(01-21-2010 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2010 10:48 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  UNO - see ya wouldn't want to be ya - your weak attendance was hurting this conference. I feel for the city of New Orleans and the University of New Orleans supporters - but this will help the Sun Belt.

Dumb post.

Go take a look at how ASU is financed. Let New Madrid shake real good and knock ASU down to 7,000 - 8,000 students and you'll see precisely the same result.

Yeah, it could happen to anyone and we all need to show a little compassion . . .

(01-21-2010 10:43 AM)FIUFanatic Wrote:  

(01-21-2010 12:26 AM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(01-20-2010 06:56 PM)galojah Wrote:  I don't believe your sports can play at different divisional levels. If their athletics program as a whole goes D-III, then their baseball cannot compete at a D-I.

You can with some sports. (Hockey comes to mind) But baseball plays at enough levels nationwide, so I don't believe its one of 'em.

I don't know if this has changed or not over the years, but in the mid to maybe late 80's, FIU was Division II in all sports, with the exception of baseball which was already Division I. So, at least at that moment some twenty years ago , yes you could have one sport...and baseball in particular....as D-I with the rest of the department being D-II. Don't know as to D3, since it's non-scholarship....

I know Dallas Baptist is D-1 in baseball, and don't remember them playing any other D-1 sports. Also, Augusta State is D-1 in golf.

From Dallas Baptist Wiki:

Athletics
Most of Dallas Baptist University's athletic programs are in the Heartland Conference, which is NCAA Division II. However, the baseball program is in Division I and plays an independent schedule. In 2008, the Patriots made the NCAA baseball tournament for the first time.

At Dallas Baptist University, the Patriot Athletic Department offers varsity athletic programs including: a NCAA Division I men’s baseball team and NCAA Division II men's basketball, men’s and women’s cross-country/track, cheerleading, golf and tennis, and women’s soccer and volleyball teams, which compete in the Heartland Conference. The men's and women's cross-country/track program is under the direction of head coach Jacob Phillips and holds four of the school's conference championship wins. All intercollegiate athletic teams also hold membership in the National Christian College Athletic Association (NCCAA).

Yep, no idea how it applies to various sports, or Div. 3 vs. Div. 2.

(01-21-2010 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2010 10:48 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  UNO - see ya wouldn't want to be ya - your weak attendance was hurting this conference. I feel for the city of New Orleans and the University of New Orleans supporters - but this will help the Sun Belt.

Dumb post.

Go take a look at how ASU is financed. Let New Madrid shake real good and knock ASU down to 7,000 - 8,000 students and you'll see precisely the same result.

They have had sorry attendance forever. My post had nothing to do with financing.

Are you saying the conference will be worse off when they leave?

(01-21-2010 10:03 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(01-21-2010 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2010 10:48 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  UNO - see ya wouldn't want to be ya - your weak attendance was hurting this conference. I feel for the city of New Orleans and the University of New Orleans supporters - but this will help the Sun Belt.

Dumb post.

Go take a look at how ASU is financed. Let New Madrid shake real good and knock ASU down to 7,000 - 8,000 students and you'll see precisely the same result.

They have had sorry attendance forever. My post had nothing to do with financing.

Are you saying the conference will be worse off when they leave?

I'm saying if you look at how everyone in this league is financed a multi-year drop in enrollment of 30% will be fatal to competitive athletics.

UNO did a lousy job for decades of marketing and growing their program. In the Floyd era great crowds at the end of the year had no carry over to the next season and that was a marketing failure but even if they had done better the athletic program that might have survived would not have been competitive and no program in this league would field competitive programs with an extended enrollment drop if their athletic departments were able to survive at all.

(01-21-2010 11:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-21-2010 10:03 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(01-21-2010 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-20-2010 10:48 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  UNO - see ya wouldn't want to be ya - your weak attendance was hurting this conference. I feel for the city of New Orleans and the University of New Orleans supporters - but this will help the Sun Belt.

Dumb post.

Go take a look at how ASU is financed. Let New Madrid shake real good and knock ASU down to 7,000 - 8,000 students and you'll see precisely the same result.

They have had sorry attendance forever. My post had nothing to do with financing.

Are you saying the conference will be worse off when they leave?

