The idea is so simple I'm surprised no one thought of it earlier....change that, I'm surprised it's not already required.

Quote:PHOENIX — The House Government Committee voted Tuesday to require presidential contenders to prove to Arizona's secretary of state they're "natural born citizens" to get their names on the ballot.

The 6-1 vote came on the proposal by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, who said it's only fair to require those who want to lead our country prove they meet the standards of the U.S. Constitution. She said that, at the very least, it means producing a birth certificate.

"One must have a birth certificate if you're going to enroll your child in a sports program for school," Burges said. The same is true of passports.

Burges never mentioned President Obama during Tuesday's hearing or the controversy over whether he was actually born in Kenya and not Hawaii. Another legal theory of "birthers" who have challenged Obama's right to be president is that even if he was born in Hawaii, he lost his citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian and moved the family there.

But Burges previously told Capitol Media Services she has suspicions about Obama's loyalties, including bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia and a quote from his book — taken out of context — that "when it came down to it, he would be on the Muslim side."

Matt Benson, lobbyist for Secretary of State Ken Bennett, said there are all sorts of problems with HB 2441 which now goes to the full House.

First, he said it likely would bring a challenge that Arizona was illegally imposing its own standards on candidates for federal offices. Benson noted that federal courts previously struck down an attempt by Arizona to limit the terms of members of Congress.

Burges responded that 10 other states are considering similar proposals. "So it's not just Arizona," she said.

Benson pointed out, though, that what Burges wants isn't a simple matter of someone coming up with a birth certificate. It requires the secretary of state to examine documents proving eligibility and refuse to list that person on the ballot if there is "reasonable cause to believe the candidate does not meet the citizenship, age and residency requirements prescribed by law."

He said that provides no clear guideline for his agency to determine if, for example, a copy of a birth certificate is legally sufficient.

The state health department in Hawaii did produce a "short form" birth certificate for Obama, copies of which are available on the Internet. But that has not satisfied some who want to see the original which has never been released.

Linda Lingle, Hawaii's Republican governor, contends these originals are confidential and the state health director has released a statement that she has seen the original.

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/state-and-...002e0.html

WHAT!!! a whole state is going to require proof of eligibility? So to extrapolate, Az must think that the FED does not provide this safeguard. Arizona -- "The Birther State"

(02-24-2010 01:27 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  The idea is so simple I'm surprised no one thought of it earlier....change that, I'm surprised it's not already required.

Quote:PHOENIX — The House Government Committee voted Tuesday to require presidential contenders to prove to Arizona's secretary of state they're "natural born citizens" to get their names on the ballot.

The 6-1 vote came on the proposal by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, who said it's only fair to require those who want to lead our country prove they meet the standards of the U.S. Constitution. She said that, at the very least, it means producing a birth certificate.

"One must have a birth certificate if you're going to enroll your child in a sports program for school," Burges said. The same is true of passports.

Burges never mentioned President Obama during Tuesday's hearing or the controversy over whether he was actually born in Kenya and not Hawaii. Another legal theory of "birthers" who have challenged Obama's right to be president is that even if he was born in Hawaii, he lost his citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian and moved the family there.

But Burges previously told Capitol Media Services she has suspicions about Obama's loyalties, including bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia and a quote from his book — taken out of context — that "when it came down to it, he would be on the Muslim side."

Matt Benson, lobbyist for Secretary of State Ken Bennett, said there are all sorts of problems with HB 2441 which now goes to the full House.

First, he said it likely would bring a challenge that Arizona was illegally imposing its own standards on candidates for federal offices. Benson noted that federal courts previously struck down an attempt by Arizona to limit the terms of members of Congress.

Burges responded that 10 other states are considering similar proposals. "So it's not just Arizona," she said.

Benson pointed out, though, that what Burges wants isn't a simple matter of someone coming up with a birth certificate. It requires the secretary of state to examine documents proving eligibility and refuse to list that person on the ballot if there is "reasonable cause to believe the candidate does not meet the citizenship, age and residency requirements prescribed by law."

He said that provides no clear guideline for his agency to determine if, for example, a copy of a birth certificate is legally sufficient.

The state health department in Hawaii did produce a "short form" birth certificate for Obama, copies of which are available on the Internet. But that has not satisfied some who want to see the original which has never been released.

Linda Lingle, Hawaii's Republican governor, contends these originals are confidential and the state health director has released a statement that she has seen the original.

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/state-and-...002e0.html

You sir need to get to a psychiatrist ASAP.

Quote:PHOENIX — The House Government Committee voted Tuesday to require presidential contenders to prove to Arizona's secretary of state they're "natural born citizens" to get their names on the ballot.

