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Updated attendance for Big East
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
Except Im not Neil. I'm Cuseroc.
Oh, well, if you've seen one Cuse fan, I guess you've seen them all. 03-lmfao
10-01-2009 03:27 PM
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RE: Updated attendance for Big East
Chalk it up to mental pause. I always get you and omni mixed up for some reason. But you two are the only cuse fans I mix up in my head...
10-01-2009 03:29 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-01-2009 02:20 PM)KnightChris Wrote:  
(10-01-2009 12:40 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  In the South, I believe many people are raised to cheer for the team even when they are not alums of the schools they are cheering for. I think that's the key difference. For example, the 49er fanbase is totally different than Cal's. You can tell most Cal fans are college graduates while many 49er/Raider fans certainly are not. This is also why most Pac-10 teams in CA don't have great fan traveling reputation like the SEC.

I think this may very well be true, although I'll stop short of saying I believe it to be true. Syracuse certainly has its share of non-alum fans, so it exists everywhere, though whether it's more prevalent in the south is unknown to me. I did live in Central Florida briefly, but how "southern" that is is debatable, and the non-alum UCF fans were in short supply (great student support though, and this was back when they were Indy).

The whole phenomenon of "bandwagon" fandom on the college level, or simply rooting for a school you did not attend fascinates (or rather, perplexes) me. I honestly don't think I could do it, nor do I understand why anyone would. I'd feel like an idiot cheering for someone else's alma mater.

Case in point, I was born in Syracuse and thus had more than a passing interest in its school's sports teams, but never really "cheered" for them until I attended the university. However, I know many Syracuse natives that will cheer for the 'Cuse even when they take on their actual alma mater! 01-wingedeagle IMO, those people should have their fan privileges revoked.

Most people have some lame rationalization for their support. One of my favorites being, "my mom/dad/aunt/uncle" went there. I've always thought that sort of misses the point though. We live and die by our college teams because it reminds us of those wonderful memories at the college bars, the parties, that jerk professor we all had, running thru the quad when you were late for class, cramming into the student section on gameday, etc. It's a very emotional connection to a part of our lives that these "fans" don't have and can't vicariously obtain via their parents' college days.

Wow, long rant that had very little to do with the tangent to the original post topic (attendance). Sorry!

Something that most yanke....errr, I mean...people of Northern upbringing...tend to forget is that universities in the South are historically the economic engine that pulls the train for their respective communities. While Northern states have industries such as steel, auto, textiles that have provided the high wage employment for the majority of your citizenry, down here, that major employer is often the university and it's subsidiaries...med schools, hospitals, etc. You'd be hard pressed to find a family in NC, Alabama, Miss, Tenn...who doesn't have a family member working in a job that is not some way directly related to a large public university. People support and cheer what puts food on the table. In Greenville, NC, a town of 80,000+, it's been said that 78% of the jobs are either directly or indirectly related to East Carolina and it's subsidiaries (Med School, Hospital, etc). Thats enough to make people cheer right there. And not everyone gets to go to college...thats more of a privilege here than a right...but everyone can cheer for a team...I've often found that some of the BEST fans out there, never attended the school they root for. (that means "cheer")

You can use really any school in the south as an example, but I'll take a swing at NC State for whoopie sake. If you farm, and you live in North Carolina, you are an NC State fan. Period. Doesn't matter if you or anyone in your family went to school there. Why? Simple...they are the ag school. Thanks to the folks over at NCSU, you can successfully breed a cow with a turnip green (that's the leafy part of a turnip). In a North Carolina farmers mind, NC State is responsible for the sun coming up in the morning and the moon rising in the evening. It's that simple. They put on the fair, they send people out to check on your crops, they make sure your fertilizer smells right...of course you are going to cheer for them. You are going to send your kids to school there...you are going to send your money there...Unless you are communist. Which brings me to UNC fans...

