on our coverage team, we win that game.

2007 I think Troy was the better team, the game was at Troy, and there was a small mental aspect from the way 2006 went down.

2008 Again Troy was the better team and the mental aspect was really setting in.

2009 This is the one year that I think Blue Raider fans can at least make an argument that we have been the better or more talented team. I'm not saying we definitely were, but when you compare the rest of our seasons, this is the one year where the Troy game seems like a total anomaly. There will always be something fishy about that game, about the way Dasher played and/or some of the comments made by Tony Franklin going into the game. I'm not accusing Troy of any wrong doing and I don't want to make any direct accusations about Dasher or Franklin, but again, I will always wonder what really went on in that game, because we were a much better team than we showed in that game and when you compare what each team did to the rest of the conference, that game should have been one for the ages.

2010 The season was a complete mess, I think on paper we had the talent to at least have a chance in 2010, but there was so much going on away from the field in 2010 our team really only played to their potential once or twice all season and they definitely didn't that night against Troy. Had we been able to, I dunno, Troy was probably still the better team and at this point the mental aspect is pretty concrete.


Now all that said, I'd like to jump back to 2006 for a moment. I really think 2006 was the year that really changed the dynamic of the Sun Belt over the last 5 years. Had MT been able to stop that 4th and 19 or fall on that onside kick, we would have gone to New Orleans at 8-4 rather than going to Detroit at 7-5. We would have likely stomped a mudhole in Rice like the Trojans did, rather than running into the Central Michigan buzzsaw. So we would have likely finished 9-4 rather than 7-6. Troy would have been 6-6 after our game, I don't know who else was out there as an at-large, if the Trojans would have ended up in Detriot and who knows how a Troy vs Central Michigan(in a virtual home game) would have played out, but I would say Troy would have had a tough go of it. So that collapse in the final two minutes in 2006 was the likely the difference in MT going 9-4 rather than 7-6 and Troy going 6-6(or possibly 7-6 or 6-7) rather going 8-5.

Now I'm not saying that would have changed the entire dymanic of the league and we would have just reeled off our fifth straight season with at least a share of the league title, but I do think it would have changed things a fair amount. We definitely would have seen a small bump in recruiting from a 9-4 outright champions, bowl winning season over our 7-6 co-champions bowl loser season. Coming off a 9-4 season, maybe we don't go down to FAU and drop the season opener in 2007, or close games to FAU and WKU. Perhaps the seed of doubt against Troy is never really planted, so maybe Troy wins one or both of 2007 and 2008 because they're the better team, but they don't sting quite as much without that 2006 collapse in the back of our minds. Perhaps we're able to win in 2009 with the dynamic of the series altered, which would have meant another outright championship and an 11 win season.

It may be the extreme end of the spectrum, but I think it's at least possible that had we held on in 2006, we would have won a few more games over the years due to improved recruitment(which is not to say we would have jumped to having top 50 classes, but we may have been able to snag just a few impact players we just missed on, which would be enough to change the outcome in a few close games).

As it is we've gone

2006 7-6
2007 5-7
2008 5-7
2009 10-3
2010 6-7

I think we could have gone more like

2006 9-4
2007 7-5
2008 8-4
2009 11-2

2010 is the year that I really don't know how much would have changed, Dasher may have still had the off field exploits that he did, but I think there's a distinct possibility that with improved seasons over the previous few years we might have had another quarterback ready to take the team over, which we didn't have this year. So who knows, 2010 may have played out the same was or it could have been better.


Anyway, all that said, who knows what would have happened? If my extreme scenario had played out, maybe a team comes calling for Stockstill that we couldn't compete with, or maybe our guys get over confident and fall flat on their faces. I suppose at the end of the day, all that matters is Troy has won 5 straight in the series and based on what we both having coming back this year(and even though I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are) I don't expect the trend to change in 2011.

I don't see us doing much of anything next year, Canales I'm sure will have the O ready and we might be able to outscore 3 or 4 teams, but I really don't see more than 4 wins for us. But here's my top 4

1-FIU
2-Troy
3-ULM
4-ASU

(03-26-2011 06:00 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(03-26-2011 12:43 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  If I had to make an estimation it would be this:

2006 Probably should have been a toss-up, but if I had to say which team was better, I would more than likely say Troy, but because we were undefeated in conference at the time and had dominated the game for three quarters, it's viewed as a tremendous choke job by the Blue Raiders(as it probably should be, even if Troy was the better team) if we could have just stopped a 4th and 19 or covered an onside kick that went directly through the hands of one of the guys on our coverage team, we win that game.

2007 I think Troy was the better team, the game was at Troy, and there was a small mental aspect from the way 2006 went down.

2008 Again Troy was the better team and the mental aspect was really setting in.

2009 This is the one year that I think Blue Raider fans can at least make an argument that we have been the better or more talented team. I'm not saying we definitely were, but when you compare the rest of our seasons, this is the one year where the Troy game seems like a total anomaly. There will always be something fishy about that game, about the way Dasher played and/or some of the comments made by Tony Franklin going into the game. I'm not accusing Troy of any wrong doing and I don't want to make any direct accusations about Dasher or Franklin, but again, I will always wonder what really went on in that game, because we were a much better team than we showed in that game and when you compare what each team did to the rest of the conference, that game should have been one for the ages.

2010 The season was a complete mess, I think on paper we had the talent to at least have a chance in 2010, but there was so much going on away from the field in 2010 our team really only played to their potential once or twice all season and they definitely didn't that night against Troy. Had we been able to, I dunno, Troy was probably still the better team and at this point the mental aspect is pretty concrete.


