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Drill baby drill...........
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 10:33 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This may turn out to be Obama's Katrina. Economic loses could be devastating.

I don't know about that. Probably won't be, if for no other reason than the media are going to give him the free ride they never gave Shrub. Probably shouldn't be, either; not really his fault.

Now, if he uses this as an excuse to shut down offshore drilling for any appreciable period of time, he will just bring us closer to the edge of total disaster; oil prices will increase significantly as speculators step in big-time, and that could destroy what "recovery" is now underway. In that case, he would be sowing what he reaped, and deservedly so.

I've always believed that Obama's energy policy will have us importing more in 2015 than we do today, barring economic collapse, and I still believe that. Any overreaction here would simplay make that far worse.
04-30-2010 11:21 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 11:17 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Oil drilling is really safe because of the technology.

Nobody with any knowledge of the industry should have ever said that. What has been said, and is true, is that the risks of drilling are lower than the risks of oil tankers. That is pretty well established. So, as long as we need oil, the lowest risk solution is to drill here. That's lowest risk, as in lowest environmental risk, lowest political risk, lowest economic risk, lowest risk, period.
04-30-2010 11:25 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 11:17 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-29-2010 01:14 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(04-29-2010 01:09 PM)RobertN Wrote:  As usual, you missed the point. I shouldn't be shocked though, you miss them all the time. Not sure if it is because you can't read or if it is just you are incapable of thinking though.

...and, as usual, you demonstrate your lack of the ability to pen a coherent sentence.
How about this. Ther will not be any major nuclear accidents because the technology is so good. At the same time. Oil drilling is really safe because of the technology. Then you bash GTS for his belief on nuclear plants, yet this oil spill proves that no matter how much technology you have, accidents happen.

I for one have never said that there will not be any nuclear accidents. As far as design, Chernobyl represents probably the worst of it. Even as bad as the human reaction with TMI was, the net environmental impact is negligible in that case. When the likely top-end of the risks of nuclear plants is less than the likely annual impacts of other fuel sources, then my argument is that nuclear plants look very good in comparison.
04-30-2010 11:26 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 10:33 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This may turn out to be Obama's Katrina. Economic loses could be devastating.
I was going to say "another attempt a bashing Obama for no reason" but as I said in another post, I think fed govt help has been a little slow.
04-30-2010 11:26 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Drill baby drill...........
This is turning out to be far and away worse than anyone expected. The loss of 11 souls is tragic, but the Obama Admin. has let BP control the narrative, and that will tarnish Obama, no doubt, no spin. This is turning out to be a crisis of epic proportion. This blowout is in 5000 ft. of water and Obama wants to explore in the Atlantic which is deeper and more dangerous, but closed Bristol Bay to exploration which is far shallower, safer and can generate oil far sooner. So as I'm counting One, Two, Three Strikes .... Obama OUT.
04-30-2010 11:39 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 11:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is turning out to be far and away worse than anyone expected. The loss of 11 souls is tragic, but the Obama Admin. has let BP control the narrative, and that will tarnish Obama, no doubt, no spin. This is turning out to be a crisis of epic proportion. This blowout is in 5000 ft. of water and Obama wants to explore in the Atlantic which is deeper and more dangerous, but closed Bristol Bay to exploration which is far shallower, safer and can generate oil far sooner. So as I'm counting One, Two, Three Strikes .... Obama OUT.

You're talking about a general public who saw Exxon Valdez as a reason not to drill offshore. They're not good at linking cause and effect. And the media types who (a) have a slobbering love affair with Obama, and (b) as Joe Namath said, went into journalism because they couldn't pass basket-weaving, aren't going to clarify matters.
04-30-2010 11:43 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 11:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 11:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is turning out to be far and away worse than anyone expected. The loss of 11 souls is tragic, but the Obama Admin. has let BP control the narrative, and that will tarnish Obama, no doubt, no spin. This is turning out to be a crisis of epic proportion. This blowout is in 5000 ft. of water and Obama wants to explore in the Atlantic which is deeper and more dangerous, but closed Bristol Bay to exploration which is far shallower, safer and can generate oil far sooner. So as I'm counting One, Two, Three Strikes .... Obama OUT.

You're talking about a general public who saw Exxon Valdez as a reason not to drill offshore. They're not good at linking cause and effect. And the media types who (a) have a slobbering love affair with Obama, and (b) as Joe Namath said, went into journalism because they couldn't pass basket-weaving, aren't going to clarify matters.

