Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
Author Message
SumOfAllFears Offline
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
*

Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 58
I Root For: America
Location:
Post: #1
Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned

Code:
Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:07 AM

By: Donald Lambro, The Washington Times


On top of all the other obstacles facing President Obama in his quest to pass health reform is this one: Does the U.S. Constitution allow the government to require uninsured Americans to buy medical insurance or impose a tax penalty if they refuse?

Congress has never before required citizens to purchase any good or service, but that is what both House and Senate health bills would mandate.

While this debate has been overshadowed by other issues involving the plan's nearly $1 trillion cost and its government-run option, the constitutional argument strikes at a pivotal part of the health care plan's finances. To make a government-run health care plan work, the nation's largely uninsured young adults would need to be covered to help subsidize medical care for older and typically less-healthy Americans, legislators say.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi dismissed the complaint Thursday when she was asked by a reporter if the Democrats' health reform proposal was constitutional.

"Are you serious? Are you serious?" Mrs. Pelosi replied.

But House Minority Leader John A. Boehner said the argument could not be ignored.

"I'm not a lawyer, and I'm certainly not a constitutional lawyer, but I think it's wrong to mandate that the American people have to do anything," he told reporters at his own press briefing last week.

The question of the mandate's constitutionality "hasn't been part of the public debate, but the legal community has been debating it. It's been on all the legal blogs," said Michael Cannon, director of health-policy studies at the libertarian Cato Institute. He said "the Constitution does not grant Congress the power to force Americans to purchase health insurance."

In 1994, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office noted that a "mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action."

"The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States," the CBO said. The statement was part of an analysis of then-President Clinton's ill-fated health care reform plan, which also required that all Americans purchase health insurance plans.

The Constitution gives Congress the power "to regulate commerce ... among the several states" - a clause that has served as the foundation for broad economic regulatory and taxing powers claimed by the legislative branch.

But Randy Barnett, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center, asks, "Where in the [Constitution] is the power to mandate that individuals buy health insurance?" His answer: Nowhere.

"The business of providing health insurance is now an entirely intrastate activity" beyond the regulatory sway of the federal government, he said.

Washington lawyers David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey argued in an Aug. 22 column in The Washington Post that Congress has no constitutional power to tell people what they must buy.

"The Constitution assigns only limited, enumerated powers to Congress, and none, including the power to regulate interstate commerce or to impose taxes, would support a federal mandate requiring anyone who is otherwise without health insurance to buy it," they said.

But other legal scholars say that the Supreme Court has in recent decades taken a much broader view of Congress' commerce powers and would likely do the same in this case if the legislation's mandate is challenged in court.

"I would be willing to wager with Professor Barnett that the Supreme Court would uphold such a mandate, given the court's expansive reading of the Commerce Clause. In fact, I don't think the vote would be close," Washington and Lee University professor Timothy Stoltzfus Jost said.

Even some conservative legal analysts who oppose the health care reform think that in the end, if the legislation passes, Congress would win in the courts.

"In this case, the overall scheme would involve the regulation of 'commerce' as the Supreme Court has defined it for several decades, as it would involve the regulation of health care markets. And the success of such a regulatory scheme would depend upon requiring all to participate," writes Jonathan H. Adler, law professor at Case Western Reserve University School of Law.

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland was asked at a news conference recently whether Congress had "the power to mandate that somebody buy health insurance." He replied: "Promoting the general welfare in the Constitution obviously gives broad authority to Congress to effect that end. Clearly, this is within our constitutional responsibility."

The Senate Finance Committee, which recently approved one of the Senate's two main health care bills, "thoroughly explored the issue and believes that the policies put forward in our bill will fall within" the constitutional powers of Congress, a top aide said.

But the excise tax that would be imposed on anyone who did not purchase insurance and its enforcement "would invite [constitutional] scrutiny," said a paper presented to the Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies by Peter Urbanowicz, a lawyer and health care management consultant, and Dennis G. Smith, senior research fellow in health care reform at the Heritage Foundation.

They cited Columbia University health policy professor Sherry Glied, named by Mr. Obama to a top policy job in the Department of Health and Human Services, who warned that "developing a system to promptly identify and penalize scofflaws will take effort and ingenuity, particularly in our diverse and mobile country."

"It may require a degree of intrusiveness and bureaucracy that some will find unpalatable."

2009 The Washington Times



Pelosi Prepares Release of Public Option Bill
Code:
Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:52 PM


WASHINGTON – House Democrats are poised to unveil health care legislation that would vastly alter America's medical landscape, requiring virtually universal sign-ups and offering a new government-run plan for people without affordable coverage.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was making plans to release the bill Thursday morning, contingent on the outcome of a meeting of House leaders Wednesday afternoon, according to lawmakers and aides.


The rollout would cap months of arduous negotiations to bridge differences between liberal and moderate Democrats and blend health care overhaul bills passed by three separate committees over the summer. The developments in the House came as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid tried to round up support among moderate Democrats for his bill, which includes a modified government insurance option that states could opt out of.


The final product in the House, reflecting many of President Barack Obama's priorities, includes new requirements for employers to offer insurance to their workers or face penalties, fines on Americans who don't purchase coverage and subsidies to help lower-income people do so. Insurance companies would face new prohibitions against charging much more to older people or denying coverage to people with health conditions.


The price tag, topping $1 trillion over 10 years, would be paid for by taxing high-income people and cutting some $500 billion in payments to Medicare providers.


"I'm pretty confident that we've got the right pieces in place," said Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the Education and Labor Committee, one of the three panels involved in writing the bill. "We can quibble over parts of it, but the fact is when you're taking a 60-year-old system that grew up in a rather haphazard fashion and you're trying to bring some coherence to it, these are sort of the things you have to do at the beginning of that process."


