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Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
If true, this is a "Read my Lips.. No New Taxes Moment" for Obama. If he rams this through, he is for sure "One and Done" ! Lets see how the CBO scores this. But wait, I also see an Amendment coming up that exempts Union Health Plans from any tax... :muttering:

It's not every day that you hear a Democratic senator charge that a fellow Democrat is proposing to raise taxes on the middle class, but that is what happened on Tuesday when Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., ripped into the health-care bill developed by Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mt., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

The Baucus proposal would impose, starting in 2013, a 35 percent excise tax on insurance companies for "high-cost plans" -- defined as those above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for family plans.

Health economists believe a tax on high-priced benefits could help slow the growth of health costs by making consumers more sensitive to prices.

The tax contemplated by Baucus is also a big revenue raiser. It is expected to raise $200 billion, money that Baucus is hoping to use to pay for subsidies for the uninsured.

Given how much money this kind of tax can raise, Rockefeller says he understands why it is "tempting."

The West Virginia Democrat worries, however, that a lot of middle class workers, like the coal miners in his state, will end up facing "a big, big tax" under the Baucus bill because they currently enjoy generous employer-provided health care benefits which they receive tax free.

Referring to Baucus, Rockefeller said, "He should understand that (his proposal) means that virtually every single coal miner is going to have a big, big tax put on them because the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down and lower benefits because they are self insured, most of them, because they are larger. They will pass it down, lower benefits, and probably this will mean higher premiums for coal miners who are getting very good health care benefits for a very good reason. That is, like steelworkers and others, they are doing about the most dangerous job that can be done in America."

"So that’s not really a smart idea," Rockefeller continued. "In fact, it’s a very dangerous idea, and I’m not even sure the coal miners in West Virginia are aware that this is what is waiting if this bill passes."

Rockefeller made his comments on a conference call with reporters which was sponsored by the liberal Campaign for America's Future.

Rockefeller, who sits on the Finance Committee, said that he cannot support the Baucus bill unless it receives major improvements during the amendment process.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09...-bill.html
09-16-2009 05:37 PM
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Tripster Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
.

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.
09-16-2009 06:34 PM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
difference being that the MSM will not replay Obama's no new taxes pledge over and over and over, like they did in 1992.
09-16-2009 07:49 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
"Big, Big Tax." Let's call it what it really is, a big, big decrease in pay.
09-16-2009 09:11 PM
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I45owl Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.

With respect to a provision that makes consumers more responsive to the price of medical services, Baucus is the one that sounds like a libertarian while Rockefeller is the populist/socialist (which is more consistent with what I recall about him). If health care reform is to be done, IMHO, it has to include something to make consumers responsive to the price of services, and that will hurt (almost across the board).

Health care "coops" are a sham - they're are to a "public option" what the public option is to private insurance providers remaining in business.
09-17-2009 01:35 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.
Don't worry Trips, the President will NOT sign this plan. The Democrats will NOT pass it. If the right won't go for it(although, the right won't go for any bill that goes in front of them).
09-17-2009 01:42 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 01:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.

With respect to a provision that makes consumers more responsive to the price of medical services, Baucus is the one that sounds like a libertarian while Rockefeller is the populist/socialist (which is more consistent with what I recall about him). If health care reform is to be done, IMHO, it has to include something to make consumers responsive to the price of services, and that will hurt (almost across the board).

Health care "coops" are a sham - they're are to a "public option" what the public option is to private insurance providers remaining in business.
Have to agree. From all I have heard this is a goldmine for big business and junk for the middle class and won't do anything to lower rates. In fact, with the no-drop/no pre-existing conditions, it is likely they will jack up their prices in order to contine to make the stockholders happy.
09-17-2009 01:48 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
Paying taxes is your civic duty. I hope the DU folks chastise Rockefeller appropriately. (Rockefeller, freakin' robber baron name.)
09-17-2009 07:23 AM
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I45owl Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 01:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Have to agree. From all I have heard this is a goldmine for big business and junk for the middle class and won't do anything to lower rates. In fact, with the no-drop/no pre-existing conditions, it is likely they will jack up their prices in order to contine to make the stockholders happy.

Yes, that's what distinguishes insurance from welfare. Private companies aren't in the welfare business.
09-17-2009 08:16 AM
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 01:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 01:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .
Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.
Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????
I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.
These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!
The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!
.
With respect to a provision that makes consumers more responsive to the price of medical services, Baucus is the one that sounds like a libertarian while Rockefeller is the populist/socialist (which is more consistent with what I recall about him). If health care reform is to be done, IMHO, it has to include something to make consumers responsive to the price of services, and that will hurt (almost across the board).
Health care "coops" are a sham - they're are to a "public option" what the public option is to private insurance providers remaining in business.
Have to agree. From all I have heard this is a goldmine for big business and junk for the middle class and won't do anything to lower rates. In fact, with the no-drop/no pre-existing conditions, it is likely they will jack up their prices in order to contine to make the stockholders happy.

Who are you and what have you done with Robert???

Your best post ever, Rob.
You exhibit an understanding that this particular "reform" proposal is really a sham.
When you realize that every other "reform" effort currently underway is equally a sham, then you'll truly be making progress.
09-17-2009 08:21 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
I think Obama isn't giving this proposal glowing reviews and the democrats aren't either, ergo, Robert wont.

Edit: Agreed it is a better post than his standard "racist" post. Maybe a burglar is in his apartment?
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2009 08:34 AM by Paul M.)
09-17-2009 08:32 AM
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Tripster Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 01:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.

