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If ECU can bring all of NC
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oasispirate Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction. I didn't see their game vs BC today. Historically speaking Duke would have less than 10k of actual fans in the seats for a game like that. With Duke you must also remember the only reason their attendance is not a complete disaster is because they have so many games against regional opponents that bring fans. WF, UNC, NCSU, VT, Clemson, UVA, and even ECU (when they play us) bring a lot of fans to their stadium.

Also Duke is one of the largest employers in the state, they give away a ton of freebies on a weekly basis or sell them for $5.00 a pop.

When ECU plays at Duke, 2/3 of the stadium are ECU fans. At WF it's probably 50-50. If you guys think those teams have anywhere near the presence of ECU in NC, then my guess is you've never been to North Carolina.
11-13-2010 05:49 PM
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piratefan1975 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Piratenation, those stats show some impressive growth.

Our stadium held 43,000 last year and we averaged very near capacity. I was worried when we expanded the stadium by 7,000 seats that we wouldn't fill it. Through 5 games this year, we're averaging 49,776; just 224 seats shy of averaging a sellout.

We may very well surpass UNC and NCSU in the near future as the top football draw in the state; with or without BCS inclusion.

I would think that the Big East would want a top football draw within a given state. The only one they have now is West Virginia and maybe Rutgers....and UConn.

I see Bill's a UCONN fan. The population of North Carolina's roughly 3 times the population of Connecticut and we draw nearly average nearly 50,000 with four other BCS schools. You're the flagship university in a state of over 3.5 million people and ya'll average 38,524. Seems we're not doing too bad for ourselves.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 06:01 PM by piratefan1975.)
11-13-2010 05:58 PM
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Brick City Pirate Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
I was at the Duke/BC Game today. I saw several ECU fans at the game. There was probably about 20k at the game and this was after back/back wins for Duke. I would love to see what the "Air Raid" would do in the Big East with BCS type talent.
11-13-2010 06:04 PM
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oasispirate Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Good to hear Duke is giving away freebies. My brother works at Duke and turns them down all the time. BTW I just looked a SOS schedule rankings. To date ECU has played a tougher schedule than any team in the Big East. ECU is @45, Pitt @48, and Cincy @52. The rest of the teams are not even close. Even if you don't completely buy those numbers, it is a large disparity. So spare me the massive jump in competition talk :)

We've played the following tough teams....
Tulsa
@VT
@UNC
@So Miss
NCSU
Navy
UCF

The rest
Marshall
Memphis
@UAB

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm
11-13-2010 06:19 PM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:49 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction.

Duke sold boatloads of season tickets to Alabama fans wanting tickets to just the Alabama game, so they're tickets SOLD and that's what is reported.
11-13-2010 06:31 PM
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ConanX Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:49 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction. I didn't see their game vs BC today. Historically speaking Duke would have less than 10k of actual fans in the seats for a game like that. With Duke you must also remember the only reason their attendance is not a complete disaster is because they have so many games against regional opponents that bring fans. WF, UNC, NCSU, VT, Clemson, UVA, and even ECU (when they play us) bring a lot of fans to their stadium.

Also Duke is one of the largest employers in the state, they give away a ton of freebies on a weekly basis or sell them for $5.00 a pop.

When ECU plays at Duke, 2/3 of the stadium are ECU fans. At WF it's probably 50-50. If you guys think those teams have anywhere near the presence of ECU in NC, then my guess is you've never been to North Carolina.

Duke also played Alabama at home. Many of the Alabama fans bought DUKE SEASON Tickets to ensure they had a seat at the game. This years numbers are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. I was also at the Duke-Army game (I'm stationed at Bragg). Pretty much 2/3ds Army fans and pretty much 9/10ths Army fans in the 4th Quarter.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 07:23 PM by ConanX.)
11-13-2010 07:21 PM
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Raleighwood Pirate Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:49 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction. I didn't see their game vs BC today. Historically speaking Duke would have less than 10k of actual fans in the seats for a game like that. With Duke you must also remember the only reason their attendance is not a complete disaster is because they have so many games against regional opponents that bring fans. WF, UNC, NCSU, VT, Clemson, UVA, and even ECU (when they play us) bring a lot of fans to their stadium.

