(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types

Discussion is all fine and fair, but please let's try not to be so rude.

That is why most of us are OK with adding ONE (1) FB only, for scheduling purposes. That was already being discussed anyway. But we see no real value in adding 4 teams, diluting the revenue, at this time. We will find out in a few months if it is actually needed anyway. A few months won't make any difference, and we may find out that adding all these teams weren't needed anyway.

(04-21-2010 09:34 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 08:19 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 07:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  The Big East doesn't know:

If any of their teams will be leaving
If a team or teams do leave, which one or one(s)
If a team or teams do leave what is the BE losing as a result i.e. what level of competition in what sports, what markets, etc.
If other BCS leagues in the region will be losing teams
If other BCS leagues in the region expand, will they also look to the BE for expansion
Would BE teams accept this secondary expansion
If there will be a need for football after defections in the Big East

It would make no sense whatsoever for the existing schools to add a bunch of schools that improve nothing, stop no one from leaving, drain finances, etc.

As someone said, if you could bring over other BCS teams, great. Otherwise it makes no sense.

You could end up with a situation where the bb schools are the only remaining schools and now they are left with a very diminished and scattered level of league members for football.

Then don't complain when the Big 10 does decide to take a team and the Big East is caught with it's pants down. They could bring in UCF now, and in three years they would be worth just as much to the conference as USF and UCF would have a substantially higher national profile by the time any potential Big Ten raid might happen. If the Big 10 doesn't expand, Great!, at least you FINALLY have 9 FB teams and a balanced schedule. If the Big 10 does expand, then you invit the additional 2 or 3 teams at that time. At this point doing something is better than doing nothing. Part of the BE problem is that it's so small (as a FB conference).

You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves? It wouldn't make one bit of difference in any way! The only thing it would do would be to muddle what the league would be trying to do in the meantime and drain financially everything else. Not to mention it makes any future moves more difficult.

No... Read what I wrote, and other "CUSA types" wrote, the only people even mentioning expansion having any impact on the Big Tens decision are "Big East" types who are leaning on that point in this debate. The problem is we ALL AGREE, adding another team will do absolutely nothing to prevent the Big Ten from taking a team(s) from the Big East. It DOES fix scheduling in the short term and IT DOES make any future raid by the Big Ten much less painful for everyone involved.

Read what I wrote. Scheduling isn't an issue -it's been this way since the inception of BE football and adding a UCF doesn't do squat to diminish the disaster of having more teams raided.

(04-21-2010 06:58 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The Big East needs to take this opportunity to go ahead and invite the schools that it would be inviting anyway, because Big Ten expansion is inevitable.

If you bring them in NOW, then the conference will not suffer nearly as much when the inevitable poaching occurs because we will be going from 10 to 7, or 12 to 8, or whatever, instead of going from only 8 to a potentially crippling 4.

I realize that means less money for current conference members NOW, but that is money well spent to keep the conference alive later.

I think the reason this doesn't happen is because the schools that are mostly likely going to the Big Ten don't want to do it because they don't care about the long term viability of the conference.

BINGO. We have a winner. This is Tom Jurich's position (and predicament) in a nutshell. The northeastern schools in the BE prefer to stick their hands in the sand again and wait for someone else to come along and throw them a liferaft. The three CUSA schools (especially UL) plus WVU (and Pitt to a lesser degree) see the writing on the wall and don't want to wait around and get sandbagged again. Quite ironic considering it was the CUSA schools (and WVU's return to football prominence) that bailed the northern sisters out.

(04-21-2010 09:48 AM)Algiers Eagle Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 06:58 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The Big East needs to take this opportunity to go ahead and invite the schools that it would be inviting anyway, because Big Ten expansion is inevitable.

If you bring them in NOW, then the conference will not suffer nearly as much when the inevitable poaching occurs because we will be going from 10 to 7, or 12 to 8, or whatever, instead of going from only 8 to a potentially crippling 4.

I realize that means less money for current conference members NOW, but that is money well spent to keep the conference alive later.

I think the reason this doesn't happen is because the schools that are mostly likely going to the Big Ten don't want to do it because they don't care about the long term viability of the conference.

BINGO. We have a winner. This is Tom Jurich's position (and predicament) in a nutshell. The northeastern schools in the BE prefer to stick their hands in the sand again and wait for someone else to come along and throw them a liferaft. The three CUSA schools (especially UL) plus WVU (and Pitt to a lesser degree) see the writing on the wall and don't want to wait around and get sandbagged again. Quite ironic considering it was the CUSA schools (and WVU's return to football prominence) that bailed the northern sisters out.

Let me ask you this: what is really accomplished by rushing to add teams in these uncertain times? I'd submit you don't gain much by rushing to add ECU, UCF, etc. when you don't even know how many teams may be leaving. This isn't to say you don't plan for it, but given the fact that you aren't likely to a) get a new tv deal off the expansion and, perhaps more importantly, b) it would end up costing you money, it doesn't make sense from where I sit.