The same people that see Three Mile Island and Love Canal as a reason to stop building Nuclear and demonized the Chemical Industry. No matter how much flak Obama gets, no matter how much should stick, he will use this crisis as all the others, just like the burning of the Reichstag was used. Obama the first American dictator.
04-30-2010 12:05 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 11:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is turning out to be far and away worse than anyone expected. The loss of 11 souls is tragic, but the Obama Admin. has let BP control the narrative, and that will tarnish Obama, no doubt, no spin. This is turning out to be a crisis of epic proportion. This blowout is in 5000 ft. of water and Obama wants to explore in the Atlantic which is deeper and more dangerous, but closed Bristol Bay to exploration which is far shallower, safer and can generate oil far sooner. So as I'm counting One, Two, Three Strikes .... Obama OUT.

If he's out, it won't be because of this. The hurricane wasn't anyone's fault, and there aren't private companies that would go in there and rescue people from Katrina's effects. In this case, BP caused the situation and presumably has some ability to handle the situation without government help (they better!), unless it is asked for. I'd want the government to be reimbursed for any expenses for helping with this, and that would require BP to agree to pay for it, assuming they want the help.
04-30-2010 02:23 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 11:39 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  This is turning out to be far and away worse than anyone expected. The loss of 11 souls is tragic, but the Obama Admin. has let BP control the narrative, and that will tarnish Obama, no doubt, no spin. This is turning out to be a crisis of epic proportion. This blowout is in 5000 ft. of water and Obama wants to explore in the Atlantic which is deeper and more dangerous, but closed Bristol Bay to exploration which is far shallower, safer and can generate oil far sooner. So as I'm counting One, Two, Three Strikes .... Obama OUT.

If he's out, it won't be because of this. The hurricane wasn't anyone's fault, and there aren't private companies that would go in there and rescue people from Katrina's effects. In this case, BP caused the situation and presumably has some ability to handle the situation without government help (they better!), unless it is asked for. I'd want the government to be reimbursed for any expenses for helping with this, and that would require BP to agree to pay for it, assuming they want the help.

Not because of the blowout, but the aftermath. Bush was blamed for the Aftermath of Katrina, not because of the hurricane. Bush couldn't move in without LA. Governor asking for help. Balnko waited too long and Bush got the bad rap for not moving in sooner. The post Katrina Bush's admin. was marked as ineffectual after that. I predict the same for Obama.
04-30-2010 04:06 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Drill baby drill...........
I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.
04-30-2010 04:38 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 04:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.

There are a few more horrific situations unfolding. The oyster, shrimp, fish and tourism industry in collapse for the entire Gulf. There's not enough insurance in the world to cover that, especially if they cannot cap the wellhead more than a mile down. They don't even know if they can get to it, the massive drilling rig might be on top of it. This may be the worse environmental disaster in US history.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2010 05:17 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
04-30-2010 05:16 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 09:50 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But if BP didn't fry for Texas City, they certainly should for this. If that's guilty until proven innocent thinking, I apologize. But I know a thing or two about offshore drilling, and it's going to be very hard for me to decide that they aren't grossly negligent here.

Things are still leaking, spilling, and catching on fire down at BP-Texas City. Just injuries and no deaths. Working in a refinery is not the safest place, but BP-Texas City is a dinosaur in terms of the age of the plant.

I think "BP cuts corners once again" is a fair statement.
05-01-2010 12:28 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(04-30-2010 05:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 04:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.

There are a few more horrific situations unfolding. The oyster, shrimp, fish and tourism industry in collapse for the entire Gulf. There's not enough insurance in the world to cover that, especially if they cannot cap the wellhead more than a mile down. They don't even know if they can get to it, the massive drilling rig might be on top of it. This may be the worse environmental disaster in US history.
worst. This is one of those grammar mistakes that really bugs me. Most don't(since I make them all the time) but this one bothers me.
05-01-2010 01:06 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(05-01-2010 01:06 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 05:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 04:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.

There are a few more horrific situations unfolding. The oyster, shrimp, fish and tourism industry in collapse for the entire Gulf. There's not enough insurance in the world to cover that, especially if they cannot cap the wellhead more than a mile down. They don't even know if they can get to it, the massive drilling rig might be on top of it. This may be the worse environmental disaster in US history.
worst. This is one of those grammar mistakes that really bugs me. Most don't(since I make them all the time) but this one bothers me.

We surely can understand why certain words bug you. Your posts demonstrate the simpleton that you are. Coupled with your low comprehension, it a true wonder to all of us here that you are able to survive at all.
05-01-2010 02:17 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Drill baby drill...........
BP Plan Deemed Major Spill from Gulf Well Unlikely

Saturday, 01 May 2010 08:25 AM

MOUTH OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER – The worst U.S. oil spill in decades reached into precious shoreline habitat along the Gulf Coast as documents emerged showing British Petroleum downplayed the possibility of a catastrophic accident at the offshore rig that exploded.

