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Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
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bubbapt Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-26-2010 03:51 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Actually, they use "change" because global warming can cause various changes in cloud cover, rain, drought, etc. These then cause changes in climates.

Could you provide an example of global warming resulting in regional changes in cloud cover, rain, drought, etc over the past 30 years? An illustration might help us understand what you're referencing.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2010 08:53 AM by bubbapt.)
01-26-2010 08:44 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
"Actually, they use "change" because" they kept being embarrassed from always being wrong.
01-26-2010 09:10 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-25-2010 06:12 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If the solution is to cut global population by 50%, then it isn't going to happen, unless we find a new globe.

Oh, there are plenty on the left who wouldn't propose needing a new world to cut population by 50%..... just a cost effective combination of government policy, forced sterilization, bullets, famine and disease.

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01-26-2010 10:34 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-26-2010 10:34 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(01-25-2010 06:12 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If the solution is to cut global population by 50%, then it isn't going to happen, unless we find a new globe.

Oh, there are plenty on the left who wouldn't propose needing a new world to cut population by 50%..... just a cost effective combination of government policy, forced sterilization, bullets, famine and disease.

(Poor only need apply)

Or just let Rebel loose among the 'muzzies'.
01-26-2010 10:47 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-25-2010 11:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(01-25-2010 06:28 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Meteorology IS a science, no difference. Climatology and Meteorology both look at what is and try to make predictions from that. Meteorology is just the easier game since you're talking shorter timeframes and therefore has more immediate practical use.

Part of the reason this country is cleaner is that almost all the manufacturing has gone overseas. Now if we can just get the Chinese to stop putting lead in everything they're selling to us.....

I didn't mean to imply it wasn't a science... but they aren't dealing in theories. They deal in practical application. People will know if they are correct because their "predictions" will generally happen (or not) in a measurable period. Meteorologists who continually make wrong predictions will be dismissed. "Climatologists" can predict whatever gets them attention/print/money because nobody now alive will be alive then to contest their conclusions. Soon after they said it was cooling in the 70's it started warming... soon after they said it was warming in the 90's it started cooling, so in 2010 they simply say "change".... and nobody can contest them.

As to shipping jobs, while that is true, we didn't clean up our lakes and rivers, not to mention tainted land by shipping jobs overseas. In fact, shipping jobs overseas to places where they didn't have to pay to clean up their past, OR their present is part of how they beat us on price... and now they want us to pay to clean up the messes they made to attract our factories overseas by not making them be clean?? We're paying 3 times for the same goods and the problems they cause... and in the end, the jobs will get shipped to a NEW place that will rape the environment and then try and make us pay to clean it up for exploiting them... yeah, that's fair.

The world thinks we have "SUCKER" written across our foreheads.

To a large extent, the lakes and rivers got cleaned up due to pressure from treehuggers - who are so maligned on this board. Businesses didn't just decide that they would turn over a new leaf and stop polluting. I agree though, overseas they can beat us on price partly because they don't care about working conditions or the safety of the products they produce. We need to be extra vigilant that they aren't foisting off their polluting, cheap, unsafe products on us, just because they're cheap.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2010 10:54 AM by NIU007.)
01-26-2010 10:52 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-26-2010 03:51 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Actually, they use "change" because global warming can cause various changes in cloud cover, rain, drought, etc. These then cause changes in climates.
Robert... they said the result of man's actions was going to be cooling... THEN they said the result would be warming... and now they simply say that man's actions are causing change/volatility... blaming man for earthquakes, hurricanes, colder in some places and warmer in others... in other words, they can blame any weather phenomenon they want on man except stability... and any measurement of the earth's weather shows that "change" is the only constant. Warming trends, cooling trends, 18 hurricanes in a season, 5 in a season... Greenland being named Greenland... snow in Houston.

and you don't care about how much it costs because you don't expect to pay it... and you're wrong

(01-26-2010 10:52 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  To a large extent, the lakes and rivers got cleaned up due to pressure from treehuggers - who are so maligned on this board. Businesses didn't just decide that they would turn over a new leaf and stop polluting. I agree though, overseas they can beat us on price partly because they don't care about working conditions or the safety of the products they produce. We need to be extra vigilant that they aren't foisting off their polluting, cheap, unsafe products on us, just because they're cheap.