(04-21-2010 09:48 AM)Algiers Eagle Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 06:58 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The Big East needs to take this opportunity to go ahead and invite the schools that it would be inviting anyway, because Big Ten expansion is inevitable.

If you bring them in NOW, then the conference will not suffer nearly as much when the inevitable poaching occurs because we will be going from 10 to 7, or 12 to 8, or whatever, instead of going from only 8 to a potentially crippling 4.

I realize that means less money for current conference members NOW, but that is money well spent to keep the conference alive later.

I think the reason this doesn't happen is because the schools that are mostly likely going to the Big Ten don't want to do it because they don't care about the long term viability of the conference.

BINGO. We have a winner. This is Tom Jurich's position (and predicament) in a nutshell. The northeastern schools in the BE prefer to stick their hands in the sand again and wait for someone else to come along and throw them a liferaft. The three CUSA schools (especially UL) plus WVU (and Pitt to a lesser degree) see the writing on the wall and don't want to wait around and get sandbagged again. Quite ironic considering it was the CUSA schools (and WVU's return to football prominence) that bailed the northern sisters out.

Correction: UL was an excellent addition to the BE at the time, and WVU became prominent again in football at the right time. USF was a good add overall, but its annual swan dives in October did not help the BE. By the time UC became relevant, the "northern sisters", as you put it, were (and still are) on their upswing too.

You show me which current CUSA team plays the same caliber as UL was with Petrino in 2004. UC was not a football power at the time, but it added a lot on the BB side, and it was a natural rival for UL. USF had the Florida connection, and it was basically a coin flip between USF and UCF. The BE went with USF. Therefore, I can only see one CUSA team that would be an OK match (not great) right now.

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

(04-21-2010 09:48 AM)Algiers Eagle Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 06:58 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The Big East needs to take this opportunity to go ahead and invite the schools that it would be inviting anyway, because Big Ten expansion is inevitable.

If you bring them in NOW, then the conference will not suffer nearly as much when the inevitable poaching occurs because we will be going from 10 to 7, or 12 to 8, or whatever, instead of going from only 8 to a potentially crippling 4.

I realize that means less money for current conference members NOW, but that is money well spent to keep the conference alive later.

I think the reason this doesn't happen is because the schools that are mostly likely going to the Big Ten don't want to do it because they don't care about the long term viability of the conference.

BINGO. We have a winner. This is Tom Jurich's position (and predicament) in a nutshell. The northeastern schools in the BE prefer to stick their hands in the sand again and wait for someone else to come along and throw them a liferaft.

Exactly, which is why the ONLY talk we hear about expansion is coming from Jurich, and if your a fan of any program that will likely be left behind I would put some weight on his and Petino's comments...

if TCU is interested im fine with being proactive in adding them

other than that id rather just wait

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Precisely why CUSA schools should not be clamoring to get into the BE then, right? Why would you want to have your school associated with schools that can't compete at high levels? Right?

again, it comes back to that any realistic option doesn't improve much financially or in terms of stability.

(04-21-2010 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Precisely why CUSA schools should not be clamoring to get into the BE then, right? Why would you want to have your school associated with schools that can't compete at high levels? Right?

As far as I can tell the only reason to join the Big East would be BCS dollars. I recall being in a conference with UofL, Cincy, and USF before. The only thing that would be different is dollars. It's not like the Big East is the SEC. This upper echelon talk is hilarious. The only reason C-USA schools want to be in the Big East is for the money. Get a clue.

(04-21-2010 11:24 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Precisely why CUSA schools should not be clamoring to get into the BE then, right? Why would you want to have your school associated with schools that can't compete at high levels? Right?

As far as I can tell the only reason to join the Big East would be BCS dollars. I recall being in a conference with UofL, Cincy, and USF before. The only thing that would be different is dollars. It's not like the Big East is the SEC. This upper echelon talk is hilarious. The only reason C-USA schools want to be in the Big East is for the money. Get a clue.

Fine - have whatever opinion you want. But all of your top teams that made it to the bowls lost. Your teams cannot compete with the current BE schools, so why would the BE be excited to add them in now? Depending on which schools are not invited to the expansion, you may find that only one CUSA team would even be considered for inclusion. Can you guess which one that would be?

I don't see any team staying in the BE if a Big 10, ACC and/or SEC invite comes. They would be totally crazy to turn down any of those leagues. Why? Because the BE is the weakest conference out of the six and they show no desire to make it stronger. The BE powers are totally basketball people and don't really care about the FB side of things. The BE is, has been and always will be Basketball first.

