Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
Author Message
Owl 69/70/75 Offline
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #61
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
(02-09-2010 11:08 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Pretty good assesment..IMO......I would say though that there were those in the intelligence community that DID know that what Powell put before the UN was BS and sat there and let him make a fool of himself. I think we all know there was a massive failure of the intel community not working together and putting the pieces together that cause some of this mess. It is very likely the invasion would not have occurred without Gen. Powell's pleas. I hope we have learned a lesson from this and that these agencies are doing a better job of sharing intel now. Somehow though...I really doubt it.

My best guess is that there were a lot of arguments in the intel community, and when all the arguments were laid on the table, we were somewhere in the 40-70% confidence range. Probably closer to 70% that he had them and closer to 40% that he was getting ready to use them. Probably higher than 70% that Israel thought he had them and was considering some sort of action. Probably close to zero that he was actually going to use them against us, but we tend to take action to pre-empt others.

The only plausible reason that I can imagine for going to Iraq before finishing Afghanistan was that Israel was ready to pull the trigger on something, and we wanted to pre-empt that. Even that is at best a close call for me. I think I would have tended to say to let Israel go while we continue to focus on Afghanistan until the job is done there. That's no slam dunk, and I can understand that reasonable people acting reasonably could have reached a different conclusion if that were the situation.
02-09-2010 12:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WoodlandsOwl Offline
Up in the Woods
*

Posts: 11,813
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 115
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location:

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #62
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
(02-09-2010 12:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-09-2010 11:08 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Pretty good assesment..IMO......I would say though that there were those in the intelligence community that DID know that what Powell put before the UN was BS and sat there and let him make a fool of himself. I think we all know there was a massive failure of the intel community not working together and putting the pieces together that cause some of this mess. It is very likely the invasion would not have occurred without Gen. Powell's pleas. I hope we have learned a lesson from this and that these agencies are doing a better job of sharing intel now. Somehow though...I really doubt it.

My best guess is that there were a lot of arguments in the intel community, and when all the arguments were laid on the table, we were somewhere in the 40-70% confidence range. Probably closer to 70% that he had them and closer to 40% that he was getting ready to use them. Probably higher than 70% that Israel thought he had them and was considering some sort of action. Probably close to zero that he was actually going to use them against us, but we tend to take action to pre-empt others.

The only plausible reason that I can imagine for going to Iraq before finishing Afghanistan was that Israel was ready to pull the trigger on something, and we wanted to pre-empt that. Even that is at best a close call for me. I think I would have tended to say to let Israel go while we continue to focus on Afghanistan until the job is done there. That's no slam dunk, and I can understand that reasonable people acting reasonably could have reached a different conclusion if that were the situation.

I heard that there almost a mutiny within the Directorate of Intelligence when George Tenet told Bush that the CIA WMD intelligence was a "slam dunk." There was no clear consensus.

As far as "letting Israel go", I think that was the one contingency the US wanted to stop at all cost. If the Isrealis got slimed with a chemical warhead from an Iraqi SCUD, there would be Jericho missiles with nuclear warheads inbound to Baghdad within the hour.

And them all hell would have broken loose.

People think Isreal is a like a pit bulldog under the collar and leash of the US.

That's wrong. Israel will "do what it has to do" to survive, if attacked. And they could care less about the position they put in the US in because of their actions.
02-09-2010 08:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
THE NC Herd Fan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 16,168
Joined: Oct 2003
Reputation: 521
I Root For: Marshall
Location: Charlotte
Post: #63
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
(02-06-2010 09:20 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I understand and like how the Tea Party Mvmt is trying to change the course of American politics, but I can't help but to think that they are heading towards just being a part of business as usual.

They spend their entire time talking about how democrats are evil and they hardly ever talk bad about the GOP. They say that they welcome all to come in, network, and speak; but at the same time they only have GOP members as keynote speakers who in turn never say anything negative about people in their own party and just slam dems.

For some reason I just see them as the activist arm of the GOP. I agree with running this country the right way but just putting Repubs back in ain't gonna do it either.

