(10-01-2009 03:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-01-2009 12:05 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The novelty of a location works for maybe one year at most - after that, it's all about the quality of play.

Good point. E.g., the Champs sports bowl, played essentially at Disneyland, arguably the top tourist attraction in the world, drew in the 20s for 5 straight years, from 2000 - 2004.

It only upped that in to the 40,000 - 50,000 range the past 3 years, when Big 10 teams came those years.

Last year's St. Pete bowl, in a fantastic location for December, drew flies.

Ultimately, whatever the location, it's the quality of the football teams that drives attendance.

Yes...Big 10 opponent helped...but also the date shift from pre-Christmas to post-Christmas also helped too...as its MUCH easier for most to travel AFTER Christmas than it is right before it.

Plus, this past year...they hit a grand slam as the game was played on a Saturday for the very first time...plus a home state team was in it (FSU).
Still about 13,000 plus short of a sellout but MUCH better than the 20,000 crowds they saw when it was moved up from Lauderdale.

Yes, without question, a huge win for Big East football.

(10-01-2009 12:05 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-01-2009 11:17 AM)USFMike Wrote:  fans can always go to the boroughs, plenty of cheaper hotels there and only a simple subway ride into manhattan. not sure what they'll do about the teams lodging, you'd think the sponsors could make some arrangements, i guess we'll see.

Like I've said, that's easy to say (the equivalent of staying in Downtown Las Vegas as opposed to the Strip), but people just have to temper their expectations that just because it's in New York City that people will flock to it simply because of the location. People wax on and on about playing in Madison Square Garden and how "The Mecca of College Basketball" sells itself, yet St. John's averaged a whopping 5,418 people per game last season. The novelty of a location works for maybe one year at most - after that, it's all about the quality of play. Last year's Orange Bowl, which is in arguably the best possible city you could have a bowl game in at that time of year, wasn't able to sellout and that's a freaking BCS game. I know people will start throwing out extraneous factors for last year's Orange Bowl, but the logic doesn't follow that a bowl game in NYC featuring BE #3/4 and Big 12 #7 (and probably #8 in reality if the Big 12 gets 2 teams into BCS bowls) will sell tickets better than a BCS game featuring 2 conference champs in Miami in December/January. The logic doesn't follow that BE teams that can't sellout their home stadiums that hold 40,000 or 50,000 people will all of the sudden send 30,000 people to an NYC bowl. The logic doesn't follow that when it's going to cost about the same to stay in a Holiday Inn in NYC as it would to be in an ocean view room in a luxury Maui hotel at that time of year that many Big 12 fans are going to choose to make that trip to watch a 7th or 8th place team. All things being equal, NYC obviously trumps Shreveport or Toronto as a bowl destination for a low-level bowl. However, all things aren't equal here - you're talking about several times the amount of cost to the point where you could pay for a really nice upscale trip to Maui in December instead. I love live football as much as anyone and am fortunate enough to hypothetically afford these prices, but reasonably speaking, I'd have a hard time justifying paying that much to watch that level of a bowl game and staying in a run-of-the-mill hotel when the alternative at that same price is staying in a really nice hotel on the beach in Hawaii.

That's why this bowl is going to be heavily dependent upon the teams that have alums and fans that live in the NYC metro area. The Yankee Bowl is a perfectly great opportunity to be a "depth" bowl for the BE, but people need to be realistic in terms of thinking that it's going to develop into one of the elite bowls outside of the BCS games. Being excited about this bowl is one thing - it's definitely an upgrade over going to Toronto. Yet, it would be wrong of BE officials to not be trying to get its #2 and #3 teams into one of the more tradition-rich bowls in Florida or Texas in the next bowl cycle and bank on this Yankee Bowl matchup.

tank ,
how long does it take you to finish one reply???

Isn't it odd how it tends to be football fans from conferences not involved in this bowl that try to explain how this is not such a great set up?

(10-01-2009 12:05 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-01-2009 11:17 AM)USFMike Wrote:  fans can always go to the boroughs, plenty of cheaper hotels there and only a simple subway ride into manhattan. not sure what they'll do about the teams lodging, you'd think the sponsors could make some arrangements, i guess we'll see.