I'm saying if you look at how everyone in this league is financed a multi-year drop in enrollment of 30% will be fatal to competitive athletics.

UNO did a lousy job for decades of marketing and growing their program. In the Floyd era great crowds at the end of the year had no carry over to the next season and that was a marketing failure but even if they had done better the athletic program that might have survived would not have been competitive and no program in this league would field competitive programs with an extended enrollment drop if their athletic departments were able to survive at all.

My admittedly jackassed politically incorrect comments were intended to forward the notion that the Sun Belt would be better off without the University of New Orleans and its 850 people per game basketball attendance.

I remember fondly the American South, Tim Floyd throwing shoes, Ladell Eckles, Ervin Johnson, Melvin Simon, and the Amtrack from Memphis to New Orleans.

But the Sun Belt, despite losing a great city, is better off without UNO.

My post wasn't dumb - just because you didn't agree doesn't make it so.
My post was insensitive, and was crude - but that doesn't change the fact that the Sun Belt will be better off without UNO.

Please explain how UNO's weak attendance ever hurt the conference?

I'd say that at times ASU and ULL benefitted from it by bringing big enough crowds to negate home advantage.

I've not found the standings from last year, but in the 07-08 academic year, UNO finished in the top half of the league in 4 of the 6 sports they played. By comparison, ASU finished in the top half in four of 15 sports and ULM in four of 16.

I don't remember when this went into effect, but basically if you're not already playing up in a sport (i.e. Johns Hopkins in Lacrosse, Dallas Baptist in Baseball) you have to play all sports in the same division. Football and Men's Basketball are two sports schools were specifically prohibited from playing in different divisions. At one time UAB was playing Division III football, but had to move the football program into Division I or drop the sport to retain Division I membership.

There is no Division II in Men's Ice Hockey, which is why UAH (and many other schools) play that sport in Division I.

(01-22-2010 08:41 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Please explain how UNO's weak attendance ever hurt the conference?

I'd say that at times ASU and ULL benefitted from it by bringing big enough crowds to negate home advantage.

I've not found the standings from last year, but in the 07-08 academic year, UNO finished in the top half of the league in 4 of the 6 sports they played. By comparison, ASU finished in the top half in four of 15 sports and ULM in four of 16.

Only 2 sports matter. UNO doesn't play one. UNO's support for the other wasn't good. What exactly did they bring to the table that the Sun Belt will miss?

I'll ask again - are you saying the conference will be worse off without them?

We lose exposure in a major media market where one of our TV partners is based. We lose a school that has in the past demonstrated it can draw good crowds when they put a good product on the court.

Two questions for you.

1. If only two sport "matter" why did the league adopt minimum sport sponsorship rules and is looking to end Denver's membership based on not participating in enough sports?

2. What positive accrues to the conference losing UNO?

(01-23-2010 08:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  We lose exposure in a major media market where one of our TV partners is based. We lose a school that has in the past demonstrated it can draw good crowds when they put a good product on the court.

Two questions for you.

1. If only two sport "matter" why did the league adopt minimum sport sponsorship rules and is looking to end Denver's membership based on not participating in enough sports?

2. What positive accrues to the conference losing UNO?

I'm not going to bother researching UNO attendance - but I'd be surprised if they have averaged over 2K per game in a season in the last decade. Exactly what do you mean by "good crowds?" Any school that doesn't have the potential to average 5K and doesn't play football isn't really an asset to the Sun Belt in my opinion.

Regarding Media Markets - New Orleans is a great city - but it isn't like UNO basketball drives much viewership - clearly not enough of the people of New Orleans care about UNO basketball. So how will UNO leaving impact the Sun Belt with respect to TV and TV revenues?

1. Two sports matter to the future of the Sun Belt - you can have as much success in women's basketball or baseball as you like - but it won't mean anything compared to football or men's basketball success. Ending Denver's membership is like ending UNO's. They don't bring enough to the table in the two major sports that they really add value to the Sun Belt.

2. I wasn't necessarily hoping UNO would leave the Sun Belt - but seeing so many posts about UNO made me think who cares - what are we really losing - the Sun Belt will be stronger without them. I want the Sun Belt to be significantly better in men's basketball - and approach what the MVC has been in recent years.