http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqPo5ofk0s

Some people are viewing this as a war.

Until our leaders understand that their inaction on illegal immigration has created an invasion of people (40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries) who appear to not have any Allegiance to America, they must be controlled and stopped for inciting insurrection. LaRaza (The Race) has always been the revolutionary arm of the Hispanic people.

I felt that some people here illegally might be granted citizenship. But after this video, I think they are to be granted only a work permit, not citizenship. We have to secure the borders and allow the work permit people to attain citizenship from the end of the line. Legally.

Declare La Raza as a terrorist organization.

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Until our leaders understand that their inaction on illegal immigration has created an invasion of people (40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries) who appear to not have any Allegiance to America, they must be controlled and stopped for inciting insurrection. LaRaza (The Race) has always been the revolutionary arm of the Hispanic people.

I felt that some people here illegally might be granted citizenship. But after this video, I think they are to be granted only a work permit, not citizenship. We have to secure the borders and allow the work permit people to attain citizenship from the end of the line. Legally.

I tend to agree....easier access to the green card would be a good step..along with ZERO government handouts for any non-citizen.

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  ...40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries who appear to not have any Allegiance to America

I just don't see this. Perhaps it's because I live in Southern California. For every protester I see on TV, I see 10 immigrants (or more) working their asses off to get by, thankful for the opportunity. And I assume the "40 million" includes native born citizens? Why assume that they have any loyalty to a country other than the US? In my experience, doing so is a pretty huge insult. I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

That's similar to my experience in Texas, but I wouldn't have figured that would project to SoCal.

One of the things I fear about uncontrolled immigration is the radical politics that may come with it, but I am sure that only a fraction of those who choose to come up here are really radicals like this. And, you could just as easily hear this kind of speech from an Anglo Anarchist up in Seattle as someone from La Raza. But, it is a factor to consider.

(05-10-2010 01:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

That's similar to my experience in Texas, but I wouldn't have figured that would project to SoCal.

One of the things I fear about uncontrolled immigration is the radical politics that may come with it, but I am sure that only a fraction of those who choose to come up here are really radicals like this. And, you could just as easily hear this kind of speech from an Anglo Anarchist up in Seattle as someone from La Raza. But, it is a factor to consider.

I would like to know how many La Raza spokespeople/leaders/radicals are NOT native born Americans. I get the impression that La Raza is sending their message south of the border, rather than the other way around, by advocating for illegal immigration, amnesty, etc.

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  ...40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries who appear to not have any Allegiance to America

I just don't see this. Perhaps it's because I live in Southern California. For every protester I see on TV, I see 10 immigrants (or more) working their asses off to get by, thankful for the opportunity. And I assume the "40 million" includes native born citizens? Why assume that they have any loyalty to a country other than the US? In my experience, doing so is a pretty huge insult. I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

Thats a figure used in the video. You don't understand the "potential Hispanic Revolutionaries " part. I know you don't want to see this, but we are being invaded, and they are using our system against us. People need to get their heads out of the sand and open their eyes. Muslim and Hispanic are the 2 largest growth populations in the country. I have no problem as long as, it's got to be legal, by the rules. Texas has the largest undocumented immigrant population in the country. And what are we doing about it. Nothing, absolutely nothing. And why...... because people don't see it. Congratulations. Owls need day vision.

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  ...40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries who appear to not have any Allegiance to America

I just don't see this. Perhaps it's because I live in Southern California. For every protester I see on TV, I see 10 immigrants (or more) working their asses off to get by, thankful for the opportunity. And I assume the "40 million" includes native born citizens? Why assume that they have any loyalty to a country other than the US? In my experience, doing so is a pretty huge insult. I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

Thankful for the opportunity, but sending the fruits of that opportunity back home. My experience is that many are here simply to get money to send home... not here to build a better life HERE... hence the loyalty issue. It seems that illegals are more likely to fit this mold than legals.... I realize the reality of sending money to your family to make their life better, but sending money overseas to be spent in that economy simply supports the regime that created the poor situation they are sacrificing to overcome. Their family does better, but so do the politicians who made their situation bad in the first place

(05-10-2010 01:31 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  ...40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries who appear to not have any Allegiance to America

I just don't see this. Perhaps it's because I live in Southern California. For every protester I see on TV, I see 10 immigrants (or more) working their asses off to get by, thankful for the opportunity. And I assume the "40 million" includes native born citizens? Why assume that they have any loyalty to a country other than the US? In my experience, doing so is a pretty huge insult. I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

Thats a figure used in the video. You don't understand the "potential Hispanic Revolutionaries " part. I know you don't want to see this, but we are being invaded, and they are using our system against us. People need to get their heads out of the sand and open their eyes. Muslim and Hispanic are the 2 largest growth populations in the country. I have no problem as long as, it's got to be legal, by the rules. Texas has the largest undocumented immigrant population in the country. And what are we doing about it. Nothing, absolutely nothing. And why...... because people don't see it. Congratulations. Owls need day vision.