Also Duke is one of the largest employers in the state, they give away a ton of freebies on a weekly basis or sell them for $5.00 a pop.

When ECU plays at Duke, 2/3 of the stadium are ECU fans. At WF it's probably 50-50. If you guys think those teams have anywhere near the presence of ECU in NC, then my guess is you've never been to North Carolina.

The only reason Duke has attendance is from fans that travel well like Alabama, VT, Carolina, NCSU. It inflates their low numbers to higher than they actually are. There is a reason they sell $80 season tickets and no one buys them. Every time we have played there their fans numbered about 6-7K. When I watched VT play there it looked like a VT home game. My friend and I got free tickets from the Duke Box Office, so we could cheer for VT.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 10:55 PM by Raleighwood Pirate.)
11-13-2010 10:21 PM
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oasispirate Offline
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Post: #28
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 10:21 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 05:49 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction. I didn't see their game vs BC today. Historically speaking Duke would have less than 10k of actual fans in the seats for a game like that. With Duke you must also remember the only reason their attendance is not a complete disaster is because they have so many games against regional opponents that bring fans. WF, UNC, NCSU, VT, Clemson, UVA, and even ECU (when they play us) bring a lot of fans to their stadium.

Also Duke is one of the largest employers in the state, they give away a ton of freebies on a weekly basis or sell them for $5.00 a pop.

When ECU plays at Duke, 2/3 of the stadium are ECU fans. At WF it's probably 50-50. If you guys think those teams have anywhere near the presence of ECU in NC, then my guess is you've never been to North Carolina.

The only reason Duke has attendance is from fans that travel well like Alabama, VT, Carolina, NCSU. It inflates their low numbers to higher than they actually are. There is a reason they sell $80 season tickets and no one buys them. Every time we have played there their fans numbered about 6-7K. When I watched VT play there it looked like a VT home game.

Wait a second, you can't live in Raleigh! No one cares about us here remember 03-lmfao!
11-13-2010 10:41 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:10 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.

OK Billy....ECU sucks and that is just the way it is.04-cheers
11-13-2010 10:53 PM
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Raleighwood Pirate Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 10:41 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 10:21 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 05:49 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  I am sorry but those Duke attendance numbers are fiction. I didn't see their game vs BC today. Historically speaking Duke would have less than 10k of actual fans in the seats for a game like that. With Duke you must also remember the only reason their attendance is not a complete disaster is because they have so many games against regional opponents that bring fans. WF, UNC, NCSU, VT, Clemson, UVA, and even ECU (when they play us) bring a lot of fans to their stadium.

Also Duke is one of the largest employers in the state, they give away a ton of freebies on a weekly basis or sell them for $5.00 a pop.

When ECU plays at Duke, 2/3 of the stadium are ECU fans. At WF it's probably 50-50. If you guys think those teams have anywhere near the presence of ECU in NC, then my guess is you've never been to North Carolina.

The only reason Duke has attendance is from fans that travel well like Alabama, VT, Carolina, NCSU. It inflates their low numbers to higher than they actually are. There is a reason they sell $80 season tickets and no one buys them. Every time we have played there their fans numbered about 6-7K. When I watched VT play there it looked like a VT home game.

Wait a second, you can't live in Raleigh! No one cares about us here remember 03-lmfao!

that is what I hear from posters that don't live in NC :)

It is a funny thing. I had an NCSU alum ask me who was carrying the ECU vs UAB game Thursday night because he wanted to watch it. I have been hearing the same thing from a lot of VT alumni that live in the area too. They are following us. A bunch of guys that I work with that went to UNC are following us. I don't think the BE really understands how many people in the Triangle watch ECU and for that case, NC.
11-13-2010 11:12 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #31
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 01:01 PM)whitey Wrote:  Tidewater (Va) and Northern SC TVs to the BEN. Would we be worth having us in the BE?