In the end, Pelosi, D-Calif., and other House leaders were unable to round up the necessary votes for their preferred version of the government insurance plan — one that would base payment rates to providers on rates paid by Medicare. Instead, the health and human services secretary would be allowed to negotiate rates with providers and the program would be optional for states, the approach preferred by moderates and the one that will be featured in the Senate's version.

2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 02:30 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
10-28-2009 02:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


BlazerFan11 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,228
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 367
I Root For: UAB
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
When has that ever stopped them?

P.S. I like the articles in 'Code' form so I can just scroll down the article instead of having to scroll down the page, especially for when Robert replies to the entire long article insteading of just using the Quick Reply box like people with a brain.
10-28-2009 02:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SumOfAllFears Offline
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
*

Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 58
I Root For: America
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
You know it should stop them, they are sworn to uphold the Constitution. If they do not they should be shot as traitors.

You know with Roberta, you can buy him books, send him to school, but all he will do is eat the bookcovers. He won't scroll down, he!!, he does not even read the articles.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 02:48 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
10-28-2009 02:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,374
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 184
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #4
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
I'd still rather have the links so I could see them in more readable form...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009...uestioned/
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/pelos...78368.html
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 03:15 PM by I45owl.)
10-28-2009 03:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


SumOfAllFears Offline
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
*

Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 58
I Root For: America
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
At times, especially when news is just breaking or is still being updated, links get broken. But you can google them anytime if you like, as you did. Free will.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 03:21 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
10-28-2009 03:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nomad2u2001 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,356
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation: 450
I Root For: ECU
Location: NC
Post: #6
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
I don't believe it's constitutional because the constitution says nothing about healthcare and it strictly limits itself to defense and interstate relations. Health care is to be a responsibility of the state and it should not be limited on what it can do.
10-28-2009 11:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #7
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
(10-28-2009 11:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't believe it's constitutional because the constitution says nothing about healthcare and it strictly limits itself to defense and interstate relations. Health care is to be a responsibility of the state and it should not be limited on what it can do.

How is healthcare the responsibility of the state?
10-29-2009 07:38 AM
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Crebman Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,407
Joined: Apr 2007
Reputation: 552
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
(10-29-2009 07:38 AM)Rebel Wrote:  
(10-28-2009 11:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't believe it's constitutional because the constitution says nothing about healthcare and it strictly limits itself to defense and interstate relations. Health care is to be a responsibility of the state and it should not be limited on what it can do.

How is healthcare the responsibility of the state?

I think he means that because the healthcare industry is Intra-state, not interstate, it's regulation and rules fall to state authority. That pesky constitution coming into play.

IMO, the Feds (all 3 branches) will just ignore the constitution and make up whatever rules that suit them.
10-29-2009 07:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nomad2u2001 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,356
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation: 450
I Root For: ECU
Location: NC
Post: #9
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
(10-29-2009 07:38 AM)Rebel Wrote:  
(10-28-2009 11:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't believe it's constitutional because the constitution says nothing about healthcare and it strictly limits itself to defense and interstate relations. Health care is to be a responsibility of the state and it should not be limited on what it can do.

How is healthcare the responsibility of the state?

I didn't mean that it's the responsibility of the state to provide healthcare. I meant that if anyone should pass healthcare legislation it should only be the state, not saying that they should, but it falls in that jurisdiction.
10-29-2009 10:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
smn1256 Offline
I miss Tripster
*

Posts: 28,878
Joined: Apr 2008
Reputation: 337
I Root For: Lower taxes
Location: North Mexico
Post: #10
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
(10-29-2009 07:38 AM)Rebel Wrote:  
(10-28-2009 11:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't believe it's constitutional because the constitution says nothing about healthcare and it strictly limits itself to defense and interstate relations. Health care is to be a responsibility of the state and it should not be limited on what it can do.

How is healthcare the responsibility of the state?

It's niether. Unlike car insurance which protects OTHER drivers, the government can't force you to buy something for yourself. But they can tax you and then provide a service, say maybe health insurance.
10-29-2009 10:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Tripster Offline
Most Dangerous Man on a Keyboard
*

Posts: 3,140
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 16
I Root For: The Best Only
Location: Where the Action is
Post: #11
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
.

Shoot Guyz, there are 10,000 Lawyers out there Wringing the Skin Off Their Hands just waiting to argue this before the SCOTUS.

And even if this CRAP passes, it can get held up in the SCOTUS for years before it is unleashed onto the Public.

Maybe by that time, we will have some semblance of Sanity back in Congress and especially the White House, which will stop this Marxist/Socialist game dead in it's tracks.

That is what I have been hoping for if this Monstrosity does happen to make thru to a Full Vote and get's signed by the TOTUS.

.
10-29-2009 12:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SumOfAllFears Offline
Grim Reaper of Misguided Liberal Souls
*

Posts: 18,213
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 58
I Root For: America
Location:
Post: #12
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
Social Security was on the same slippery slope, but, by the time it got to the SCOTUS, they felt the bell could not be unrung. Meaning it would do more harm than good to call it unconstitutional.

Thats why our leaders are sworn to uphold the Constitution. An oath they do not care if they break. Our Congress feels like they are not the ones to determine if something is unconstitutional, so they no longer even ask the question. Treasonous if you ask me.
10-29-2009 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cb4029 Offline
The spoon that stirs the pot.
*

Posts: 18,793
Joined: Jun 2007
Reputation: 353
I Root For: Deez Nuts
Location: B'ham

Donators
Post: #13
RE: Constitutionality of Health Overhaul Questioned
I took a dump this morning. When I finished, I wiped by a** with the constitution. 05-stirthepot
10-29-2009 12:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.