BP suggested in a 2009 exploration plan and environmental impact analysis for the well that an accident leading to a giant crude oil spill — and serious damage to beaches, fish and mammals — was unlikely, or virtually impossible.

The Coast Guard estimates now that at least 1.6 million gallons of oil have spilled since the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers. The amount already threatens to make it the worst U.S. oil disaster since the Exxon Valdez spilled 11 million gallons off Alaska's shores in 1989.

"The sort of occurrence that we've seen on the Deepwater Horizon is clearly unprecedented," BP spokesman David Nicholas told The Associated Press on Friday. "It's something that we have not experienced before ... a blowout at this depth."

The plan for the Deepwater Horizon well, filed with the federal Minerals Management Service, said repeatedly that it was "unlikely that an accidental surface or subsurface oil spill would occur from the proposed activities."

The company conceded a spill would impact beaches, wildlife refuges and wilderness areas, but argued that "due to the distance to shore (48 miles) and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts are expected."

Robert Wiygul, an Ocean Springs, Miss.-based environmental lawyer and board member for the Gulf Restoration Network, said he doesn't see anything in the document suggesting BP addressed the kind of technology needed to control a spill at that depth of water.

"The point is, if you're going to be drilling in 5,000 feet of water for oil, you should have the ability to control what you're doing," he said.

The spill — a slick more than 130 miles long and 70 miles wide — threatens hundreds of species of wildlife, including birds, dolphins and the fish, shrimp, oysters and crabs that make the Gulf Coast one of the nation's most abundant sources of seafood. Because of the risk of oil contamination, Louisiana closed some fishing grounds and oyster beds.

As of Friday, only a sheen of oil from the edges of the slick was washing up at Venice, La., and other extreme southeastern portions of Louisiana. But animal rescue operations ramped up, including one at Fort Jackson, about 70 miles southeast of New Orleans. That rescue crew had its first patient, a bird covered in thick, black oil. The bird, a young northern gannet found offshore, is normally white with a yellow head.

Several miles out, the normally blue-green gulf waters were dotted with sticky, pea- to quarter-sized brown beads the consistency of tar. High seas were forecast through Sunday and could push oil deep into the inlets, ponds, creeks and lakes that line the boot of southeastern Louisiana. With the wind blowing from the south, the mess could reach the Mississippi, Alabama and Florida coasts by Monday.

Amid increased fingerpointing, efforts sputtered to hold back the spill, while the government desperately cast about for new ideas for dealing with the growing environmental crisis. President Barack Obama halted any new offshore drilling projects unless rigs have new safeguards to prevent another disaster.

Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, met with fishermen and others Friday night in Venice and said she had participated in a conference call earlier with governors from the Gulf states and BP. Stemming the flow of oil is the top priority, she said.

"There is very deep concern about what is happening," she told the group.

However, the seas were too rough and the winds too strong to burn off the oil, suck it up effectively with skimmer vessels, or hold it in check with the miles of orange and yellow inflatable booms strung along the coast.

The floating barriers broke loose in the choppy water, and waves sent oily water lapping over them.

"It just can't take the wave action," said Billy Nungesser, president of Louisiana's Plaquemines Parish.

Louisiana officials opened gates in the Mississippi River hoping a flood of fresh water would drive oil away from the coast. But winds thwarted that plan, too. The Louisiana National Guard was mobilized late Friday to help communities respond to the spill and the Pentagon said BP will be required to pay the costs of deployment.

BP also sought ideas from some of its rivals and was using at least one of them Friday — applying chemicals underwater to break up the oil before it reaches the surface. That had never before been attempted at such depths.

Although the cause of the explosion was under investigation, many of the more than two dozen lawsuits filed in the wake of the explosion claim it was caused when workers for oil services contractor Halliburton Inc. improperly capped the well — a process known as cementing. Halliburton denied it.

Crews have struggled for days without success to activate the well's underwater shutoff valve using remotely operated vehicles. They also are drilling a relief well in hopes of injecting mud and concrete to seal off the leak, but that could take three months.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press.
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2010 02:25 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
05-01-2010 02:21 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(05-01-2010 01:06 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 05:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 04:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.

There are a few more horrific situations unfolding. The oyster, shrimp, fish and tourism industry in collapse for the entire Gulf. There's not enough insurance in the world to cover that, especially if they cannot cap the wellhead more than a mile down. They don't even know if they can get to it, the massive drilling rig might be on top of it. This may be the worse environmental disaster in US history.
worst. This is one of those grammar mistakes that really bugs me. Most don't(since I make them all the time) but this one bothers me.

t (

This is one of those grammar mistakes that doesn't really bug me. I just like pointing out that every single time you highlight someone else's mistake, you make one of your own. Usually four. Quite often it's the same one you made this time. And it's two if you count the comma you left out.
05-01-2010 03:57 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Drill baby drill...........
Satellite Images Shows Spill Tripling in Size

Saturday, 01 May 2010 12:29 PM

The oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico has grown tremendously in just a day or so.