Only if that can be translated into dollars for broadcast rights. Bringing TV's doesn't do us any good if we can't generate revenue from them. It really is all about the Benjamins.
11-13-2010 11:29 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 11:29 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 01:01 PM)whitey Wrote:  Tidewater (Va) and Northern SC TVs to the BEN. Would we be worth having us in the BE?

Only if that can be translated into dollars for broadcast rights. Bringing TV's doesn't do us any good if we can't generate revenue from them. It really is all about the Benjamins.

Yep...That sums up debate neatly. I would expect with the huge number of NE transplants in the larger NC markets that a BEN would not need a team in NC to boost subscriptions.
11-13-2010 11:51 PM
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paratroopirate Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
You hit the nail on the head....You cant swing a dead cat in North or South Carolina without smashing a dang Northern Transplant in the face. Most of these northern transplant being from the Rutgers, Syracuse and Penn markets. The TV market bit is a cop out, period. If the BE presidents and coaches cant see that fact then they are blind to the obvious. Funny thing is, it is in the south where a large percentage of BE, Big 10 grads retire.
11-14-2010 12:10 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-14-2010 12:10 AM)paratroopirate Wrote:  You hit the nail on the head....You cant swing a dead cat in North or South Carolina without smashing a dang Northern Transplant in the face. Most of these northern transplant being from the Rutgers, Syracuse and Penn markets. The TV market bit is a cop out, period. If the BE presidents and coaches cant see that fact then they are blind to the obvious. Funny thing is, it is in the south where a large percentage of BE, Big 10 grads retire.

Oh come on...You know that is BS. When the Canes play the Devils at home there are hardly any NJ fans there.
11-14-2010 12:22 AM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #35
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:58 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Exactly, people were saying the same thing, that Cincinnati couldn't draw fans because Ohio State was in the area and we would have to convert some of their fans. OSU's attendance hasn't changed and Cincinnati's attendance increased by 15,000 per game, or in that neighborhood. That tells me that a lot of new fans joined Cincinnati's fan base. ECU is doing that now in a non-BCS conference.

Ohio has a larger population (11 million) than NC but Ohio State was its only BCS program. There was room for expansion there. Completely different situation than NC.
11-14-2010 02:36 AM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #36
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:29 PM)whitey Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:44 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:36 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
Quote:If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?

Nope. I said nothing about Cincinnati.

What I'm telling you is that the state is saturated with too many programs all competing for the state's fans. You want to have 5 BCS programs in a state half the size of Florida & 40% the size of Texas - both of which have only 4 BCS programs despite being football crazy states. It ain't going to happen & no one at the Big East is going to invest in a program in that state that hasn't yet proven that it can compete at this level. If ECU had the level of success of TCU, Utah, Boise State, or Louisville (pre-BE), it would be a different story.

Before you state what you don't know. CC is right. NC wants a to root for a successful FB team. NCst & Unc-ch are basketball schools & for years never could get the FB going. We have added 7000 seat & they're sold the minute they were put in. If WE get AQ & we would take the FB fans over night. You would be surprised at how many ppl in this State hates NCst & Unc but they are from up north or they are military & have their home school they pull for. Do you know we do control eastern NC in football especially the military population. We have 2 million ppl within 1 1/2 hrs from us, equal to most cities. Duke & Wake can't even get their fans to go to a FB game. ECU sale the third most FB merchandise in the State. Also this opens up recruiting for BE teams in a pretty strong recruiting base, Va, NC & northern SC. Trust me there are more pluses than minuse, choosing us.

Duke & wake combined for 58,000 fans last year. It's simply wrong to say nobody goes to their games. Those are college fans that aren't available to you guys.

You simply haven't addressed the basic question. Why will you guys succeed at the BCS level when UNC & State have not?

Call them basketball schools if you want but that doesn't mean that they're not competing in football, that they don't have resources, & that they don't have facilities. Plenty of basketball schools also succeed in football. There's no rule that a school can't be successful in both.
11-14-2010 02:41 AM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #37
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:32 PM)oasispirate Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:10 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.


Don't buy those attendance stats you posted, Duke's football attendance is horrible and WF's isn't much better. When it comes to football in the state of NC, ECU is the CLEARCUT #3 behind UNC and NCSU in terms of interest.