It's true, and I'm definately a Pirate fan that non of the teams as they are today offer a great deal to the BE, SEC or ACC but really neither did Cincy and/or L'ville when they joined. Yes, L'ville had the most upside as they won several conference championship games and won some big OOC games as well, but Cincy was a middle to lower level CUSA team but when they got to BCS and into the BE they took off. They were able to upgrade their FB talent and they are now one of the top teams in the BE.

Until the FB schools get off their duff's and force a split they will continue to be in the weakest BCS league. No, the BE will never overtake the Big 10, Big 12 or SEC for the lead but they can overtake the PAC 10, as they are now, and the ACC, but only if the move and add some teams and give them the same BCS status as Cincy had to recruit under.

As for the teams involved with expansion talks, UCF, ECU, Memphis, Temple and Marshall, each of those teams need a year or two to recruit to build up their programs even more than now. Each are making improvements to facilities and each brings in a different market.

As for the teams that I expect to move to the Big 10: Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, Cuse and Maryland or BC. This would give them Big 10 both the DC or Boston and NY markets, St. Louis and the entire state of Nebraska. Not bad.

Again, no matter what the BE does, it won't stop any team from leaving but it would be in their favor to move forward with 12, get them upgrading and then when the Big 10 calls, they will be better off to deal with the loss.

(04-21-2010 11:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 11:24 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Precisely why CUSA schools should not be clamoring to get into the BE then, right? Why would you want to have your school associated with schools that can't compete at high levels? Right?

As far as I can tell the only reason to join the Big East would be BCS dollars. I recall being in a conference with UofL, Cincy, and USF before. The only thing that would be different is dollars. It's not like the Big East is the SEC. This upper echelon talk is hilarious. The only reason C-USA schools want to be in the Big East is for the money. Get a clue.

Fine - have whatever opinion you want. But all of your top teams that made it to the bowls lost. Your teams cannot compete with the current BE schools, so why would the BE be excited to add them in now? Depending on which schools are not invited to the expansion, you may find that only one CUSA team would even be considered for inclusion. Can you guess which one that would be?

I'd argue that C-USA's top teams can certainly compete in the current Big East. The future Big East, after the Big 10 rapes the current set up, the upper C-USA schools could DEFINITELY compete. Don't forget that UofL, Cincy, and USF make up the majority of the strength in the Big East from a football perspective. Those are former C-USA schools.

As far as upper echelon goes, didn't your conference champion Cincy Bearcats get throttled by Florida? 51-24 and that included Florida allowing 14 cosmetic points at the end as they pulled their starters. Upper echelon.

(04-21-2010 11:41 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 11:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 11:24 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Precisely why CUSA schools should not be clamoring to get into the BE then, right? Why would you want to have your school associated with schools that can't compete at high levels? Right?

As far as I can tell the only reason to join the Big East would be BCS dollars. I recall being in a conference with UofL, Cincy, and USF before. The only thing that would be different is dollars. It's not like the Big East is the SEC. This upper echelon talk is hilarious. The only reason C-USA schools want to be in the Big East is for the money. Get a clue.

Fine - have whatever opinion you want. But all of your top teams that made it to the bowls lost. Your teams cannot compete with the current BE schools, so why would the BE be excited to add them in now? Depending on which schools are not invited to the expansion, you may find that only one CUSA team would even be considered for inclusion. Can you guess which one that would be?

I'd argue that C-USA's top teams can certainly compete in the current Big East. The future Big East, after the Big 10 rapes the current set up, the upper C-USA schools could DEFINITELY compete. Don't forget that UofL, Cincy, and USF make up the majority of the strength in the Big East from a football perspective. Those are former C-USA schools.

As far as upper echelon goes, didn't your conference champion Cincy Bearcats get throttled by Florida? 51-24 and that included Florida allowing 14 cosmetic points at the end as they pulled their starters. Upper echelon.

You'd lose the argument, but try if you wish. Also, UL is not part of the strength of the FB conf anymore, and USF's annual nose dive in October also disqualifies it as a top program as well. I'm not sure which CUSA school you want to claim - you're likely ashamed to admit which school you went to or root for since you didn't declare one - but I bet it could not beat Pitt, RU or UCONN in FB. There is a chance your school could beat SU though....

(04-21-2010 11:41 AM)///MPower Wrote:  I'd argue that C-USA's top teams can certainly compete in the current Big East. The future Big East, after the Big 10 rapes the current set up, the upper C-USA schools could DEFINITELY compete. Don't forget that UofL, Cincy, and USF make up the majority of the strength in the Big East from a football perspective. Those are former C-USA schools.

Sorry MPower.. but as much as I'd like to say that's true.. right now it's simply not:

CUSA vs. the Big East since 1991

UAB 0-5
UCF 0-14
ECU 14-23
Houston 1-3
Marshall 1-8
Memphis 0-4
USM 2-5
Tulane 1-7
Tulsa 0-2
(Rice and SMU have yet to play any Big East teams)

The only team that's had the chance to play any BE teams regularly was ECU.. and they're losing nearly 2 for every one they win. So the few times the schools meet up, BE usually has had the best of it. Would that change if they played more often? I'd think so, but we don't know who (If anyone) will get that chance.

