That type of justification is what gives rise to genocide, eugenics, and the rise of dictators. How you might ask? Because you apparently don't hold life in any high regard. It also has no place in a "civilized" society.

(01-26-2010 01:38 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  That commercial is just gonna kill the mood of the game. I've always been a fan of saving the situation for the proper place in time. Put the commercial during the Pro Bowl since nobody watches that. Don't bring politics into sports.

It looks like you & I are out of luck - CBS's response has been to invite additional issue ads to fill their remaining slots. Of course, it might just be that they can't sell the slots to anyone else.

How in the hell did we get to the point, as a society, that an ad promoting life is controversial?

(01-27-2010 02:23 PM)Rebel Wrote:  How in the hell did we get to the point, as a society, that an ad promoting life is controversial?

How did we get to the point, as a society, where only one viewpoint is considered the "right" way and everything else that is different is wrong?

(01-27-2010 02:25 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  

(01-27-2010 02:23 PM)Rebel Wrote:  How in the hell did we get to the point, as a society, that an ad promoting life is controversial?

How did we get to the point, as a society, where only one viewpoint is considered the "right" way and everything else that is different is wrong?

Protecting life is, and always SHOULD be, the right way.

(01-26-2010 09:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  This isn't about womens rights to do as they please with their own bodies. We're not talking about their bodies in the slightest. If a woman wants to put a gun to her head and pull the trigger, go ahead. Knock yourself out. I don't care. Now if she puts that gun to her husbands head or her 4 year olds head or the one in her womb, well now we're talking murder. I have a problem with that no matter who she's snuffing the life out of. Suicide, I'm hunky-dory. Do as you chose with your own body. Vacate the premises if you so decide. Good-bye. Killing others, not so much.

Does a pregnant woman have the right to commit suicide?

(01-27-2010 02:40 PM)jh Wrote:  

(01-26-2010 09:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  This isn't about womens rights to do as they please with their own bodies. We're not talking about their bodies in the slightest. If a woman wants to put a gun to her head and pull the trigger, go ahead. Knock yourself out. I don't care. Now if she puts that gun to her husbands head or her 4 year olds head or the one in her womb, well now we're talking murder. I have a problem with that no matter who she's snuffing the life out of. Suicide, I'm hunky-dory. Do as you chose with your own body. Vacate the premises if you so decide. Good-bye. Killing others, not so much.

Does a pregnant woman have the right to commit suicide?

What kind of Klingon logic is that?

(01-27-2010 02:45 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(01-27-2010 02:40 PM)jh Wrote:  

(01-26-2010 09:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  This isn't about womens rights to do as they please with their own bodies. We're not talking about their bodies in the slightest. If a woman wants to put a gun to her head and pull the trigger, go ahead. Knock yourself out. I don't care. Now if she puts that gun to her husbands head or her 4 year olds head or the one in her womb, well now we're talking murder. I have a problem with that no matter who she's snuffing the life out of. Suicide, I'm hunky-dory. Do as you chose with your own body. Vacate the premises if you so decide. Good-bye. Killing others, not so much.

Does a pregnant woman have the right to commit suicide?

What kind of Klingon logic is that?

What do you mean? Paul M said he is anti-abortion but pro-suicide. I'm asking where he comes down when the two are in conflict, how he balances the two conflicting rights. Or rather, how he defines the rights so they aren't in conflict.

I've yet to see anyone on this thread argue in favor of late term abortions or eugenics. I think you are arguing mostly with people who agree with you. In fact, I suspect your view is the most different from GGniner's.

(01-27-2010 02:06 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  In the meantime, let's just get reproducing so in 30 years there will be 30 billion of us on Earth and then we can get the real moral debates going when they have to start really having death panels because we consumed everything we need to survive and destroyed our planet.

But people are the ultimate resource (thanks Julian). The standard of living has increased immesurable as the world population has grown. People have been predicting doom from overpopulation for over 200 years (at least, I'm sure there was someone before Malthus).

(01-27-2010 02:18 PM)Rebel Wrote:  That type of justification is what gives rise to genocide, eugenics, and the rise of dictators. How you might ask? Because you apparently don't hold life in any high regard. It also has no place in a "civilized" society.

I can understand and respect your point of view on this subject.

But understand this...

There are many people out there who disagree with you. There are many people out there who agree with you. So why does your way have to be THE way.

Simply because you believe it? A "civilized" society is not a dictatorship as you said, but you seem hell bent that the only right way is the way you say it should be. That doesn't sound like a very well rounded society either.

You don't need to project your negative outlook unto me (saying I don't hold life in high regard) simply because you disagree with my view. That is what many conservatives and liberals don't understand. I actually hold life in very high regard. But I know that the universe doesn't notice a fetus being aborted and neither does the fetus. Just as it won't notice when I die and when you die.

Ultimately when it comes down to it...it should not be up to you or anyone else what a woman does to her body or what is inside of it. Your definition of life is a definition that is inflated into a ultra-valuable type of existence when in reality all 6 billion of us matter very little. In 100 years most of everyone on this planet will be dead.

Why is your existence more valuable than a cow's? Because you are too prideful to admit that it isn't? I'd rather know a bunch of cows than many of the disgusting and horrible people that have walked this Earth. Yet, you are not crying when you eat a cheeseburger. But isn't that life? And as you said, protecting life SHOULD always be the right way...

I like the way Mike Huckabee views this subject. He is without a doubt one of the more pro-life people that I know of, but with him being a preacher he believes in counseling before any decision is made.

I for one, know personally what it's like to have someone close to me in the situation where she may never be able to live the same quality of life as the rest of us. I just happen to be one of those people that believe that their life is as just as much of a blessing as yours and mine. But if you ask me whether or not I would've had the strength to keep her or not if she was my child. I am pro life but sometimes different situations challenge the way you believe.

Watch this with an open mind:

(01-28-2010 12:58 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Watch this with an open mind:

The other side of the same coin:

- Niemann-Pick disease ... I would show a photo, but most die soon after birth.

- Duchenne muscular dystrophy ... also ultimately fatal



- Tay-Sachs disease ... usually fatal before pre-school .... it's like rapidly progressing alzheimers disease. You get to literally watch you kid waste away mentally, slowly losing any ability to move or even think clearly. Quite literally the lights are on, but nobody is home.




These are just some of the very common genetic disorders that are fatal, and fatal rapidly. I could compile quite the lengthy list easily.

And those are rarely the reasons that people have abortions. The reasons for the majority of abortions are Girls Just Want To Have Fun. Carrying a child would interfere. Many feel they can't afford a child and terminate. Of course the other side of that coin is many choose to have the baby or intentionally get knocked-up for the check. This is about women, and girls, thinking about themselves. They find they are pregnant and get an abortion. They aren't going in for genetic tests.

That being said, couples who truly want children and are hit with news like the above really agonize over their decisions.

I could get behind some of Paul's statements above. Abortions shouldn't be a form of birth control, but I don't think you can make a blanket law that can cover the complexities.

(01-28-2010 10:41 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I could get behind some of Paul's statements above. Abortions shouldn't be a form of birth control, but I don't think you can make a blanket law that can cover the complexities.

I don't think anyone has promoted a blanket law. I know I haven't.