...perhaps the best southern example of people that don't go to school somewhere but cheer for a team. UNC, arguably, has more non-alum fans than any school in the country. Part of it is because, quite frankly, there are a lot of dumb-asses in our country. But also because it is the liberal bastion of higher learning....liberals need to cheer for sports too, so they cheer for UNC...and there are a lot of liberals out there...just look at the last election. Oh yeah, and they've had a good basketball team since Jesus himself hit that buzzer beater back in 18 A.D. People like to cheer for a winner. Seriously...have you ever met anyone that said..."I really like them cause they suck..."? Didn't think so. Incidentally, I'd venture to guess that UNC has more non-alum Yanke....errrrr Northern fans than any northern school out there.

Southerners are passionate about their football because...well...its a social event...most Yanke....damn, there I go again...Northern schools simply don't understand. At a SEC game with 80,000 in the stadium, there are 50,000 more parked around the stadium eating, drinking, and otherwise having a good time while the game is going on. Even in podunk (that means "insignificant") little Greenville, NC...game day brings and estimated 75,000 extra people to the city...and we only seat 43,000. We tailgate, party, catch up, get rowdy (that means "let loose")...just have fun. Doesn't matter if you went to school there...its an excuse to get together 5-6 times a year with a few thousand others. I've been to games all over the country for the past 20+ years...and I can unequivocally say that this is not the case in the Northern states. One or two schools come close, but nothing like Southern schools. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know, tell me all about how your school up yonder does so-in-so...it doesn't. Sorry. Love ya, mean it...but it doesn't. The atmosphere surrounding a 106,000 seat Michigan doesn't come close to that of a 90,000 UGA. It really doesn't. It's completely different from a fan perspective. Probably cause down here, we don't give a damn where you went to school...you're here now and that's all that matters.

Oh yeah, and it's warmer. And we drink more. And our girls are prettier. That's probably got something to do with it. Now before ya'll get all persnickity (that means "pissed off") you know I'm playing with you guys...I've got way too much time on my hands today, but I just want to set the Southern record straight...since your USF board members probably won't, even though they are supposed to be toting (that means "carrying") the southern flag. Bless ya'll...and good night!
04-cheers
10-01-2009 04:11 PM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #64
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-01-2009 04:11 PM)swash Wrote:  Which brings me to UNC fans...

...perhaps the best southern example of people that don't go to school somewhere but cheer for a team. UNC, arguably, has more non-alum fans than any school in the country. Part of it is because, quite frankly, there are a lot of dumb-asses in our country. But also because it is the liberal bastion of higher learning....liberals need to cheer for sports too, so they cheer for UNC...and there are a lot of liberals out there...just look at the last election. Oh yeah, and they've had a good basketball team since Jesus himself hit that buzzer beater back in 18 A.D. People like to cheer for a winner. Seriously...have you ever met anyone that said..."I really like them cause they suck..."? Didn't think so. Incidentally, I'd venture to guess that UNC has more non-alum Yanke....errrrr Northern fans than any northern school out there.

Enjoyed your post. Substitute Duke and/or Notre Dame for UNC with respect to non-alum "Yankees" and I think you're right in line there. Incidentally, our favorite Duke supporter Dick Vitale has season tickets to Notre Dame football. In other news, he holds a weekly card game with Darth Vader and the dude that shot Bambi's mom.
10-01-2009 04:34 PM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #65
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-01-2009 02:20 PM)KnightChris Wrote:  I think this may very well be true, although I'll stop short of saying I believe it to be true. Syracuse certainly has its share of non-alum fans, so it exists everywhere, though whether it's more prevalent in the south is unknown to me. I did live in Central Florida briefly, but how "southern" that is is debatable, and the non-alum UCF fans were in short supply (great student support though, and this was back when they were Indy).

The whole phenomenon of "bandwagon" fandom on the college level, or simply rooting for a school you did not attend fascinates (or rather, perplexes) me. I honestly don't think I could do it, nor do I understand why anyone would. I'd feel like an idiot cheering for someone else's alma mater.

Case in point, I was born in Syracuse and thus had more than a passing interest in its school's sports teams, but never really "cheered" for them until I attended the university. However, I know many Syracuse natives that will cheer for the 'Cuse even when they take on their actual alma mater! 01-wingedeagle IMO, those people should have their fan privileges revoked.

