FYI, this was November 1 of last year, according to this: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/secureflight/

Quote:Secure Flight is a behind the scenes program that enhances the security of domestic and international commercial air travel through the use of improved watch list matching. By collecting additional passenger data, it will improve the travel experience for all airline passengers, including those who have been misidentified in the past.

When passengers travel, they will be required to provide the following Secure Flight Passenger Data (SFPD) to their airline when making a reservation:

Name as it appears on government-issued I.D. when traveling
Date of Birth
Gender
Redress Number (if available
The airline will transmit this information to Secure Flight, who uses it to perform watch list matching. This serves to prevent individuals on the No Fly List from boarding an aircraft and to identify individuals on the Selectee List for enhanced screening. After matching passenger information against government watch lists, Secure Flight transmits the matching results back to airlines.

They even have a nice little video "Your cooperation helps t-s-a keep the traveling public safe… Every day... at every airport". Sounds like it came straight out of "Total Recall".

(09-28-2010 06:55 AM)I45owl Wrote:  FYI, this was November 1 of last year, according to this: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/secureflight/

Quote:Secure Flight is a behind the scenes program that enhances the security of domestic and international commercial air travel through the use of improved watch list matching. By collecting additional passenger data, it will improve the travel experience for all airline passengers, including those who have been misidentified in the past.

When passengers travel, they will be required to provide the following Secure Flight Passenger Data (SFPD) to their airline when making a reservation:

Name as it appears on government-issued I.D. when traveling
Date of Birth
Gender
Redress Number (if available
The airline will transmit this information to Secure Flight, who uses it to perform watch list matching. This serves to prevent individuals on the No Fly List from boarding an aircraft and to identify individuals on the Selectee List for enhanced screening. After matching passenger information against government watch lists, Secure Flight transmits the matching results back to airlines.

They even have a nice little video "Your cooperation helps t-s-a keep the traveling public safe… Every day... at every airport". Sounds like it came straight out of "Total Recall".

I had to go through one of the millimeter wavelength body scanners at Hartsfield yesterday. They still had to pat me down because the image was blurry. Waiting in line it looked like they had to pat down about 20% of the people passing through.

I refuse to go through those scanners. If I were a TSA worker, I'd be concerned with the radiation exposure working around it all day.

The practical example that demonstrates why I won't go through it: The police have a souped up version of the scanner they use like a taser. It's pumping out more energy, but still the same thing .. a 1mm wave. But it penetrates deep enough into your skin that gives your skin the sensation of intense burning heat. They describe it literally as "opening a blast furnace".

Yeaaaaaaa....

(09-28-2010 08:34 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I refuse to go through those scanners. If I were a TSA worker, I'd be concerned with the radiation exposure working around it all day.

The practical example that demonstrates why I won't go through it: The police have a souped up version of the scanner they use like a taser. It's pumping out more energy, but still the same thing .. a 1mm wave. But it penetrates deep enough into your skin that gives your skin the sensation of intense burning heat. They describe it literally as "opening a blast furnace".

Yeaaaaaaa....

I assume you're talking about Raytheon's Active Denial system, that's now being marketed to US law enforcement.
http://inteldaily.com/2010/08/preparing-...-pain-ray/

It actually operates at 3.2 mm (according to Wikipedia). It's also a logical fallacy to compare the extreme powers between the two. ("The dose makes the poison").

Actually there are two types of full body scanners being tested at US airports. One uses mm waves, the other is x-ray backscattering. I'm not too concerned about the mm waves (did some mmwave spectroscopy in grad school) but I'm very unhappy to learn that low energy x-rays are being used. X-rays damage cells. This can't be good.

Regardless, it does take far longer to go through these scanners. You have to remove every scrap of paper from your pockets, watches, necklaces, etc., and they still usually follow up w/ a pad-down. All of which suggests they aren't worth a damn.

It gives TSA the excuse to spend money (jobs for Americans!). It also gives TSA employees more excuse to exercise their authority as tin-dictators.

I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

(09-28-2010 08:58 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  I assume you're talking about Raytheon's Active Denial system, that's now being marketed to US law enforcement.
http://inteldaily.com/2010/08/preparing-...-pain-ray/

It actually operates at 3.2 mm (according to Wikipedia). It's also a logical fallacy to compare the extreme powers between the two. ("The dose makes the poison").

Actually there are two types of full body scanners being tested at US airports. One uses mm waves, the other is x-ray backscattering. I'm not too concerned about the mm waves (did some mmwave spectroscopy in grad school) but I'm very unhappy to learn that low energy x-rays are being used. X-rays damage cells. This can't be good.

Regardless, it does take far longer to go through these scanners. You have to remove every scrap of paper from your pockets, watches, necklaces, etc., and they still usually follow up w/ a pad-down. All of which suggests they aren't worth a damn.

It gives TSA the excuse to spend money (jobs for Americans!). It also gives TSA employees more excuse to exercise their authority as tin-dictators.

That'd be it. The mobile human hot pocket machine. Welcome to Gitmo. Shut up slave! That has GOT to be a health risk. Cataracts, much?