With respect to a provision that makes consumers more responsive to the price of medical services, Baucus is the one that sounds like a libertarian while Rockefeller is the populist/socialist (which is more consistent with what I recall about him). If health care reform is to be done, IMHO, it has to include something to make consumers responsive to the price of services, and that will hurt (almost across the board).

Health care "coops" are a sham - they're are to a "public option" what the public option is to private insurance providers remaining in business.

So instead of making Insurance Available across State Lines and such and we DEAL HARSHLY with TORT Reform, we just take the path of least resistance as usual and punish those how have done nothing to deserve said punishment ??????

That is just broken down tired old SOS that is breaking our backs as it is.

There are TOO MANY OTHER THINGS that can be done to fix this without ever using a Hostile Take Over of 1/6th of our entire economy.

This is insanity .......

And is just like cutting off the hand of the Victim of a Theft because the Victim had tempted the thief to steal by owning something the Thief Coveted ....... and the Thief walks away UNPUNISHED !!!!!!!!

It is not right to whip us down like this all the time, not it just isn't, we've down NOTHING to deserve it.

.
09-17-2009 08:57 AM
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 08:57 AM)Tripster Wrote:  So instead of making Insurance Available across State Lines and such and we DEAL HARSHLY with TORT Reform, we just take the path of least resistance as usual and punish those how have done nothing to deserve said punishment ??????

Alot of those same folks voted for this administration.

Can't say they weren't warned.
09-17-2009 09:17 AM
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I45owl Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 08:57 AM)Tripster Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 01:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-16-2009 06:34 PM)Tripster Wrote:  .

Baucus is surely looking and sounding a LOT like a Van Jones type with every word he says and writes.

Why on Earth would you Punish Middle Class Taxpayers because Insurance Companies are gouging the begeezus out of them ?????

I mean how many more taxes can you put on 100% of a Person Salary ... well DUH, only 100%.

These are the stupidest people I believe I will ever see hold any sort of Office at any level !!!!!!!!

The Rape of America is the most shameful thing I have witnessed in my entire life and we have to put a stop to it NOW !!!!!!!

.

With respect to a provision that makes consumers more responsive to the price of medical services, Baucus is the one that sounds like a libertarian while Rockefeller is the populist/socialist (which is more consistent with what I recall about him). If health care reform is to be done, IMHO, it has to include something to make consumers responsive to the price of services, and that will hurt (almost across the board).

Health care "coops" are a sham - they're are to a "public option" what the public option is to private insurance providers remaining in business.

So instead of making Insurance Available across State Lines and such and we DEAL HARSHLY with TORT Reform, we just take the path of least resistance as usual and punish those how have done nothing to deserve said punishment ??????

That is just broken down tired old SOS that is breaking our backs as it is.

There are TOO MANY OTHER THINGS that can be done to fix this without ever using a Hostile Take Over of 1/6th of our entire economy.

This is insanity .......

And is just like cutting off the hand of the Victim of a Theft because the Victim had tempted the thief to steal by owning something the Thief Coveted ....... and the Thief walks away UNPUNISHED !!!!!!!!

It is not right to whip us down like this all the time, not it just isn't, we've down NOTHING to deserve it.

.


Ok, I read this part:

Quote:Health economists believe a tax on high-priced benefits could help slow the growth of health costs by making consumers more sensitive to prices.

And skimmed over this part:

Quote:The Baucus proposal would impose, starting in 2013, a 35 percent excise tax on insurance companies for "high-cost plans" -- defined as those above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for family plans.


Making consumers more sensitive to prices is a good thing in preventing growth of health care costs. The luxury tax is crap.

I forget who it was, but there was an economist or reporter talking about how he chose not to have insurance, and went into the doctors office and had to ask about the cost of procedures. The doctor, nurses, insurance handlers were all dumfounded because they didn't themselves know what the procedures cost without talking it through with insurance companies, and none of them could answer the question. I've had the same experience - it's like pulling teeth to find out how much something is going to cost before it goes through the billing/insurance grinder.
09-17-2009 09:59 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 08:16 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 01:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Have to agree. From all I have heard this is a goldmine for big business and junk for the middle class and won't do anything to lower rates. In fact, with the no-drop/no pre-existing conditions, it is likely they will jack up their prices in order to contine to make the stockholders happy.

Yes, that's what distinguishes insurance from welfare. Private companies aren't in the welfare business.
03-lmfao Still buying into the free healthcare **** the Republicans are shoveling? You should try to get your info from places other than Faux.
09-17-2009 01:17 PM
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Tripster Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
(09-17-2009 01:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 08:16 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 01:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Have to agree. From all I have heard this is a goldmine for big business and junk for the middle class and won't do anything to lower rates. In fact, with the no-drop/no pre-existing conditions, it is likely they will jack up their prices in order to contine to make the stockholders happy.

Yes, that's what distinguishes insurance from welfare. Private companies aren't in the welfare business.
03-lmfao Still buying into the free healthcare **** the Republicans are shoveling? You should try to get your info from places other than Faux.

Now you see I45, why the Country is in the sh't house with all the Roberts butting in on conversations and they add nothing but sputum blather to the mix.

I see some of the point of making consumers drop down on their Caviar Insurances, but if this is a Free Society, why do we punish a group of Free People from spending their money the way THEY WANT TOO ????

It is all about Class Envy and Class Warfare to keep certain Parties in Heights of Power and that is all that is about.

.
09-17-2009 01:49 PM
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I45owl Offline
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
Robert, I'm fairly sure you would fail the Turing Test.
09-17-2009 03:18 PM
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RE: Dem Senator: 'Big, Big Tax' on Middle Class in Baucus Bill
"This is the biggest piece of **** I've seen in 30 years in government" ----Howard Dean.
09-17-2009 07:14 PM
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