Most people have some lame rationalization for their support. One of my favorites being, "my mom/dad/aunt/uncle" went there. I've always thought that sort of misses the point though. We live and die by our college teams because it reminds us of those wonderful memories at the college bars, the parties, that jerk professor we all had, running thru the quad when you were late for class, cramming into the student section on gameday, etc. It's a very emotional connection to a part of our lives that these "fans" don't have and can't vicariously obtain via their parents' college days.

Wow, long rant that had very little to do with the tangent to the original post topic (attendance). Sorry!

I totally agree with this. Bill Simmons on ESPN.com might be a little too full of himself sometimes, but his column on Rules of Being a Fan is pretty much spot on. It's not just college teams - this extends to pro teams as well. You have to be suspicious of anyone that claims to be a Cowboys/Bulls/Yankees fan that grew up in the 1990s but never lived in Dallas, Chicago or New York, or any current Boston sports team fan that's not from New England. I'll never begrudge a Notre Dame fan that actually attended Notre Dame, but it's nauseating seeing people that flunked out of community college claim some type of superiority in cheering for ND.

If you grew up in a town with a pro sports team in a certain sport, you shouldn't be allowed to cheer for a team from a different city for that sport. Likewise, you shouldn't be allowed to cheer for a college team that's different from the college that you actually attended.
10-01-2009 04:54 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
UC is I believe the biggest or one of the biggest employers in Cincy (maybe only behind P&G...).....UC is either #1 or #2 I do know that. One of my Bearcat brethren may be able to solidify what I'm saying here...
10-01-2009 10:09 PM
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Post: #67
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
While I recognize that Universities in the north and South are easily the largest employers in their respective cities/areas, I think you guys have failed to understand my premise that in the South, traditionally, they are the ONLY large employers in their respective areas. If it wasn't for these southern colleges, many of these southern towns would cease to exist. The community recognizes this, and supports them...whether they went to school there or not.
10-02-2009 08:23 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-01-2009 10:09 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  UC is I believe the biggest or one of the biggest employers in Cincy (maybe only behind P&G...).....UC is either #1 or #2 I do know that. One of my Bearcat brethren may be able to solidify what I'm saying here...

UC is the largest employer in Southwestern Ohio and Northern Kentucky. The Kroger Co. is #2.
10-02-2009 10:16 AM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #69
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 10:07 AM)KnightChris Wrote:  I guess my point is that I don't believe it's a god-given right to have a college football team to root for. If you didn't go to college, just watch the NFL. If my employer had a football team I wouldn't cheer for it. My employer can fire me. My school isn't going to take my degree back though. A school helps make you what you are, supports you no matter what happens in your life, and tries to keep in touch with you long after you leave the town. It's more like an extended family.

For that matter, lots of small towns (southern or otherwise) have single employers that basically keep that town alive and they're NOT schools. I doubt anyone not employed by that company is showing up at their corporate headquarters waving signs and cheering like crazy.

Let's just call this what it is: a bunch of people want to root for a football team, have no rational reason to do so beyond a desire to and an affinity for football, so they invent some lame melodramatic rationale. I think it's stupid in Syracuse, and I think it's stupid everywhere else. However, those people buy our sweatshirts and put money in the coffers of my school, so more power to 'em!

To say that anyone is there out of appreciation for what the university does for the town strikes me as disingenuous. I somehow doubt these people would "appreciate" the school's good deeds as much if the football team was 0-12, or show their appreciation to the women's field hockey team. These are just people that want to watch football, and that's fine. I'm just saying I don't think I could do it and would feel like a complete idiot if I tried.

