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Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
So Much for Saving High Tech JOBS.

Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program

By KENNETH CHANG

Published: February 1, 2010

President Obama is calling on NASA to cancel the program that was to return humans to the Moon by 2020, and focus instead on radically new space technologies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/science/02nasa.html

Mr. Obama’s 2010 budget proposal for NASA asks for $18 billion over five years for fueling spacecraft in orbit, new types of engines to accelerate spacecraft through space and robotic factories that could churn soil on the Moon — and eventually Mars — into rocket fuel.

Plans for a new mission to leave Earth’s orbit will probably not be spelled out for a few years, and the budget proposal makes it clear that any future exploration program will be an international collaboration, not an American one, more like the International Space Station than Apollo.

“I think this is a dramatic shift in the way we’ve gone about particularly human spaceflight over the past almost 50 years,” said John M. Logsdon, former director of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University who was one of about a dozen people who were briefed about the NASA proposal Sunday evening.

“It is a somewhat risky proposition,” Dr. Logsdon said, “but we’ve been kind of stuck using the technologies we’ve developed in the ’50s and ’60s.”

To pay for the new technology development, the budget calls for a complete stop in NASA’s Constellation program, the rockets and spacecraft that NASA has been working on for the past four years to replace the space shuttles.

“We are proposing canceling the program, not delaying it,” Peter Orszag, director of the Office of Management and Budget, said Sunday.

The proposal would officially end aspirations to return astronauts to the Moon by 2020 — President George W. Bush’s “vision for space exploration” developed in the aftermath of the loss of the space shuttle Columbia in 2003.

In place of the Moon mission, Mr. Obama’s vision offers, at least initially, nothing in terms of human exploration of the solar system. What the administration calls a “bold new initiative” does not spell out a next destination or timetable for getting there.

In the meantime, instead of using the Constellation’s Ares I rocket and Orion crew capsule to ferry astronauts to the International Space Station, $6 billion would instead go to financing space taxi services from commercial companies.

Under the proposal, NASA’s budget would rise to $19 billion in the 2011 fiscal year from $18.7 billion. It would also get additional increases in subsequent years, reaching $21 billion in 2015. In total, NASA would receive $100 billion over the next five years.

Whether Congress agrees to the restructuring of NASA remains to be seen. As reports of the impending cancellation of Constellation leaked out last week, members of Congress, particularly in Alabama, Florida and Texas, the homes of the NASA centers most involved with Constellation, expressed concern.

“If early reports for what the White House wants to do with NASA are correct, then the president’s green-eyeshade-wearing advisers are dead wrong,” Senator Bill Nelson of Florida said in a statement last week.

Congress may also balk at the price tag. After spending $9 billion over the past four years on Constellation, canceling the contracts with Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Alliant Techsystems and other companies will cost an additional $2.5 billion, Dr. Logsdon said NASA officials had told him.

If implemented, the NASA a few years from now would be fundamentally different from NASA today. The space agency would no longer operate its own spacecraft, but essentially buy tickets for its astronauts.

Dr. Logsdon said the officials said NASA would evolve into a role more akin to the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, which preceded NASA. The committee did not manufacturer aircraft, but performed aeronautical research that was adopted by aircraft manufacturers.

“The assumption is that there are technological breakthroughs out there ready to be discovered and exploited,” Dr. Logsdon said. “I’m impressed and a little surprised how large the investment in new technology is planned to be. It does represent a shift away from developing systems to developing technologies before developing systems.”

If the approach succeeds, it could jumpstart a vibrant space industry, but it is also risky. By canceling Ares I, NASA would have no backup if the commercial companies were not able to deliver.

One likely competitor for the commercial crew contract is Space Exploration Technologies Corporation, or SpaceX for short. But its Falcon 9 rocket, the one that would be used to carry astronauts to the space station, has yet to have its first launching. When SpaceX, a startup led by Elon Musk, the founder of PayPal, won in 2006 a contract to carry cargo to the space station, the company said it would have six flights of the Falcon 9 by the end of 2009.

Conversely, another likely competitor, United Launch Alliance, which is a joint venture between Boeing and Lockheed Martin, has decades of experience building space hardware for NASA, and its rockets, the Delta IV and the Atlas V, have successfully carried military and commercial satellites to space. But modifications needed for carrying astronauts could be costly and the launch alliance has also experienced delays and cost overruns.

NASA has also not yet spelled out how it would go about verifying that commercial rockets are sufficiently safe for carrying astronauts. A worry is also that the decades of expertise and experience within NASA in operating spacecraft will be lost, and that the commercial companies might stumble as they learn.

A move to an international collaboration would also make future exploration programs susceptible to buffeting from diplomatic winds on Earth. For example, after Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, lawmakers questioned whether the United States should continue flying astronauts on the Russian Soyuz rockets.

While more countries would share the cost, an international collaboration would probably be more expensive and cumbersome to manage, and could be slowed down by delays of any of the partners.