(09-28-2010 08:58 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 08:34 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I refuse to go through those scanners. If I were a TSA worker, I'd be concerned with the radiation exposure working around it all day.

The practical example that demonstrates why I won't go through it: The police have a souped up version of the scanner they use like a taser. It's pumping out more energy, but still the same thing .. a 1mm wave. But it penetrates deep enough into your skin that gives your skin the sensation of intense burning heat. They describe it literally as "opening a blast furnace".

Yeaaaaaaa....

I assume you're talking about Raytheon's Active Denial system, that's now being marketed to US law enforcement.
http://inteldaily.com/2010/08/preparing-...-pain-ray/

It actually operates at 3.2 mm (according to Wikipedia). It's also a logical fallacy to compare the extreme powers between the two. ("The dose makes the poison").

Actually there are two types of full body scanners being tested at US airports. One uses mm waves, the other is x-ray backscattering. I'm not too concerned about the mm waves (did some mmwave spectroscopy in grad school) but I'm very unhappy to learn that low energy x-rays are being used. X-rays damage cells. This can't be good.

Regardless, it does take far longer to go through these scanners. You have to remove every scrap of paper from your pockets, watches, necklaces, etc., and they still usually follow up w/ a pad-down. All of which suggests they aren't worth a damn.

It gives TSA the excuse to spend money (jobs for Americans!). It also gives TSA employees more excuse to exercise their authority as tin-dictators.

I'm more concerned about the Dentist's office that moved in upstairs. Given the demonstrated incompetence of the contractors that built out their suite, I don't have much confidence that I'm not being bombarded daily. Anyone know where to get a cheap X-Ray detector (and personal injury lawyer :^) )?

I wonder if the radiation exposure from being in the airplane at high altitude is worse than the potential of either X-Ray or mm wave devices? At least that is more predictable ... I believe medical "X-Ray" machines are notorious for being calibrated with wildly inconsistent settings from one machine to another or one manufacturer to another.

(09-27-2010 11:36 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 08:11 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 04:20 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Well the TSA has made it just so, if you are here illegally, you will still be able to board a plane, using what ever forged or acquired documents you happen to have purchased. NICE!!!

Huh??
The whole purpose of this is so that IN ADDITION to scanning your passport at the terminal (where they are likely to catch forgeries) they have a few days to check your name against the don't fly list... particularly if your name is common... adding the birthday. Obviously, we aren't too worried about 7yr old Usama Bin Ladeen or 95yr old Ursula Benaldi... unless they show up and are a 6' tall 55yr old man.

Scan your passport. No, they did not say that. It says "full name, date of birth, gender. A foreign birth certificate would have that info. A foreign drivers license also. Forgeries would be easy. How about a fingerprint or a photo id. No, not needed. Check me on this.... Isn't it true that a foreign person visiting the US for less than 30 days, needs no visa, green card or any other documents? Try that in Mexico.

I'm afraid you're mistaken here. Nothing about border security or passport requirements has changed. The only thing that has changes is that Previously, you only needed first and last names on tickets. NOW you need first, middle and last, plus birthdate so that they can a) check them against the do not fly list (lots of John Smith's, Kim Jong's and Muhammed Faizal's out there) AND compare them against the legal passport/visa documentation you are still required to provide.

and yes... any visitors to Mexico staying less than 30 days don't need a visa... you STILL need a passport, as do visitors to the US.

(09-28-2010 11:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 11:36 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 08:11 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 04:20 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Well the TSA has made it just so, if you are here illegally, you will still be able to board a plane, using what ever forged or acquired documents you happen to have purchased. NICE!!!

Huh??
The whole purpose of this is so that IN ADDITION to scanning your passport at the terminal (where they are likely to catch forgeries) they have a few days to check your name against the don't fly list... particularly if your name is common... adding the birthday. Obviously, we aren't too worried about 7yr old Usama Bin Ladeen or 95yr old Ursula Benaldi... unless they show up and are a 6' tall 55yr old man.

Scan your passport. No, they did not say that. It says "full name, date of birth, gender. A foreign birth certificate would have that info. A foreign drivers license also. Forgeries would be easy. How about a fingerprint or a photo id. No, not needed. Check me on this.... Isn't it true that a foreign person visiting the US for less than 30 days, needs no visa, green card or any other documents? Try that in Mexico.

I'm afraid you're mistaken here. Nothing about border security or passport requirements has changed. The only thing that has changes is that Previously, you only needed first and last names on tickets. NOW you need first, middle and last, plus birthdate so that they can a) check them against the do not fly list (lots of John Smith's, Kim Jong's and Muhammed Faizal's out there) AND compare them against the legal passport/visa documentation you are still required to provide.

and yes... any visitors to Mexico staying less than 30 days don't need a visa... you STILL need a passport, as do visitors to the US.

I have no problem what so ever voluntarily submitting to screening by the carrier to insure safety. I vehemently oppose government security screening.

(09-28-2010 11:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 11:36 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 08:11 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 04:20 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Well the TSA has made it just so, if you are here illegally, you will still be able to board a plane, using what ever forged or acquired documents you happen to have purchased. NICE!!!