I agree with this in principle. To be fair, though, isn't cheering for any pro sports team irrational in the same vain? As Jerry Seinfeld stated, we're really "rooting for laundry". I love the Chicago Bears, but very few of those players are from Chicago and players come-and-go to the highest bidder year after year. They really aren't the "Chicago" Bears as much as "An NFL Franchise Owned by the McCaskey/Halas Family That Received Millions in Taxpayer Dollars for a Renovated Stadium in Order to Stay in Chicago" Bears. However, I still cheer for them because I grew up in the Chicago area. It's not rational, but the connection is still there. So, I can somewhat understand that if you grew up in an area without a pro sports team that you'd latch onto a college team (although I agree that no one should be rooting against the college he or she actually attended).
10-02-2009 10:24 AM
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Post: #70
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 10:07 AM)KnightChris Wrote:  I guess my point is that I don't believe it's a god-given right to have a college football team to root for. If you didn't go to college, just watch the NFL. If my employer had a football team I wouldn't cheer for it. My employer can fire me. My school isn't going to take my degree back though. A school helps make you what you are, supports you no matter what happens in your life, and tries to keep in touch with you long after you leave the town. It's more like an extended family.

For that matter, lots of small towns (southern or otherwise) have single employers that basically keep that town alive and they're NOT schools. I doubt anyone not employed by that company is showing up at their corporate headquarters waving signs and cheering like crazy.

Let's just call this what it is: a bunch of people want to root for a football team, have no rational reason to do so beyond a desire to and an affinity for football, so they invent some lame melodramatic rationale. I think it's stupid in Syracuse, and I think it's stupid everywhere else. However, those people buy our sweatshirts and put money in the coffers of my school, so more power to 'em!

To say that anyone is there out of appreciation for what the university does for the town strikes me as disingenuous. I somehow doubt these people would "appreciate" the school's good deeds as much if the football team was 0-12, or show their appreciation to the women's field hockey team. These are just people that want to watch football, and that's fine. I'm just saying I don't think I could do it and would feel like a complete idiot if I tried.

Why do people cheer for pro teams? Seriously? The only reason pro sports of any kind have taken root in the South is because you guys keep moving down here, and we have to find something to keep you occupied while we pick your pockets. 04-cheers

You ask if a school went 0-12 would the fans still have the appreciation? Sure...Williams Brice stadium didn't miss a beat when the Gamecocks sucked large. Again...you're looking at one thing I said and making it the premise...it's not the case everywhere...but Southerners are more passionate about their college football than Northerners because its part of our fabric...it's how we are brought up. These little town exist ONLY because there is a school there...period. You're damn right they are going to support it. Sounds funny to some, but until you've lived in an Auburn, Alabama, a Hattiesburg, MS, a Tuscaloosa, AL, a Greenville, NC...it's difficult to fathom.
10-02-2009 12:46 PM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #71
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 10:35 AM)KnightChris Wrote:  
(10-02-2009 10:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I agree with this in principle. To be fair, though, isn't cheering for any pro sports team irrational in the same vain? As Jerry Seinfeld stated, we're really "rooting for laundry".

To a degree. However, in the case of college sports there is a clear hierarchy of fans. I would love to root for Penn State, could make a lame case for doing so via family alums, but won't. The reason is that I would always feel like a second-class citizen to the students and alums. I will never have as deep an emotional connection to that school as they do. In the case of the Jets, I feel like we're all in the same boat since nobody can really lay claim to being more of a Jets fan than anyone else. There was no Jets University after all.

That's part of the reason fan fervor is often greater for college sports. Let's not forget that the team you're cheering for is 100% filled with people that GO TO THAT SCHOOL. It's that common bond that breeds such high levels of fan passion. How could I possibly expect to feel as deep a connection with that team as an actual alum when the most important common bond is absent?

...but yeah, at the pro level we really are just rooting for laundry. It's something I try not to think about honestly, but it is kinda silly. Like I said, at least we're all in the same boat though.

I'm with you all the way here. It's definitely a different emotional connection between what you have with your college versus what you have with a pro team.