Like I've said, that's easy to say (the equivalent of staying in Downtown Las Vegas as opposed to the Strip), but people just have to temper their expectations that just because it's in New York City that people will flock to it simply because of the location. People wax on and on about playing in Madison Square Garden and how "The Mecca of College Basketball" sells itself, yet St. John's averaged a whopping 5,418 people per game last season. The novelty of a location works for maybe one year at most - after that, it's all about the quality of play. Last year's Orange Bowl, which is in arguably the best possible city you could have a bowl game in at that time of year, wasn't able to sellout and that's a freaking BCS game. I know people will start throwing out extraneous factors for last year's Orange Bowl, but the logic doesn't follow that a bowl game in NYC featuring BE #3/4 and Big 12 #7 (and probably #8 in reality if the Big 12 gets 2 teams into BCS bowls) will sell tickets better than a BCS game featuring 2 conference champs in Miami in December/January. The logic doesn't follow that BE teams that can't sellout their home stadiums that hold 40,000 or 50,000 people will all of the sudden send 30,000 people to an NYC bowl. The logic doesn't follow that when it's going to cost about the same to stay in a Holiday Inn in NYC as it would to be in an ocean view room in a luxury Maui hotel at that time of year that many Big 12 fans are going to choose to make that trip to watch a 7th or 8th place team. All things being equal, NYC obviously trumps Shreveport or Toronto as a bowl destination for a low-level bowl. However, all things aren't equal here - you're talking about several times the amount of cost to the point where you could pay for a really nice upscale trip to Maui in December instead. I love live football as much as anyone and am fortunate enough to hypothetically afford these prices, but reasonably speaking, I'd have a hard time justifying paying that much to watch that level of a bowl game and staying in a run-of-the-mill hotel when the alternative at that same price is staying in a really nice hotel on the beach in Hawaii.

That's why this bowl is going to be heavily dependent upon the teams that have alums and fans that live in the NYC metro area. The Yankee Bowl is a perfectly great opportunity to be a "depth" bowl for the BE, but people need to be realistic in terms of thinking that it's going to develop into one of the elite bowls outside of the BCS games. Being excited about this bowl is one thing - it's definitely an upgrade over going to Toronto. Yet, it would be wrong of BE officials to not be trying to get its #2 and #3 teams into one of the more tradition-rich bowls in Florida or Texas in the next bowl cycle and bank on this Yankee Bowl matchup.

i disagree taking a 15-20 min subway ride into the city or times square is much different than fighting traffic back and forth from jersey and taking the ferry. and comparing the cost to a trip to maui is delusional(last i checked it doesn't cost 1500 dollars per person to fly to jfk). i don't recall anyone here saying they were going to bring 30,000 to the game and who said this will outsell the orange bowl? i think 20,000 is a reasonable goal for teams like rutgers/cuse/uconn and should make for nice attendance in yankee stadium. you may disagree but we all know where your loyalties lie.

and st. johns draws 5,000 for their games because they're a terrible team and the program is in shambles with absolutely no ability or willingness to improve their program and their fans know it.

(10-02-2009 11:31 AM)USFMike Wrote:  i think 20,000 is a reasonable goal for teams like rutgers/cuse/uconn and should make for nice attendance in yankee stadium. you may disagree but we all know where your loyalties lie.

I stated the following in different posts in this thread:

"Anyway, that's not meant to be negative about the bowl as an idea. It's an overall good thing for the BE, but realistically speaking, the bowl needs Syracuse, Rutgers, UCONN and/or Notre Dame playing in order to meet some of these potential attendance numbers that are being thrown out here."

"That's why this bowl is going to be heavily dependent upon the teams that have alums and fans that live in the NYC metro area."

I also further stated that WVU would send plenty of fans to this game. The issue isn't with the teams that have fans in the NYC area. My point is that it remains to be seen whether teams without large fan bases in the NYC area will deliver. People seem to be playing up the best case scenario with respect to Big 12 fans, which is fine, but just need to be realistic about how many people are actually going to travel in from out-of-town. (I seem to recall a lot of consternation about how poorly Texas Tech sent fans to the Gator Bowl.) If the Yankee Bowl exceeds expectations on that front, then that's great and I'll eat crow, but that doesn't mean that it's not a legitimate issue.

(10-01-2009 12:05 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The novelty of a location works for maybe one year at most - after that, it's all about the quality of play. Last year's Orange Bowl, which is in arguably the best possible city you could have a bowl game in at that time of year, wasn't able to sellout and that's a freaking BCS game. I know people will start throwing out extraneous factors for last year's Orange Bowl, but the logic doesn't follow that a bowl game in NYC featuring BE #3/4 and Big 12 #7 (and probably #8 in reality if the Big 12 gets 2 teams into BCS bowls) will sell tickets better than a BCS game featuring 2 conference champs in Miami in December/January. The logic doesn't follow that BE teams that can't sellout their home stadiums that hold 40,000 or 50,000 people will all of the sudden send 30,000 people to an NYC bowl. The logic doesn't follow that when it's going to cost about the same to stay in a Holiday Inn in NYC as it would to be in an ocean view room in a luxury Maui hotel at that time of year that many Big 12 fans are going to choose to make that trip to watch a 7th or 8th place team.