Huh??
The whole purpose of this is so that IN ADDITION to scanning your passport at the terminal (where they are likely to catch forgeries) they have a few days to check your name against the don't fly list... particularly if your name is common... adding the birthday. Obviously, we aren't too worried about 7yr old Usama Bin Ladeen or 95yr old Ursula Benaldi... unless they show up and are a 6' tall 55yr old man.

Scan your passport. No, they did not say that. It says "full name, date of birth, gender. A foreign birth certificate would have that info. A foreign drivers license also. Forgeries would be easy. How about a fingerprint or a photo id. No, not needed. Check me on this.... Isn't it true that a foreign person visiting the US for less than 30 days, needs no visa, green card or any other documents? Try that in Mexico.

I'm afraid you're mistaken here. Nothing about border security or passport requirements has changed. The only thing that has changes is that Previously, you only needed first and last names on tickets. NOW you need first, middle and last, plus birthdate so that they can a) check them against the do not fly list (lots of John Smith's, Kim Jong's and Muhammed Faizal's out there) AND compare them against the legal passport/visa documentation you are still required to provide.

and yes... any visitors to Mexico staying less than 30 days don't need a visa... you STILL need a passport, as do visitors to the US.

Some Foreign documentation is NOT uniform to US Standards. Yes or No? TSA will be forced to accept any Foreign documentation? Yes or No? I'm surprised you fail to see the gaping holes in a security system to make sure Old White Grandmas will be searched and Muslim men between the ages of 25-50 will get a pass.

(09-28-2010 12:14 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Some Foreign documentation is NOT uniform to US Standards. Yes or No? TSA will be forced to accept any Foreign documentation? Yes or No? I'm surprised you fail to see the gaping holes in a security system to make sure Old White Grandmas will be searched and Muslim men between the ages of 25-50 will get a pass.

This rule has absolutely nothing to do with border security/Customs. It is new ADDITIONAL requirements for purchasing tickets in the US.

That is all.

I don't fail to see the gaping holes. This doesnt' address them in any way. It is about the "no fly" list, and about better identifying people. As it was until a few months ago, the TSA system only had something like 26 characters... so Amanda Beatrice Hassenfeffer's ticket read Hassenfeffer/Amand. With the large number of long, similar and gender unclear, at least to Amercians, particularly foriegn names... you can see this could be a problem.
That is ALL this addresses. More description in the ticket purchase. It has nothing to do with customs/immigration

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

Thank the Democrats and Daschle. It was his highass paid airline lobbyist wife that got the ball rolling in what I'd like to call "an illegal cooperation". His wife lobbies her husband to transfer security from the airlines to the government and bam, the airlines no longer have that financial burden. ....yet not a peep from the Dems.

(09-28-2010 01:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

BTW, you guys think these machines just appeared on 9/12/01? They've had x-ray machines for decades.

(09-28-2010 01:34 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

BTW, you guys think these machines just appeared on 9/12/01? They've had x-ray machines for decades.

To me the biggest aviation "threat" is a bomb in checked baggage, and not the "hijacker."

So far we haven't had female terrorists insert bombs up their birth canals like the Russians have had to deal with.

Since 9/12/01 anyone trying to hijack a plane would have to fight off every passenger on the plane before they made it to the cockpit door.

(09-28-2010 01:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

Excuse me, bigger gov't, more regulation, = liberal progressive.

(09-27-2010 07:55 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-27-2010 06:42 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  We aren't strangers at all. I know that your name is Raider_ATO, and that you are a Raider fan that was a member of ATO. See, now we are close acquaintances, so what is going on with your mother?

Thanks, old guy who has kids and spends way too much time on here. Or pirate fan-guy who has kids and spends way too much time on here. Maybe both.

The 2nd more than the first.

(09-28-2010 01:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

What seems to be lost on conservatives is that tyranny is tyranny. Why would I fight so hard to keep my rights from the gov't, only to hand them off to a business entity?

You should be equally appalled at unnecessary bureaucracy and regulations that come from an corporation or industry as you are the gov't.

The only way around those from a business is to have competition. So, if you're happy to be inspected by Airline A, but Airline B has similar flights but no inspection, then I guess we can both be happy. But, when A and B collude, or Airline A maneuvers to prevent B from competing in the marketplace (including thru regulation) then I'm disgusted by the thought of surrendering rights. It certainly is no "privilege".

(09-28-2010 01:42 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:34 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 01:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-28-2010 09:05 AM)Rebel Wrote:  I have NO problem going through an X-Ray machine to enjoy the privilege of flying on a company's plane. If I didn't like it, I'd drive.

If it were the company's machine and procedure, then sure. But its the govt's machine and procedure.

THANK YOU!!!!! I hate how the distinction is often lost on conservatives.

BTW, you guys think these machines just appeared on 9/12/01? They've had x-ray machines for decades.

To me the biggest aviation "threat" is a bomb in checked baggage, and not the "hijacker."

So far we haven't had female terrorists insert bombs up their birth canals like the Russians have had to deal with.

Since 9/12/01 anyone trying to hijack a plane would have to fight off every passenger on the plane before they made it to the cockpit door.

Checked bags go into an x-ray machine as well. If something looks fishy, they open it up.