Pay attention - we've had this conversation before and you still have no idea what I do and don't want to see. What "we" are doing about this is worse than nothing: The government is and has been encouraging the violation of immigration law. Right or wrong, there are many on both sides of the aisle who believe that our economy requires cheap immigrant labor. Farm subsidies, anyone? Doesn't that sound like the Feds are incentivizing farmers/farm corps/foreigners to break the law? Something needs to be done to repair immigration law and/or a decision needs to be made to enforce the laws that we think are necessary. But it is not arguable that even illegal immigrants make a contribution to our economy through the payment of taxes (sales AND income, although the latter may not be very significant) and the purchase of goods and services in the US. I'm not saying they are completely paying for the services they use but it's not correct to portray them as a complete drain.

To imply that illegal immigration is even remotely revolutionary is simply inflammatory and just doesn't make any sense. It's almost laughable. People coming here from Latin America are largely destitute, uneducated, and uninformed, and typically in survival mode. Yes, many of them intend to send money home and it too often seems like Mexican politicians (in particular) seem to advocate for illegal immigration for exactly this fact. I find that very troubling but it's just not the stuff of revolution. It's Americans (La Raza) who are inciting revolution and I find it difficult to believe that the run of the mill illegal immigrant even knows who these people are, let alone connects with the message.

(05-10-2010 03:33 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  To imply that illegal immigration is even remotely revolutionary is simply inflammatory and just doesn't make any sense. It's almost laughable. People coming here from Latin America are largely destitute, uneducated, and uninformed, and typically in survival mode. Yes, many of them intend to send money home and it too often seems like Mexican politicians (in particular) seem to advocate for illegal immigration for exactly this fact. I find that very troubling but it's just not the stuff of revolution. It's Americans (La Raza) who are inciting revolution and I find it difficult to believe that the run of the mill illegal immigrant even knows who these people are, let alone connects with the message.

They connect with any message that promises them "more." Doesn't matter if it makes sense, but they'll support it, implicitly and explicitly, if they think they'll get "more."

(05-10-2010 03:33 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 01:31 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 12:43 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 07:55 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  ...40 million Hispanics North of the Rio Grande as espoused in the video are potential Hispanic Revolutionaries who appear to not have any Allegiance to America

I just don't see this. Perhaps it's because I live in Southern California. For every protester I see on TV, I see 10 immigrants (or more) working their asses off to get by, thankful for the opportunity. And I assume the "40 million" includes native born citizens? Why assume that they have any loyalty to a country other than the US? In my experience, doing so is a pretty huge insult. I know more than a few native born Americans with Mexican or other South/Central American heritage who are conservative, Stars and Stripes flying patriots. Many of whom resent the presence of illegal aliens, as a matter of fact.

Thats a figure used in the video. You don't understand the "potential Hispanic Revolutionaries " part. I know you don't want to see this, but we are being invaded, and they are using our system against us. People need to get their heads out of the sand and open their eyes. Muslim and Hispanic are the 2 largest growth populations in the country. I have no problem as long as, it's got to be legal, by the rules. Texas has the largest undocumented immigrant population in the country. And what are we doing about it. Nothing, absolutely nothing. And why...... because people don't see it. Congratulations. Owls need day vision.

Pay attention - we've had this conversation before and you still have no idea what I do and don't want to see. What "we" are doing about this is worse than nothing: The government is and has been encouraging the violation of immigration law. Right or wrong, there are many on both sides of the aisle who believe that our economy requires cheap immigrant labor. Farm subsidies, anyone? Doesn't that sound like the Feds are incentivizing farmers/farm corps/foreigners to break the law? Something needs to be done to repair immigration law and/or a decision needs to be made to enforce the laws that we think are necessary. But it is not arguable that even illegal immigrants make a contribution to our economy through the payment of taxes (sales AND income, although the latter may not be very significant) and the purchase of goods and services in the US. I'm not saying they are completely paying for the services they use but it's not correct to portray them as a complete drain.