And this is different from the liberal Moveon.org how? Moveon's whole purpose is to bash Republicans and blame Bush.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2010 06:24 AM by THE NC Herd Fan.)
02-09-2010 08:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fo Shizzle Offline
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
*

Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 1206
I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina

Balance of Power Contest
Post: #64
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
(02-09-2010 08:42 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  
(02-09-2010 12:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-09-2010 11:08 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Pretty good assesment..IMO......I would say though that there were those in the intelligence community that DID know that what Powell put before the UN was BS and sat there and let him make a fool of himself. I think we all know there was a massive failure of the intel community not working together and putting the pieces together that cause some of this mess. It is very likely the invasion would not have occurred without Gen. Powell's pleas. I hope we have learned a lesson from this and that these agencies are doing a better job of sharing intel now. Somehow though...I really doubt it.

My best guess is that there were a lot of arguments in the intel community, and when all the arguments were laid on the table, we were somewhere in the 40-70% confidence range. Probably closer to 70% that he had them and closer to 40% that he was getting ready to use them. Probably higher than 70% that Israel thought he had them and was considering some sort of action. Probably close to zero that he was actually going to use them against us, but we tend to take action to pre-empt others.

The only plausible reason that I can imagine for going to Iraq before finishing Afghanistan was that Israel was ready to pull the trigger on something, and we wanted to pre-empt that. Even that is at best a close call for me. I think I would have tended to say to let Israel go while we continue to focus on Afghanistan until the job is done there. That's no slam dunk, and I can understand that reasonable people acting reasonably could have reached a different conclusion if that were the situation.

I heard that there almost a mutiny within the Directorate of Intelligence when George Tenet told Bush that the CIA WMD intelligence was a "slam dunk." There was no clear consensus.

As far as "letting Israel go", I think that was the one contingency the US wanted to stop at all cost. If the Isrealis got slimed with a chemical warhead from an Iraqi SCUD, there would be Jericho missiles with nuclear warheads inbound to Baghdad within the hour.

And them all hell would have broken loose.

People think Isreal is a like a pit bulldog under the collar and leash of the US.

That's wrong. Israel will "do what it has to do" to survive, if attacked. And they could care less about the position they put in the US in because of their actions.

I agree...I have close Jewish friend that has said to me on more than one occasion...."Israel will become an enemy of ANY nation... including the US if it is necessary to protect their sovereignty." Anyone that doubts the resolve of Israel in this respect is going to pay a price. They may go down in flames...but..They are going to inflict horrible damage upon the one that poses an eminent threat to them.

Hey...and the Israelis are NOT going to advertise that they are going to attack. They will just do it!!!! BOOM!!!
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2010 09:16 PM by Fo Shizzle.)
02-09-2010 09:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nomad2u2001 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,356
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation: 450
I Root For: ECU
Location: NC
Post: #65
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
(02-09-2010 08:52 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(02-06-2010 09:20 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I understand and like how the Tea Party Mvmt is trying to change the course of American politics, but I can't help but to think that they are heading towards just being a part of business as usual.

They spend their entire time talking about how democrats are evil and they hardly ever talk bad about the GOP. They say that they welcome all to come in, network, and speak; but at the same time they only have GOP members as keynote speakers who in turn never say anything negative about people in their own party and just slam dems.

For some reason I just see them as the activist arm of the GOP. I agree with running this country the right way but just putting Repubs back in ain't gonna do it either.

And this is different from the liberal Moveon.org how? Moveon's whole purpose is to base Republicans and blame Bush.

If it isn't any different, are they any better?
02-09-2010 09:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,374
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 184
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #66
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
I pretty much agree with everything that my fellow Owls have said here w.r.t. Iraq.

(02-09-2010 09:14 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Hey...and the Israelis are NOT going to advertise that they are going to attack. They will just do it!!!! BOOM!!!

They have been advertising pretty loudly over the past 18+months that they're at least considering going after Iran. Ultimately, they have to consider the value of containment, MAD, and all of the other things that the US and Soviets had to consider many years ago. It's not a slam dunk that attacking Iran (even less so Iraq 8 years ago, IMHO) ultimately serves their interests.
02-10-2010 01:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Offline
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 80,655
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 3192
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #67
RE: Your opinion on the Tea Party Animals
Have you heard that the head of Mossad let it slip that Israel had overflight rights from the Saudis to go after Iran?

It was a news story in the Seychelles when we were there last July, but I've not heard much about it here.

I fully believe it is true. I had first heard the story from some of my expat friends in Dubai, over Thanksgiving of 2008.

As I may have posted above, "My brother and I will fight my cousin, my cousin and I will fight the world." Ishmael and Isaac were brothers; Ishmael and Cyrus weren't.

I'd be very interested in knowing where the Dolphins are right now. 48 Jerichos would make a pretty big bang.
02-10-2010 02:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.