The more and more liberals got involved with education, the less and less the parents stayed involved.

You libs have created a welfare state.


More even handed, well read, and thought provoking commentary from Reb.

(09-13-2010 12:31 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The more and more liberals got involved with education, the less and less the parents stayed involved.

You libs have created a welfare state.


More even handed, well read, and thought provoking commentary from Reb.

Since the 60's, educational standards have gone downhill. In the 60's, the left started to gain a foothold in education. Denying this is about as disingenuous as denying the fact that blacks have regressed since they started voting Dem. Wanna challenge that? Start with out of wedlock birthrates, murder rates, illegitimacy rates, teen pregnancy rates, drop out rates, etc., etc., etc. It's not a mystery of the universe why it happened.

Liberalism, or should I say "progressivism", has completely turned this country upside down.

Educational Standards have improved since the 60's....................

(09-13-2010 12:20 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:Ok, then what are my "pre-concieved gripes"? Put up or shut up, Mach. You make the claim, then back it up.

Teachers, largely "progressives" on the political left just ignore parents and insist on doing things their way.



This...... this can not be farther from the truth.

Sorry, but there's ample evidence that teachers vote on the left. Supporting Dem or farther left.

Secondly, neither of these is "preconceived." They are based on empirical observation, either mine or those compiled by statistics.

You can criticize my observations as anecdotal, that's why I try to augment them w/ additional examples from outside of my personal sphere.

Quote: Here's another nugget. The majority of teacher's I work with are conservative. Voted for GWB both times. This fallacy that teacher's are all hippy anti war flower children. This is a pre concieved gripe from two posts up.

Take a gander as to what "anecdotal" means.

(09-13-2010 12:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Educational Standards have improved since the 60's....................

Hmm. Ok, then from the 1970s.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/t...andal.html

But I think you're nit-picking here.

(09-13-2010 01:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/t...andal.html

Very interesting post. But one thing that post does not address is the effect parental involvement has on student success. That of course does not invalidate the authors opinion, but it is a critical area he failed to address.

I'm kind of open to the school choice argument also. I don't think the "knuckleheads" appreciate the opportunity that they are given. If they actually had to shop and realize the 6700 they are given. Maybe they would appreciate it more.

(09-13-2010 01:25 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/t...andal.html

Very interesting post. But one thing that post does not address is the effect parental involvement has on student success. That of course does not invalidate the authors opinion, but it is a critical area he failed to address.

Also "progressives's" fault. See post 22. It's not kids in suburbia that are having the major problems. For the most part, it's where there is a heavy Democrat involvement.

(09-13-2010 01:32 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:25 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/t...andal.html

Very interesting post. But one thing that post does not address is the effect parental involvement has on student success. That of course does not invalidate the authors opinion, but it is a critical area he failed to address.

Also "progressives's" fault. See post 22. It's not kids in suburbia that are having the major problems. For the most part, it's where there is a heavy Democrat involvement.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying he didn't address it, and you have to address it if you have any chance at fixing education.

(09-13-2010 01:43 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:32 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:25 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 01:07 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/t...andal.html

Very interesting post. But one thing that post does not address is the effect parental involvement has on student success. That of course does not invalidate the authors opinion, but it is a critical area he failed to address.

Also "progressives's" fault. See post 22. It's not kids in suburbia that are having the major problems. For the most part, it's where there is a heavy Democrat involvement.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying he didn't address it, and you have to address it if you have any chance at fixing education.

Kill the welfare state and implement vouchers. Not all kids will be addressed, but at least the ones that have parents that care about their kids' education will have a chance. The libs will just have to chalk the ones left behind as their failure.....and never ever ever try to impose some stupid **** like that again.

(09-13-2010 12:39 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Since the 60's, educational standards have gone downhill.

Reposting from a couple of weeks ago.

1. Teaching Math In 1950s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?

2. Teaching Math In 1960s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980s

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990s

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it's ok. )

6. Teaching Math In 2009

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?



7. Teaching Math In 2010

Who cares, just steal the lumber from your rich neighbor's property. He won't have a gun to stop you, and the President says it's OK anyway cuz its redistributing the wealth.

In regards to the original post, teachers are not evaluated on state tests in my district. Everyone (at least in my school district) knows that these tests are biased, change from year to year, and are generally incompetent ways to measure the success of a student.

In my district, instead, teachers are evaluated on whether their lessons effectively teach a student how to THINK instead of regurgitate the lowest level of facts that others deem important but really have no justification for their supposed importance.

Almost all the teachers I teach with cannot stand the Department of Eduction, Congress, and the state legislators who impose at will (every few years when elections change and who is in charge) a new set of standards. Our hands are tied. What we want is not what we have to do in order to keep a meal on our family's table.

If there is one thing holding back a student from achieving their potential, it is without a doubt, the parents. Blame the schools or teachers all you want, but parents have no idea how to raise their children today.

(09-13-2010 11:27 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  In regards to the original post, teachers are not evaluated on state tests in my district. Everyone (at least in my school district) knows that these tests are biased, change from year to year, and are generally incompetent ways to measure the success of a student.