Now if you're referring to matchups of the Current BE teams prior to the jumps they made to the BE.. that'd would probably take some more time to put together.

(04-21-2010 10:27 AM)///MPower Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:27 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  You CUSA types really dont understand do you? You actually think that having added a UCF is going to make a difference to teams in the Big East that have been competing with each other at the upper levels for decades when the Big Ten makes its moves?

Upper levels? I know you're not talking about football, are you? Sorry, excuse me while I laugh my *** off.

You are truly a clown! Thanks for the laugh! Much needed on a Wednesday.

Talk about a clown. You are so full of the s**t you are spewing you don't have a rational thought in your head. Yes Big East schools have played football at the top level of college football for decades. Two have won national championships-you know-at the upper levels. Another has played in the national championship. BE teams in recent years have beaten other teams in the "upper level" like-oh you may have heard of the SEC champions, the ACC champions, The Big Twelve champions. I could go on and on with facts but I know you ECU folks don't understand those very well so I'll stop here--I think I'm working up a bit of a chuckle thinking how incredibly ignorant you are.

(04-21-2010 11:40 AM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  I don't see any team staying in the BE if a Big 10, ACC and/or SEC invite comes. They would be totally crazy to turn down any of those leagues. Why? Because the BE is the weakest conference out of the six and they show no desire to make it stronger. The BE powers are totally basketball people and don't really care about the FB side of things. The BE is, has been and always will be Basketball first.

It's true, and I'm definately a Pirate fan that non of the teams as they are today offer a great deal to the BE, SEC or ACC but really neither did Cincy and/or L'ville when they joined. Yes, L'ville had the most upside as they won several conference championship games and won some big OOC games as well, but Cincy was a middle to lower level CUSA team but when they got to BCS and into the BE they took off. They were able to upgrade their FB talent and they are now one of the top teams in the BE.

Until the FB schools get off their duff's and force a split they will continue to be in the weakest BCS league. No, the BE will never overtake the Big 10, Big 12 or SEC for the lead but they can overtake the PAC 10, as they are now, and the ACC, but only if the move and add some teams and give them the same BCS status as Cincy had to recruit under.

As for the teams involved with expansion talks, UCF, ECU, Memphis, Temple and Marshall, each of those teams need a year or two to recruit to build up their programs even more than now. Each are making improvements to facilities and each brings in a different market.

As for the teams that I expect to move to the Big 10: Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, Cuse and Maryland or BC. This would give them Big 10 both the DC or Boston and NY markets, St. Louis and the entire state of Nebraska. Not bad.

Again, no matter what the BE does, it won't stop any team from leaving but it would be in their favor to move forward with 12, get them upgrading and then when the Big 10 calls, they will be better off to deal with the loss.

the Big East may be the poorest of the BCS leagues, but in it's current configuration it hasn't finished last in the national categories that rank actual on field play.

(04-21-2010 12:31 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 11:41 AM)///MPower Wrote:  I'd argue that C-USA's top teams can certainly compete in the current Big East. The future Big East, after the Big 10 rapes the current set up, the upper C-USA schools could DEFINITELY compete. Don't forget that UofL, Cincy, and USF make up the majority of the strength in the Big East from a football perspective. Those are former C-USA schools.

Sorry MPower.. but as much as I'd like to say that's true.. right now it's simply not:

CUSA vs. the Big East since 1991

UAB 0-5
UCF 0-14
ECU 14-23
Houston 1-3
Marshall 1-8
Memphis 0-4
USM 2-5
Tulane 1-7
Tulsa 0-2
(Rice and SMU have yet to play any Big East teams)

The only team that's had the chance to play any BE teams regularly was ECU.. and they're losing nearly 2 for every one they win. So the few times the schools meet up, BE usually has had the best of it. Would that change if they played more often? I'd think so, but we don't know who (If anyone) will get that chance.

Now if you're referring to matchups of the Current BE teams prior to the jumps they made to the BE.. that'd would probably take some more time to put together.

Where on earth are you coming up with these selective statistics? FYI, Southern Miss is 18-8 against Louisville, 7-8 versus Cincy, 4-1 versus USF, and 1-2 versus Pitt (which victory was a 41-7 drubbing of Pitt in the Liberty Bowl). I don't remember us ever playing any of the other teams, but then again, UConn just started playing football, Syracuse currently sucks, and Rutgers was a complete laughingstock until 2005.
BTW-----I don't see any CUSA schools around here being seriously talked about joining ranks except Memphis, ECU, Southern Miss, and UCF. The rest simply are irrelevant.