To imply that illegal immigration is even remotely revolutionary is simply inflammatory and just doesn't make any sense. It's almost laughable. People coming here from Latin America are largely destitute, uneducated, and uninformed, and typically in survival mode. Yes, many of them intend to send money home and it too often seems like Mexican politicians (in particular) seem to advocate for illegal immigration for exactly this fact. I find that very troubling but it's just not the stuff of revolution. It's Americans (La Raza) who are inciting revolution and I find it difficult to believe that the run of the mill illegal immigrant even knows who these people are, let alone connects with the message.

Illegal Immigration lite, what you are saying is exactly what has gotten us into this mess. Laugh all you like. Cesar fiddled..... They are not in survival mode unless you think drug smuggling, kidnapping, identity theft, murder, robbery, human trafficking is not a "Complete Drain". Anything they contribute is offset 100 fold, no 1,000,000 fold. Can you even put a number to the death and suffering toll of these people and their families. Its a crisis of epidemic proportions and you continue to and fail to recognize it.

Government encouragement has to stop. It will never come from politicians, it will be from the people.

(05-10-2010 03:33 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  What "we" are doing about this is worse than nothing: The government is and has been encouraging the violation of immigration law. Right or wrong, there are many on both sides of the aisle who believe that our economy requires cheap immigrant labor. Farm subsidies, anyone? Doesn't that sound like the Feds are incentivizing farmers/farm corps/foreigners to break the law? Something needs to be done to repair immigration law and/or a decision needs to be made to enforce the laws that we think are necessary. But it is not arguable that even illegal immigrants make a contribution to our economy through the payment of taxes (sales AND income, although the latter may not be very significant) and the purchase of goods and services in the US. I'm not saying they are completely paying for the services they use but it's not correct to portray them as a complete drain.

This is where the willful ignorance comes in. It's no accident that Texas and California have these problems. Aside from being border states, they have also historically benefited from migrant workers. It's not surprising that Mexicans don't respect immigration laws of the United States when those laws have been nothing more than a wink and a nod for a century plus some.

(05-10-2010 03:47 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Anything they contribute is offset 100 fold, no 1,000,000 fold. Can you even put a number to the death and suffering toll of these people and their families. Its a crisis of epidemic proportions and you continue to and fail to recognize it.

... Says the official drama queen of the Spin Room.

(05-10-2010 03:43 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 03:33 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  To imply that illegal immigration is even remotely revolutionary is simply inflammatory and just doesn't make any sense. It's almost laughable. People coming here from Latin America are largely destitute, uneducated, and uninformed, and typically in survival mode. Yes, many of them intend to send money home and it too often seems like Mexican politicians (in particular) seem to advocate for illegal immigration for exactly this fact. I find that very troubling but it's just not the stuff of revolution. It's Americans (La Raza) who are inciting revolution and I find it difficult to believe that the run of the mill illegal immigrant even knows who these people are, let alone connects with the message.

They connect with any message that promises them "more." Doesn't matter if it makes sense, but they'll support it, implicitly and explicitly, if they think they'll get "more."

That's a logical premise but I'm not certain it actually happens. Look, I'm in Los Angeles and we've got a huge illegal population, as well as a mayor who sometimes sounds like a La Raza booster. Yet the people doing all the yelling and protesting (and I've got to tell you; it's not that big a number) are almost entirely Americans. Some white, more not but they're citizens or legal residents. Let's face it, illegal immigrants are not prone to speaking up because they don't want to get caught.

SOAF Wrote:Illegal Immigration lite, what you are saying is exactly what has gotten us into this mess. Laugh all you like. Cesar fiddled..... They are not in survival mode unless you think drug smuggling, kidnapping, identity theft, murder, robbery, human trafficking is not a "Complete Drain". Anything they contribute is offset 100 fold, no 1,000,000 fold. Can you even put a number to the death and suffering toll of these people and their families. Its a crisis of epidemic proportions and you continue to and fail to recognize it.

Sakes alive, man. Cesar fiddled? That really is one of your more Robert-esque points (except of course, for the intellectually inclined reference). Did you read every third word? Nothing in my earlier post implied I don't believe this is a problem. I just don't think characterizing immigrants as the primary boogeymen/women is going to solve anything when we (US government) are encouraging them to cross the border.

(05-10-2010 03:55 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-10-2010 03:47 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Anything they contribute is offset 100 fold, no 1,000,000 fold. Can you even put a number to the death and suffering toll of these people and their families. Its a crisis of epidemic proportions and you continue to and fail to recognize it.

... Says the official drama queen of the Spin Room.

$351,250 unfunded liability per citizen. Our futures are being plundered. But OH, You're just being the "Drama Queen" says the Fool of the Spin Room.