Quote:The 6-1 vote came on the proposal by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, who said it's only fair to require those who want to lead our country prove they meet the standards of the U.S. Constitution. She said that, at the very least, it means producing a birth certificate.

Burges never mentioned President Obama during Tuesday's hearing or the controversy over whether he was actually born in Kenya and not Hawaii. Another legal theory of "birthers" who have challenged Obama's right to be president is that even if he was born in Hawaii, he lost his citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian and moved the family there.

Quote:But Burges previously told Capitol Media Services she has suspicions about Obama's loyalties, including bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia and a quote from his book — taken out of context — that "when it came down to it, he would be on the Muslim side."

This deserves the IRONSIDE FACEPALM!!111!!

I hope we sell Arizona to Mexico. It will help pay down our debt.

Hell, we can sell Texass while we're at it.

...so, just to clear it up, Robert, CB, and LS don't think a nominee should have to provide proof of natural born citizenship, a constitutional requirement, to run for President?

(02-24-2010 02:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ...so, just to clear it up, Robert, CB, and LS don't think a nominee should have to provide proof of natural born citizenship, a constitutional requirement, to run for President?

That’s a tough crowd to be associated with…. ;.)

Once again, the "natural born citizenship" of Barrack Hussein Obama has been proven, re-proven and re-re-proven time and time again. Just because you didn't like the answer, doesn't mean it isn't so....

Answer me this - if the original birth certificate is produced from some dusty Hawaiian archive, will it make a difference? Or will it only lead to claims of:

*since the birth certificate took so long to produce, obviously it’s fake.
*even though the birth certificate is real, he still isn’t a “natural born citizen” because is Mom was A, his Dad was B and he lived in C.
*even though he has a real birth certificate, and the issue of his natural born citizenship / nationality is now beyond reproach, he still isn’t President because (insert new goalpost location)

It’s like the farking Truthers. Every single example of why the World Trade Center was attacked and later fell is simply another example of the “conspiracy.”

Listen, my objection to worrying so god-damn-much about the Birf Certikate is that it there is little or nothing that could be settled by “proving” he is not eligible. Not one of the points raised by the Birthers is anything more than conjecture and pissing in the wind legally dubious. The courts will quickly, and probably correctly, find that Obama’s birth arrangements and or citizenship fall within the Constitutional provided guidelines for Presidential eligibility.

As such, all the time and money resources continually devoted by Birthers could be better put to use, oh I don’t know, perhaps by supporting the Tea Party movement, or contributing to local elected officials, or by volunteering.

There.

Didn't say anything about the Kenyan. Yes, I have questions, like how did he go to Occidental on a foreign student scholarship and how did he go to Pakistan when, at the time, they didn't allow anyone with an American passport.

I'm talking about anyone having to provide proof. Shouldn't someone have to provide proof BEFORE they're elected, not after? What sense does it make to prove your eligibility after you've already obtained the position? Do you apply for a job that requires a degree and tell your potential employer that you'll supply your degree after you're hired?

(02-24-2010 02:28 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-24-2010 02:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ...so, just to clear it up, Robert, CB, and LS don't think a nominee should have to provide proof of natural born citizenship, a constitutional requirement, to run for President?

That’s a tough crowd to be associated with…. ;.)

Once again, the "natural born citizenship" of Barrack Hussein Obama has been proven, re-proven and re-re-proven time and time again. Just because you didn't like the answer, doesn't mean it isn't so....

Answer me this - if the original birth certificate is produced from some dusty Hawaiian archive, will it make a difference? Or will it only lead to claims of:

*since the birth certificate took so long to produce, obviously it’s fake.
*even though the birth certificate is real, he still isn’t a “natural born citizen” because is Mom was A, his Dad was B and he lived in C.
*even though he has a real birth certificate, and the issue of his natural born citizenship / nationality is now beyond reproach, he still isn’t President because (insert new goalpost location)

It’s like the farking Truthers. Every single example of why the World Trade Center was attacked and later fell is simply another example of the “conspiracy.”

Listen, my objection to worrying so god-damn-much about the Birf Certikate is that it there is little or nothing that could be settled by “proving” he is not eligible. Not one of the points raised by the Birthers is anything more than conjecture and pissing in the wind legally dubious. The courts will quickly, and probably correctly, find that Obama’s birth arrangements and or citizenship fall within the Constitutional provided guidelines for Presidential eligibility.

As such, all the time and money resources continually devoted by Birthers could be better put to use, oh I don’t know, perhaps by supporting the Tea Party movement, or contributing to local elected officials, or by volunteering.