Frank you may be right but you may be wrong.
Living in NYC I would more likely go to see the Orange in Yankee Stadium than in Syracuse. Syracuse is a five hour drive outside of NYC. Yankee Stadium is a fun train ride. I'd also make the trip to see any BE team that's an easy trip.
If this bowl game becomes an event for New YOrkers- it doesn't matter that much who's playing. And New YOrk City has the population here drawing 50,000 is not even a drop in the population bucket.
Also trust that the Yankee management knows how to sell out Yankee Stadium. They've been doing it for nearly a century. They would not guarantee $2 million without looking at the math. Personally, I don't think they are looking at sticking with the BE #4. IF they become a hit in NYC they will improve their payout and their draw. They're not in it to be #2. They got this great stadium that's empty during the winter months and they're trying to figure out to keep it bringing in cash. These are not stupid guys. We have to wait and see what happens here. How the game is promoted.
I think beyond college football, this is a great way to promote the BE FB in NYC. That's going to happen big because of this and that's a bigger win for the owners of Yankee Stadium.

You'd perfer Maui to NYC- You're kidding right?

(10-02-2009 12:21 PM)frogman Wrote:  Frank you may be right but you may be wrong.
Living in NYC I would more likely go to see the Orange in Yankee Stadium than in Syracuse. Syracuse is a five hour drive outside of NYC. Yankee Stadium is a fun train ride. I'd also make the trip to see any BE team that's an easy trip.
If this bowl game becomes an event for New YOrkers- it doesn't matter that much who's playing. And New YOrk City has the population here drawing 50,000 is not even a drop in the population bucket.
Also trust that the Yankee management knows how to sell out Yankee Stadium. They've been doing it for nearly a century. They would not guarantee $2 million without looking at the math. Personally, I don't think they are looking at sticking with the BE #4. IF they become a hit in NYC they will improve their payout and their draw. They're not in it to be #2. They got this great stadium that's empty during the winter months and they're trying to figure out to keep it bringing in cash. These are not stupid guys. We have to wait and see what happens here. How the game is promoted.
I think beyond college football, this is a great way to promote the BE FB in NYC. That's going to happen big because of this and that's a bigger win for the owners of Yankee Stadium.

You'd perfer Maui to NYC- You're kidding right?

As I've said, I agree that if you're talking about Syracuse or another school with a large NYC fan base, then you'll see good attendance. My points are about the people that have to travel out-of-town - that's more of a wait-and-see issue. I also agree with the whole premise of the Yankee Bowl, which is that the Yankees are trying to create offseason revenue.

I've spent plenty of time in both Maui and NYC. If it's the summer or fall, I'll always take NYC. If it's 2 degrees in Chicago in the winter, then I'm all over Maui, Southern California, Florida or any other place that I can comfortably wear shorts outside (preferably with a beach nearby). Of course, I already live by a really big urban cold weather city, so my incentive to travel to another really big urban cold weather city in the winter is low compared to someone that might be from a small town where traveling to a big city is a rare excursion. That's just me, though.

Here's an article from MLB.com on the Yankee bowl. Kinda long so I'll just give the link. Here's a line from the article:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...p&c_id=mlb

Bloomberg hopes the game will become another major holiday event in a city full of them. Yankees President Randy Levine said the game has the potential to become affiliated with New Year's Eve at Times Square in the same way the Rose Bowl is connected to New Year's Day and the Tournament of Roses Parade in Pasadena, Calif.


"Nobody stages big events like the Big Apple. We've got the experience, we've got the resources, and we've got the spirit," New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "It's a win for the fans of both teams playing, and it's a win for New York."

----------------------------------------------

I'm starting to feel that this has little to do with college football as much as it has to do with event. Like the Thanksgiving Day parade in NYC the attempt is to create another event that NYC does bigger than everyone else- from what I'm reading. Which means it becomes a tourist event and part of the New Year's celebration tradition. From the article, they're thinking Rose BOwl as a model. Nothing to do with the BE or B12 in a real sense. These guys are in it to make money and I'm sure they are looking at tourist coming from Japan to visit New YOrk and putting the Yankee Bowl on their agenda and for the local population, it's an event to take your girl during the holidays- Even if you never went to college. This is just about money and they seem to have lined up the people who can make it happen and it seems like the power of the city is behind it.
It's is following a Los Angeles model. The #1 market (NYC) is finally trying to top and the #2 market (L.A.) in cashing in on the Rose bowl level money. They're not even thinking Orange Bowl.

Actually they guarantee $4 million per bowl right out of the box.
We have to see how this plays out but they are not following the rules they are making thier own rules and changing the game.
...and it's about time.

i'm tempering my expectations, my hopes for a big time bowl in ny died when the jets domed stadium in nyc wasn't built. having said that, getting bloomberg and the yankees marketing machine on our side doesn't suck, whether these words are fluff or not we'll see.