“I’m optimistic this provides a path to a long term and sustainable and high quality program,” Dr. Logsdon said. “But I think there will be a lot of debate over the details over the next few months.”
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2010 01:00 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
02-01-2010 12:59 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
02-01-2010 01:29 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
There are still people out there that believe in fake moon landings, amazing.
02-01-2010 02:10 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
The high tech jobs will still be there, since they're needed to develop increasingly sophisticated spacecraft. All you'll lose is a few astronaut jobs.
02-01-2010 02:22 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 01:29 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  This will blow your mind:

http://www.jayweidner.com/ShiningSecrets.html

You are making my eyes bleed.

NIU007 -- outsourcing overseas -- Its jobs Americans don't want, youknow
02-01-2010 02:29 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
Its about time we reverse-engineered all those crashed spacecraft stored out at Groom Lake. 05-stirthepot
02-01-2010 02:31 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2010 03:02 PM by NIU007.)
02-01-2010 03:01 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

In this case I do not think Private Industry can compete with gov't run programs of China, Russia, Japan, France, India.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2010 03:17 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
02-01-2010 03:16 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 03:16 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

In this case I do not think Private Industry can compete with gov't run programs of China, Russia, Japan, France, India.

Why? Wouldn't they be more efficient?
02-01-2010 03:21 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
But certainly the future is Mars, not the Moon, no?

As a fiscal conservative, I believe that ending the Moon problem is probably for the best. Apply those brains and monies to getting to the Red Planet.
02-01-2010 03:37 PM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
Why? Why does a manned mission to Mars make sense given the enormous expense?
02-01-2010 03:49 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 03:49 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Why? Why does a manned mission to Mars make sense given the enormous expense?

No need for manned missions to Mars right now. Continue to invest in the current round of unmanned Martian missions.
02-01-2010 04:02 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
I think a mission to Mars would be a wise investment for the government, return some pride to the country.
02-01-2010 04:20 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
We can't afford going to Mars now. And there are still lots of technical difficulties, like radiation shielding, that need to be figured out.
02-01-2010 05:27 PM
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T-Monay820 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
Screw Mars. Unless there are massive piles of gold we can collect, screw space.
02-01-2010 06:07 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

Umm....Let see...Would discoveries and technological advancements made in space by "private" companies running their businesses for profit be "protected" as any other invention?.....Id say yes. There lies the profit motive for a business to go to space. I can see it now...Microsoft/Google/IBM/Boeing/Lockheed...ect..ect..ect..putting capital into private space exploration. Why would they not?

Those that doubt the power of the marketplace to accomplish things...fail to understand its "true" power.
02-01-2010 06:20 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 06:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

Umm....Let see...Would discoveries and technological advancements made in space by "private" companies running their businesses for profit be "protected" as any other invention?.....Id say yes. There lies the profit motive for a business to go to space. I can see it now...Microsoft/Google/IBM/Boeing/Lockheed...ect..ect..ect..putting capital into private space exploration. Why would they not?

Those that doubt the power of the marketplace to accomplish things...fail to understand its "true" power.

I understand that they would. Those companies are already dumping millions and millions into the space exploration programs with the X-Prize foundation.

The same can be said for healthcare, IMO.
02-01-2010 07:07 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

How would a private company make money on it? Would you invest in that company?

Oh, and everthing from the Shuttle to the pens used at NASA are made by private companies. The government just directs where the money goes.
02-01-2010 10:48 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 10:48 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

How would a private company make money on it? Would you invest in that company?

Oh, and everthing from the Shuttle to the pens used at NASA are made by private companies. The government just directs where the money goes.

Lets see....Advertising,Royalties on patents,Endorsement deals,Investment revenue(stock),Media revenue....ect..ect..ect. I know there must be more...God knows what could happen be profited upon.
Im a plywood man...not an astrospace engineer. 04-cheers
02-01-2010 11:03 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: Obama Calls for End to NASA’s Moon Program
(02-01-2010 10:48 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(02-01-2010 03:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Private industry could do it all better anyway, right? Why spend government (taxpayer) money on it?

How would a private company make money on it? Would you invest in that company?

Oh, and everthing from the Shuttle to the pens used at NASA are made by private companies. The government just directs where the money goes.

There would be money in it. There would be a ton of funds that would invest in this, betting that they would be putting their money in the project that accomplishes its goal. The success of said project, would pay huge dividends for that investor.

As far as the company that's actually doing the job, there would be all sorts of opportunities for textbook acknowledgments, speaking gigs, presentations, books, journal articles, and probably more investors the next go 'round.

I would personally be all for opening private company opportunities up so that they can compete with NASA, even though that would be incredibly difficult. It would create jobs for all of the engineers that can't get this type of work because of the difficulty of getting a gig with this one organization.
02-01-2010 11:49 PM
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