Biased towards who? The intelligent? I agree. That seems to be the point of a test.

(09-14-2010 07:26 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 11:27 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  In regards to the original post, teachers are not evaluated on state tests in my district. Everyone (at least in my school district) knows that these tests are biased, change from year to year, and are generally incompetent ways to measure the success of a student.

Biased towards who? The intelligent? I agree. That seems to be the point of a test.

http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-kno...who,17966/

(09-14-2010 05:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-14-2010 07:26 AM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 11:27 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  In regards to the original post, teachers are not evaluated on state tests in my district. Everyone (at least in my school district) knows that these tests are biased, change from year to year, and are generally incompetent ways to measure the success of a student.

Biased towards who? The intelligent? I agree. That seems to be the point of a test.

http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-kno...who,17966/

Touche.

(09-13-2010 11:27 PM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  In regards to the original post, teachers are not evaluated on state tests in my district. Everyone (at least in my school district) knows that these tests are biased, change from year to year, and are generally incompetent ways to measure the success of a student.
In my district, instead, teachers are evaluated on whether their lessons effectively teach a student how to THINK instead of regurgitate the lowest level of facts that others deem important but really have no justification for their supposed importance.

I would guess that "Everyone ... knows" actually means, "My fellow teachers with whom I have discussed this (who have a rather large dog in the hunt and are therefore highly biased) have taken the position that..."

I would be interested in knowing just HOW your district evaluates teachers based on whether their lessons effectively teach a student how to THINK (which I agree should be the metric). What are the procedures? Who does what and how to measure this? What consequences are imposed upon teachers and/or students based upon results?

What is the point of this thread? Is it to discuss the original post? Is it to offer any honest suggestions? Is it to bash teachers and modern education? Is it to blame posters so some can feel better about themselves?

I say this because so many of the posts in this thread seem to follow the last two questions from above. I don’t really see anything coming from this discussion except some posters with preconceived (or is it ill-conceived) ideas about education. Yes, I have a personal slant to the issue(s). I am a teacher. Does that make me right or wrong in this discussion? I don’t believe it is either one. I am smart enough to know that modern education is not all rainbows and unicorns but I am not ready to be a myopic demagogue. Reading some of these posts though, it seems obvious to others that I am part of the ‘problem’. No matter what I, or others, say, some of you will not take the time to listen or think. I am fine with that.

Now, if you will kindly do the same by listing your professions (that is if you have any employable skills), so that I and others can trash talk about you and the supposed work that you do.

Sorry if that last post sounded douchebaggery. It wears on one to be constantly bashed for supposed faults of others. Back to the discussion (as long as it remains civil) concerning teacher evaluations. This topic is too complicated to react to with knee-jerk reactionary responses.

Original post asks if said evaluations are based on testing results. In my district the answer is definitely NO. We are evaluated (by the principal and vice principal) on the effectiveness of our daily lessons, classroom management, and ability to follow school board policies. We get observed officially several times a year. Each observation must follow guidelines set forth by the local school board in agreement with our teachers union. Additionally, there are conferences between the teacher and observer.

I can say that I definitely agree with T-Monay820’s first position exactly for the reason he gives in his middle ground argument. ‘What is the First Amendment?’ Seems like a basic question right? Wrong. Examine what you want or expect the student to answer in regards to that question and you will see the problem with state tests. Seriously. What is the answer to that question? I am not being flippant. One can answer that simple question in so many ways it will make your head spin. Which is right and which is wrong? I dare any of you to actually make up a test on a subject and provide a rubric to grade it.

“Naturally the ability to have the basics is important, but a student who can explain the causes and influences is clearly able to think critically.” This is another problem with standardized testing. How does the state test for this ability? Is it just a multiple choice test? Essay test? Or is there alternative assessment? Is the state going to start assigning projects to show this ability? State tests do not really evaluate higher levels of learning. Also, who is paying to grade these tests and how much do they cost? Which subjects are being tested? What are the qualifications of those that are evaluating the tests?

What do you do with a student that realizes the test is insignificant to their permanent record? We have had students realize this and intentionally give bogus answers just to get the test over with. For those that say that schools should use a certain test. Which test is that and why use that test? Should schools use the SAT that most of us are familiar with? Did you know that the SAT does not test for any understanding of American history and government?

For Owl, our district does use long term monitoring. We give quarterly assessments and then use these to identify children who need and then receive extra help. What consequences can you actually give a kid who fails any state test? Hold them back? Do not give them a diploma? What do you suggest? What consequences do you give the teacher? Even if the test doesn’t affect the kid?

In regards to DrTorch, while I respect many of your posts, I don’t understand your position on this topic. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. What exactly do you want from modern American education? You state one position then contradict yourself on the next and I don’t think you are doing it to be amusing and stir the pot. Also, I had no say in what happened 40 years ago. I am working as a teacher today. Should I censure you for that rock and roll music?

I believe that some are blaming education for situations that are actually caused by extraneous stimuli.

For what it is worth, I work in a district that has been rated Excellent by my state for the last 10 years. I have been teaching for 18 years.