If you have different numbers for those 3 schools, please post them. You look foolish & in denial when you dispute a basic fact. Facts are not arguable.

No one disputes that ECU is #3 but being #3 in your own state is not exactly a ringing endorsement - especially when that state has #4 & #5 also competing at the BCS level + one of the most successful FCS programs in the country. That's a crowded field.

You're not living in the real world when you ignore the fact that ECU has not established a consistent record of success that would inspire confidence from the Big East about its chances to succeed at the next level.

You guys repeatedly ask why the Big East doesn't look favorably on your candidacy, but when you get an answer you don't like, you can't accept it. There is a perception from those outside NC whether you like it or not.
11-14-2010 02:48 AM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #38
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 05:41 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  Bill, you just don't understand North Carolina.

I may not understand NC, but you don't seem to understand the thinking of those outside NC - especially the decision makers in the Big East.

Quote:It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.

How can you cite UNC and NCSU's lack of success in the ACC as a tool to extrapolate from that, the theory that ECU would never be successful in the Big East? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. UNC & state have both been trying, have fans in the seats, have budget resources, have facilities, & have name recognition. But they haven't been able to translate those into success on the football field. They're from the same crowded state. Add in Duke & Wake and you have a fistful of teams that have been trying & not succeeding. That's a pretty good sample & it says that something is working against big time success in that location. What does ECU that is so unique that they will succeed where others who have tried have not?

Quote:Then to say, "They've acheived some succes in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level." Wow, I can say the same thing about any of the other expansion candidates except TCU. I welcome you to compare our record of success against BCS competition against any of the other candidates, TCU excluded. It doesn't matter. We've been told time and time again that on-the-field success does not matter. It's all about the number of TV sets in a pre-defined "market."

I agree that ECU has a lot of similarities with other programs not named TCU. That's why I'm not in favor of adding any of those programs either. TCU has been my pick for the Big East for over a year now. It is the only school that has demonstrated that it will be an asset to the conference & will enhance its standing. There is no rush to add anyone else. I'd rather wait & get schools once they've proven that they can rise to the top rather than role the dice on prospects that are nothing but a gamble. Like a lot of other ptospects, ECU hasn't proven anything at this point.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2010 03:04 AM by Bill Marsh.)
11-14-2010 02:59 AM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
US State Population Projections for 2030 - Top 15:

.CA 46,444,861
.TX 33,317,744
.FL 28,685,769
.NY 19,477,429
.IL 13,432,892
.PA 12,768,184
.NC 12,227,739
.GA 12,017,838
.OH 11,550,528
.AZ 10,712,397
.MI 10,694,172
.VA 9,825,019
.NJ 9,802,440
.WA 8,624,801
.TN 7,380,634

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the #3 in the state of NC that is already drawing close to 50K fans a game than either #3 or #4 team in PA where neither can manage 20K.

I realize there are reasons why the league might have to take a Nova or a Temple over an ECU but just saying, the population argument and where a school ranks in terms of their state football popularity isn't one of them for me.

Also, kind of crazy to think about, but by 2030 the Big East could have football teams from 6 of those 15 states. Possibly 7 if it were to get ECU as well.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2010 04:58 AM by omniorange.)
11-14-2010 04:56 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #40
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-14-2010 12:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(11-14-2010 12:10 AM)paratroopirate Wrote:  You hit the nail on the head....You cant swing a dead cat in North or South Carolina without smashing a dang Northern Transplant in the face. Most of these northern transplant being from the Rutgers, Syracuse and Penn markets. The TV market bit is a cop out, period. If the BE presidents and coaches cant see that fact then they are blind to the obvious. Funny thing is, it is in the south where a large percentage of BE, Big 10 grads retire.

Oh come on...You know that is BS. When the Canes play the Devils at home there are hardly any NJ fans there.

I hope you are being sarcastic. Devils, Rangers, Flyers and Sabres draw the biggest visiting crowds outside of the Caps who bus people down.
11-14-2010 07:29 AM
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