Satellite images analyzed by the University of Miami show the spill has expanded from the size of Rhode Island to something closer to the size of Puerto Rico, close to tripling.

Hans Graber, executive director of the university's Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing, said Saturday that the spill is moving faster and expanding much quicker than estimated.

Graber says the size of the slick was about 1,150 square miles on Thursday. By the end of Friday, he says it had tripled to about 3,850 square miles.

Graber says estimates of only 1,000 barrels spilling a day seem to be more public relations than anything accurate.


Copyright 2010 The Associated Press

[Image: 05-01-2010_ctars-300x250.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2010 05:00 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
05-01-2010 04:57 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(05-01-2010 03:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(05-01-2010 01:06 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 05:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(04-30-2010 04:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I simply can't see Obama being out because of this. At least not the blowout.

I could see this leading to a cessation of domestic drilling, leaving us even more vulnerable to OPEC price hikes. I could see OPEC jacking the price up in that situation, and wrecking our economy. I could see him being out if that happens. But there'd be quite a few hoops to jump through before that happens.

There are a few more horrific situations unfolding. The oyster, shrimp, fish and tourism industry in collapse for the entire Gulf. There's not enough insurance in the world to cover that, especially if they cannot cap the wellhead more than a mile down. They don't even know if they can get to it, the massive drilling rig might be on top of it. This may be the worse environmental disaster in US history.
worst. This is one of those grammar mistakes that really bugs me. Most don't(since I make them all the time) but this one bothers me.

t (

This is one of those grammar mistakes that doesn't really bug me. I just like pointing out that every single time you highlight someone else's mistake, you make one of your own. Usually four. Quite often it's the same one you made this time. And it's two if you count the comma you left out.
That isn't a "grammar" mistake. It is more of a typo but thanks for pointing it out.

Btw, I said grammar mistakes don't really bother me because I make them all the time. This just happens to be one that bothers me.
05-01-2010 05:28 PM
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RE: Drill baby drill...........
(05-01-2010 04:57 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Satellite Images Shows Spill Tripling in Size

Saturday, 01 May 2010 12:29 PM

The oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico has grown tremendously in just a day or so.

Satellite images analyzed by the University of Miami show the spill has expanded from the size of Rhode Island to something closer to the size of Puerto Rico, close to tripling.

Hans Graber, executive director of the university's Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing, said Saturday that the spill is moving faster and expanding much quicker than estimated.

Graber says the size of the slick was about 1,150 square miles on Thursday. By the end of Friday, he says it had tripled to about 3,850 square miles.

Graber says estimates of only 1,000 barrels spilling a day seem to be more public relations than anything accurate.


Copyright 2010 The Associated Press

[Image: 05-01-2010_ctars-300x250.jpg]
Once the spill hits Florida, how well do you think the tea-bagging socialist nutcase will do in the race for senate?
05-01-2010 05:33 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Drill baby drill...........
(05-01-2010 05:33 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(05-01-2010 04:57 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Satellite Images Shows Spill Tripling in Size

Saturday, 01 May 2010 12:29 PM

The oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico has grown tremendously in just a day or so.

Satellite images analyzed by the University of Miami show the spill has expanded from the size of Rhode Island to something closer to the size of Puerto Rico, close to tripling.

Hans Graber, executive director of the university's Center for Southeastern Tropical Advanced Remote Sensing, said Saturday that the spill is moving faster and expanding much quicker than estimated.

Graber says the size of the slick was about 1,150 square miles on Thursday. By the end of Friday, he says it had tripled to about 3,850 square miles.

Graber says estimates of only 1,000 barrels spilling a day seem to be more public relations than anything accurate.


Copyright 2010 The Associated Press

[Image: 05-01-2010_ctars-300x250.jpg]
Once the spill hits Florida, how well do you think the tea-bagging socialist nutcase will do in the race for senate?

Your ignorance abounds. This is Obama's problem. The Democrats have shown us nothing but failure. They are in control.

Jobs = Disaster
Economy = Disaster
Stimulus = Disaster
Spending = Disaster
Debt = Disaster
Healthcare = Disaster
SS = Disaster
Secure the Border = Disaster
Immigration = Disaster
Cap $ Tax = Disaster
Financial Reform = Disaster
Transparency = Disaster

I could go on....

Florida will not be fooled by the long legged mack daddy again.
05-01-2010 05:44 PM
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