The draw of money:

The real news at the end of the article seems to suggest that Notre Dame has agreed to play the BE in the Yankee Bowl if ND is not going to the BCS game and the B12 does not have an "eligible" team. The Yankees have to up the payout to compete with the Rose Bowl. The Rose paid out $30 million in 2005.

http://www.tournamentofroses.com/rosebow...mefaqs.asp

If I were on the Yankee Bowl committee, I'd know this is where we have to be eventually. But let's just see if the Yankee bowl can survive its first four years.

Meadowland also approached the BE about a bowl game. Is it possible to get 2 bowl games in the area? Also there is a rumor that BE is guaranteed $2M for the game while the B12 is guaranteed $1.5M to $2M. Maybe that's why B12 made those comments about payouts.

Either way, it is a good situation for the BE. It is way better than the Sun Bowl situation.

ND, btw, is obsessed with NYC. They want to play here as much as possible.

Frank - flight to Maui is WAY more expensive than flight to NYC. It is easy to fly to NYC. Air fare is usually huge part of the cost that needs to be taken into consideration.

If you view the tape on that MBL.com article they are talking about a "Week-long celebration", city-wide, culminating in the Yankee bowl. In other words they are going to spend all week promoting this event to people who probably couldn't care less about the BE FB or the B12 FB but will want to be part of the New Year attractions in NYC.

THis is not about the BE- this is about Yankee Stadium management and their clout in NYC and expanding the New Year's holiday celebration to bring in more money. But the BE will benefit greatly from these efforts. Heaven knows BE management would never come up with an idea like this. I'm just glad they were smart enough to sign their part ofthe deal.

Quote:The Big East's Marinatto summed it up best, though. "Big East, Big 12, Big Apple," he said. "Big time."

(10-02-2009 02:54 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

Quote:The Big East's Marinatto summed it up best, though. "Big East, Big 12, Big Apple," he said. "Big time."

I hope he is right. But i suspect that #4 BE vs. #7 B12 isn't likely to strike many as "big time".

(10-02-2009 04:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-02-2009 02:54 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

Quote:The Big East's Marinatto summed it up best, though. "Big East, Big 12, Big Apple," he said. "Big time."

I hope he is right. But i suspect that #4 BE vs. #7 B12 isn't likely to strike many as "big time".

Remember its in its infancy and has to start somewhere. I bet next go around you're looking at the Big East #3 vs. #4/5 (3rd/4th Selection after BCS pick(s)) B12/B10. Then the go around after you're looking at Big East #2 vs. #3 (2nd selection after BCS pick(s)) B12/B10 and its been moved to the Meadowlands. This bowl will grow and last, the Yankees Organization isn't stupid. It'll never be a BCS bowl because of the winter location outdoors but it can and quite possibly will be a 1st tier non-BCS game in time.

better than pizza vs sec9 which it currently is

(10-02-2009 04:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-02-2009 02:54 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

Quote:The Big East's Marinatto summed it up best, though. "Big East, Big 12, Big Apple," he said. "Big time."

I hope he is right. But i suspect that #4 BE vs. #7 B12 isn't likely to strike many as "big time".

Boy are your expectations off the roof on this. It is a new bowl late to the bowl discussion. Do you expect them to get #2 BE and #3 B12 on the 1st try? Give the bowl a chance. It can't be good for your health to be this negative all the time.

(10-05-2009 02:53 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(10-02-2009 04:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-02-2009 02:54 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

Quote:The Big East's Marinatto summed it up best, though. "Big East, Big 12, Big Apple," he said. "Big time."

I hope he is right. But i suspect that #4 BE vs. #7 B12 isn't likely to strike many as "big time".

Boy are your expectations off the roof on this. It is a new bowl late to the bowl discussion. Do you expect them to get #2 BE and #3 B12 on the 1st try? Give the bowl a chance. It can't be good for your health to be this negative all the time.

lol, get em sf.
u know of the beat writer 4 the huskies, i sent him few emails bout a local kid def end who is available cause it didn't work out for him at his last school, kid is 2o yrs 6-5 270. he got back 2 me via email a few times and gave me contacts at uconn,.

(10-05-2009 03:08 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  lol, get em sf.
u know of the beat writer 4 the huskies, i sent him few emails bout a local kid def end who is available cause it didn't work out for him at his last school, kid is 2o yrs 6-5 270. he got back 2 me via email a few times and gave me contacts at uconn,.

Somebody has to be the balance for the Debbie Downers of the board. Did you email Desmond? He has been great for UCONN football. I hope UCONN keep recruiting kids in the NE. I think many kids there are way underrated relative to their potential.

Anyway, Yankee Bowl is a big improvement over Sun Bowl anyway you look at it.