I don't have quite as much of a problem if you cheer for a college that you didn't attend as long as: (1) you didn't attend a college that plays Division 1 sports, (2) you would've more likely than not been accepted to that college if you had applied there (MIT grads can cheer for anyone they want, while those that were only able to attend the University of Phoenix aren't allowed to cheer for anyone) and (3) you can't claim some type of superiority because you cheer for that team (ridiculous to hear about the academic standards of Notre Dame and Duke from people that would've been rejected from any Big Ten or Big East university).
10-02-2009 01:25 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 10:35 AM)KnightChris Wrote:  
(10-02-2009 10:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I agree with this in principle. To be fair, though, isn't cheering for any pro sports team irrational in the same vain? As Jerry Seinfeld stated, we're really "rooting for laundry".

To a degree. However, in the case of college sports there is a clear hierarchy of fans. I would love to root for Penn State, could make a lame case for doing so via family alums, but won't. The reason is that I would always feel like a second-class citizen to the students and alums. I will never have as deep an emotional connection to that school as they do. In the case of the Jets, I feel like we're all in the same boat since nobody can really lay claim to being more of a Jets fan than anyone else. There was no Jets University after all.

That's part of the reason fan fervor is often greater for college sports. Let's not forget that the team you're cheering for is 100% filled with people that GO TO THAT SCHOOL. It's that common bond that breeds such high levels of fan passion. How could I possibly expect to feel as deep a connection with that team as an actual alum when the most important common bond is absent?

...but yeah, at the pro level we really are just rooting for laundry. It's something I try not to think about honestly, but it is kinda silly. Like I said, at least we're all in the same boat though.

Good comment. This pretty much summarized the difference between SEC and BE/Pac-10 fans, which was my original point in addition to most college graduates have more options for entertainment.
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2009 01:36 PM by SF Husky.)
10-02-2009 01:35 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
I've been watching this conversation for a while, and I've noticed you both miss a key point. Most schools outside the east are land grant schools. Many universities outside of the east were granted land by the state and the schools placed away from the cities, to promote a scholastic attitude. These college towns grew up around the university, and the university is the engine that drives these communities. In The BEast, only WVU fits that bill. All other BEast schools come from much larger communities. The Pac Tin has a similar problem for most of it's schools...
10-02-2009 02:38 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 02:38 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I've been watching this conversation for a while, and I've noticed you both miss a key point. Most schools outside the east are land grant schools. Many universities outside of the east were granted land by the state and the schools placed away from the cities, to promote a scholastic attitude. These college towns grew up around the university, and the university is the engine that drives these communities. In The BEast, only WVU fits that bill. All other BEast schools come from much larger communities. The Pac Tin has a similar problem for most of it's schools...

That's true. As a result of the lack of those land grant colleges, I think that there's also more emphasis on private universities in the Northeast (there's sort of this stigma against "state schools") that doesn't exist to the same degree elsewhere. SEC schools are often aspirational first choice schools for people in the South, while public schools in the Northeast sometimes are looked at as backup schools if you can't get into the Ivy League. (Before anyone jumps on me for that observation, my alma mater of Illinois has long held that type of stereotype to the point that it was even immortalized by Hollywood - please see Tom Cruise's "Looks like it's the University of Illinois!" comment in Risky Business after having a bad Princeton interview.) Frankly, it starts even earlier than college - there's a significant emphasis on getting into prestigious private elementary and secondary schools on the East Coast, whereas in most other places in the country, people are more concerned about the quality of public school districts.
10-02-2009 02:58 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Updated attendance for Big East
(10-02-2009 04:24 PM)KnightChris Wrote:  In an ironic "only in New York" type twist, the (and by "the" I mean ONLY) land-grant university for the state of New York is an Ivy. Hence the common Cornell joke "we should join the Big Ten." Otherwise everything you just wrote is accurate, NY is just a bizarre exception.

It also means bitcruncher and I finally have something in common besides a love of the Big East and an abiding respect for Ben Schwartzwalder: we both went to our state's land-grant university. 04-cheers

Ah yes - forgot that Cornell was created as land grant college (albeit mostly private with some of the schools getting public-esque funding). That hockey program could take Cornell places - the Ivy League is holding them back!
10-02-2009 04:31 PM
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