Now all that said, I'd like to jump back to 2006 for a moment. I really think 2006 was the year that really changed the dynamic of the Sun Belt over the last 5 years. Had MT been able to stop that 4th and 19 or fall on that onside kick, we would have gone to New Orleans at 8-4 rather than going to Detroit at 7-5. We would have likely stomped a mudhole in Rice like the Trojans did, rather than running into the Central Michigan buzzsaw. So we would have likely finished 9-4 rather than 7-6. Troy would have been 6-6 after our game, I don't know who else was out there as an at-large, if the Trojans would have ended up in Detriot and who knows how a Troy vs Central Michigan(in a virtual home game) would have played out, but I would say Troy would have had a tough go of it. So that collapse in the final two minutes in 2006 was the likely the difference in MT going 9-4 rather than 7-6 and Troy going 6-6(or possibly 7-6 or 6-7) rather going 8-5.

Now I'm not saying that would have changed the entire dymanic of the league and we would have just reeled off our fifth straight season with at least a share of the league title, but I do think it would have changed things a fair amount. We definitely would have seen a small bump in recruiting from a 9-4 outright champions, bowl winning season over our 7-6 co-champions bowl loser season. Coming off a 9-4 season, maybe we don't go down to FAU and drop the season opener in 2007, or close games to FAU and WKU. Perhaps the seed of doubt against Troy is never really planted, so maybe Troy wins one or both of 2007 and 2008 because they're the better team, but they don't sting quite as much without that 2006 collapse in the back of our minds. Perhaps we're able to win in 2009 with the dynamic of the series altered, which would have meant another outright championship and an 11 win season.

It may be the extreme end of the spectrum, but I think it's at least possible that had we held on in 2006, we would have won a few more games over the years due to improved recruitment(which is not to say we would have jumped to having top 50 classes, but we may have been able to snag just a few impact players we just missed on, which would be enough to change the outcome in a few close games).

As it is we've gone

2006 7-6
2007 5-7
2008 5-7
2009 10-3
2010 6-7

I think we could have gone more like

2006 9-4
2007 7-5
2008 8-4
2009 11-2

2010 is the year that I really don't know how much would have changed, Dasher may have still had the off field exploits that he did, but I think there's a distinct possibility that with improved seasons over the previous few years we might have had another quarterback ready to take the team over, which we didn't have this year. So who knows, 2010 may have played out the same was or it could have been better.


Anyway, all that said, who knows what would have happened? If my extreme scenario had played out, maybe a team comes calling for Stockstill that we couldn't compete with, or maybe our guys get over confident and fall flat on their faces. I suppose at the end of the day, all that matters is Troy has won 5 straight in the series and based on what we both having coming back this year(and even though I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are) I don't expect the trend to change in 2011.

Only the Doc can make these kinds of predictions and statements...

It's so funny, I actually almost made a Back to the Future reference myself. Like I said, I could be way off base on my speculation on how things might have played out differently, but I do think we'd be sitting here with a few more wins in the following years had we gone 9-3 and blown out Rice in New Orleans in 2006.

Quote:I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are

I'm with you. I really like what we have heading into '11.

(03-29-2011 12:27 AM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

Quote:I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are

I'm with you. I really like what we have heading into '11.

Well, I certainly agree that the two of you must be high.

(03-29-2011 07:25 AM)Hemi Man Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 12:27 AM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

Quote:I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are

I'm with you. I really like what we have heading into '11.

Well, I certainly agree that the two of you must be high.

I believe I follow MTSU closer than you do so I know what I'm talking about. I guarantee you that we'll be better than last season. Our out of conference schedule is tough so our record might not show it but we will do well in the conference.

(03-29-2011 01:17 PM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 07:25 AM)Hemi Man Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 12:27 AM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

Quote:I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are

I'm with you. I really like what we have heading into '11.

Well, I certainly agree that the two of you must be high.

I believe I follow MTSU closer than you do so I know what I'm talking about. I guarantee you that we'll be better than last season. Our out off conference schedule is tough so our record might not show it but we will do well in the conference.

Sorry for your misfortune.

(03-29-2011 01:17 PM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 07:25 AM)Hemi Man Wrote:  

(03-29-2011 12:27 AM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

Quote:I'm higher on MT in 2011 than a lot of folks are

I'm with you. I really like what we have heading into '11.

Well, I certainly agree that the two of you must be high.

I believe I follow MTSU closer than you do so I know what I'm talking about. I guarantee you that we'll be better than last season. Our out of conference schedule is tough so our record might not show it but we will do well in the conference.

I'm with you, but we better be at least as good in OOC as we were last year, if we don't beat Memphis next year, I think we're in trouble.

Quote:I'm with you, but we better be at least as good in OOC as we were last year, if we don't beat Memphis next year, I think we're in trouble.

I think Memphis is a must win. Even a down Memphis team will be tough to beat but they are realistically the only OCC game we have a chance of winning.

Quote:Sorry for your misfortune.

Author has ASU losing to FIU...then has FIU losing to ASU.

Author has ASU losing to Mephis...then Memphis losing to ASU on the CUSA page.

Range of 6-6 to 8-4. We'll take it in Coach Freeze's first year.

Ready.

(03-29-2011 03:50 PM)WestEndRaider Wrote:  

Quote:I'm with you, but we better be at least as good in OOC as we were last year, if we don't beat Memphis next year, I think we're in trouble.

I think Memphis is a must win. Even a down Memphis team will be tough to beat but they are realistically the only OCC game we have a chance of winning.

We we will be the better team and playing at home.