There.

:pwnt:

(02-24-2010 02:33 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  :pwnt:

That's not pwnage if I gave a response, Special Ed. Do try to keep up.

(02-24-2010 02:31 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Didn't say anything about the Kenyan.

OK, but dude, you weren't concerned about this prior to Obama were you? Why now? No ulterior motive re: the Kenyan? This is not some altruistic concern just now being raised by parties, this is a targeted Obama trope........

Quote:I'm talking about anyone having to provide proof. Shouldn't someone have to provide proof BEFORE they're elected, not after? What sense does it make to prove your eligibility after you've already obtained the position? Do you apply for a job that requires a degree and tell your potential employer that you'll supply your degree after you're hired?

Yes they should provide proof prior to the election, and in my opinion, and in the opinion of any party that had an official say, BO did provide proof prior to the election.

The only people saying he is not legitimate are those not placated by the facts.

(02-24-2010 02:52 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  OK, but dude, you weren't concerned about this prior to Obama were you? Why now? No ulterior motive re: the Kenyan? This is not some altruistic concern just now being raised by parties, this is a targeted Obama trope........

No one has made me question it before. All other presidential candidates had thorough vetting done during the primaries and general elections. All, with the exception of the Kenyan.

(02-24-2010 02:52 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  OK, but dude, you weren't concerned about this prior to Obama were you? Why now? No ulterior motive re: the Kenyan? This is not some altruistic concern just now being raised by parties, this is a targeted Obama trope........

BTW, yeah, I saw a short form birth certificate. ....with "African" listed as his dad's race. Sorry, "African" isn't a race.

(02-24-2010 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(02-24-2010 02:52 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  OK, but dude, you weren't concerned about this prior to Obama were you? Why now? No ulterior motive re: the Kenyan? This is not some altruistic concern just now being raised by parties, this is a targeted Obama trope........

BTW, yeah, I saw a short form birth certificate. ....with "African" listed as his dad's race. Sorry, "African" isn't a race.

And I once got a speeding ticket claiming I was driving an Accura.

Bureaucratic mistakes and / or a lack of immediate correction do not get your speeding ticket thrown out of court, nor do they equal "non-natural born citizen"

(02-24-2010 03:31 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  And I once got a speeding ticket claiming I was driving an Accura.

Bureaucratic mistakes and / or a lack of immediate correction do not get your speeding ticket thrown out of court, nor do they equal "non-natural born citizen"

Apples and oranges. A speeding ticket is hand-written. A birth certificate is an official document....and that's a pretty big f-up if that's the case, don't you think? "African" is also not a simple spelling mistake. How'd he go to Occidental on a foreign student scholarship? How'd he go to Pakistan?

(02-24-2010 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  BTW, yeah, I saw a short form birth certificate. ....with "African" listed as his dad's race. Sorry, "African" isn't a race.

And, yet, African American is a "race" despite the fact that it typically involves bloodlines mixed from at least two additional continents. Funny how that works.

(02-24-2010 03:33 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Apples and oranges. A speeding ticket is hand-written. A birth certificate is an official document....

Both are official documents, and both are initially hand transcribed. Both are susceptible to mistakes, bureacratice inertia and other concerns.

So leaving that behind, partly because I do think we are both correct, I ask this question. How does his father's citizenship as "African" exclude BO from the Presidency?

Quote:How'd he go to Occidental on a foreign student scholarship? How'd he go to Pakistan?

I am pretty well read, but honestly outside of this board have long ago stopped having any interest in BO's prescibed citizenship / travel / scholarship daliances. What is the story behind Occidental and Pakistan?
And why does it matter?

Hell, to me you could PROVE that he isn't a US citizen, and there would still be 100 more important concerns about BO and his background (Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Chicago school of politics, Rezko, etc.) It's not that I don't find the possibility of him not being a citizen (or whatever it is the Birthers claim) it is just that I am completely convinced that the Supreme Court will quickly find him eligible.

So let's all pick our hill to die on, but not have that hill be Birff Certifikat.

(02-24-2010 03:50 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(02-24-2010 03:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  BTW, yeah, I saw a short form birth certificate. ....with "African" listed as his dad's race. Sorry, "African" isn't a race.

And, yet, African American is a "race" despite the fact that it typically involves bloodlines mixed from at least two additional continents. Funny how that works.

So, if Gary Player immigrated to the states, would he be considered an "African American"? How about if Trevor Immelman and his wife had a kid in Augusta after the Masters, would his kid be considered "African American"?

(02-24-2010 03:31 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  And I once got a speeding ticket claiming I was driving an Accura.

Looks acurate to me.