There is a difference between showing me a river that used to have potable water in it and now won't support life... or land that won't grow crops because the dirt is poisoned... and the HUGE leap of faith required to believe what climatologists predict. One is a fact, the other is a prediction. I'm not saying you have to wait until things are horrible to do something about it... and we don't. We look at logical and reasonable extensions of facts... not leaps of faith. We emit significantly less than we used to, and continue to seek ways to reduce our impact. Reducing our carbon footprint?? I'm all for it. So what have people done about that?? Turned carbon footprints into a commodity to be traded... and the only people who ALWAYS make money trading commodities are the brokers. Everyone else wins or loses by an equal amount. It's a zero-sum game... with a few points taken out for Al Gore (a euphamism, not really meaning Gore) for "inventing" the market. You think "the rich" might find a way to exploit this market that doesn't really need to exist?? I guarantee they will. Look at the profits on Wall Street, and you just gave them a new unregulated market to play in.

Of course, there are people on here that just want to argue to argue... but the tree-huggers who are generally maligned are the ones who believe extreme measures are justified. Kill people to protect trees. Destroy private property to protect animals. Spend trillions of dollars to prevent something that may not happen, or may be unpreventable... or because of the actions of other countries, could happen despite our best efforts, while ruining our economy in the process and giving power to those who cause the problem anyway... while maligning those who are willing to take reasonable efforts to "do right" simply because they won't write a blank check to a group without a solution.

As to being vigilant... That is exactly the problem with Kyoto and with what happened in Copenhagen. They don't want to clean the environment... they want money and jobs. Put the responsibility on THEM to make things cleanly and charge us accordingly rather than on us to be the moral compass for the world. This is exactly what has gotten us into many of the problems we face today. Let the rest of the world be "the environmental police", and if that means that an ipod cost $299.99 instead of $199.99, then so be it. This is better than charging us $299 for something that everyone else in the world can buy for $199, with $100 going to some "fund", whether it be the cap and trade marketers or the government to spend on something they can't enforce. We can't FORCE China to be clean... we can only "encourage", meaning bribe... and bribes are NEVER efficient uses of money... In other words... place the responsibility where it belongs... on the producers, rather than the consumers... and let THEM bear the expense rather than us. If you don't, then those societies willing to do so will surpass ours... which is exactly the wrong result if WE are the ones doing "the right" thing.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2010 12:24 PM by Hambone10.)
01-26-2010 12:20 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-26-2010 12:20 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Robert... they said the result of man's actions was going to be cooling... THEN they said the result would be warming... and now they simply say that man's actions are causing change/volatility... blaming man for earthquakes, hurricanes, colder in some places and warmer in others... in other words, they can blame any weather phenomenon they want on man except stability... and any measurement of the earth's weather shows that "change" is the only constant. Warming trends, cooling trends, 18 hurricanes in a season, 5 in a season... Greenland being named Greenland... snow in Houston.

and you don't care about how much it costs because you don't expect to pay it... and you're wrong

No, he just understands the true goal of that fake movement is the death of Capitalism and, since he's a Socialist, the lies are justified.
01-26-2010 01:10 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
I just want one of you guy's to give me one animal alive today, that went extinct because of global warming....................................... CLASSIC...................................
01-26-2010 01:17 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Expert Warns of 'Climategate' Conspiracy
(01-26-2010 01:17 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I just want one of you guy's to give me one animal alive today, that went extinct because of global warming....................................... CLASSIC...................................

What animal is extinct because of global warming? Besides, I thought you believed in evolution and Darwin? If you do, you have to understand you have to take the positives with the negatives. ....and that's life.
01-26-2010 01:19 PM
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