Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
Author Message
RobertN Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,485
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation: 95
I Root For: THE NIU Huskies
Location: Wayne's World
Post: #41
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 01:14 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(09-15-2009 01:08 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
1. Without knowing why it is not allowed now(there could be a very good reason), I think it should be.

Why don't you tell us?

Quote:2. He need INSURANCE because if he ***** up, he will be sued. If some doctor ****** up on one of your relatives(hope it doesn't happen), do you want someone to tell you how much your relative is worth. THat is what you are asking for-"rationing". I thought you didn't like rationing?

No way in HELL should they need as much as they carry. There's a reason doctors are leaving in droves and heading to states like Florida with Tort reform laws. You'll have them move to other countries.

Quote:3. THere are so many because it is for your safety. There will be more to come.

Hey buddy, NO F'N THANK YOU. I don't NEED the FEDERAL government acting as my f'n nanny. I'm not a lib.

Quote:4. I am for competition but what you want will be like the wild west.

No, I want what has made this country the greatest, most prosperous, and most envied country on the face of the Earth, Free-Market Capitalism. Doctors are swimming to f'n Cuba to treat patients. They're coming here.
1. If there was a reason that I heard of, I would tell you. Most things have a reason. I just don't know what it is. 2. Could be the tort reforms or it could be that their is a large population down there. As I said, you don't want anyone getting in between you and your doctor and complain that with a government plan you can't sue the insurance comppany. Your opinions just seem all over the place and not consistent. 3. So we should take away government food safety, drug safety, product safety too based on your opinion. You are starting to sound more and more like Fo all the time. 4. I am not sure what you say you want ansd was there intent was actually the founders intent(wild west free for all).
09-15-2009 01:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,374
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 184
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #42
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 12:31 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(09-15-2009 11:31 AM)I45owl Wrote:  When polls sample substantially more than that, they only do so because of political objections about the sample size - they don't do it to increase accuracy. I doubt that you would find the results to be more than 3% different if you sampled 100,000. What could sway the results substantially are changing how the questions are phrased or asking the same question +/- one day. I take Mach's side with regard to the statistics.

So you're saying all dynamics, throughout the country, are essentially exactly the same? That the South polls just as the North and West? That people in North Dakota poll the same way people poll in West Virginia?

I'm saying that whatever the dynamics are in a group (in this case, the 320 million Americans), taking a random sample of sufficient size should fairly represent those dynamics (as long as there is no systemic bias of the sample, such as polling 500 North Dakotans and 500 West Virginians). And, I believe that 1000 is a sufficient sample size.


(09-15-2009 01:31 PM)Claw Wrote:  When your poll results start nearing a 50/50 split, the 3% margin of error becomes significant. At that point an increase of sample size is recommended.

The wording of the questions is more potent than the mathematics. I think it is Peter Yen's "The Art of Asking Questions" that used to be the recommended study. I'm sure that's changed over the years.

You have to address the question: Why does the proportion matter more at 50/50 than it does at 10/90? If you are not talking about opinion polls, there's no statistical basis for that rule, although it does decrease the statistical margin of error. If you are talking about opinion polls, then the reason for the increase in sample size is primarily CYA - the statistical margin of error is almost certainly far less than other variables like the phrasing of the question or what the lead item on the news is.
09-15-2009 02:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WoodlandsOwl Offline
Up in the Woods
*

Posts: 11,813
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 115
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location:

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #43
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 01:00 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(09-15-2009 12:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Is "You liar" the next man on the right that will beat the Democrats in 2012? 03-lmfao

He said, "You Lie" not "You Liar".

I bought a couple of T-Shirts.

[Image: withjoe.jpg]

http://www.madeinmultiples.com/imwithjoe.aspx
09-15-2009 02:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tripster Offline
Most Dangerous Man on a Keyboard
*

Posts: 3,140
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 16
I Root For: The Best Only
Location: Where the Action is
Post: #44
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 12:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Is "You liar" the next man on the right that will beat the Democrats in 2012? 03-lmfao

Why not, he is the only man in the entire Chamber that TOLD THE TRUTH THAT NIGHT !!!!!!!!!!

Those ARE the Facts, AND they are Undisputed !!!!!!!!!


.
09-15-2009 06:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Claw Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 24,898
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1225
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Orangeville HELP!
Post: #45
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 02:21 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(09-15-2009 12:31 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(09-15-2009 11:31 AM)I45owl Wrote:  When polls sample substantially more than that, they only do so because of political objections about the sample size - they don't do it to increase accuracy. I doubt that you would find the results to be more than 3% different if you sampled 100,000. What could sway the results substantially are changing how the questions are phrased or asking the same question +/- one day. I take Mach's side with regard to the statistics.

So you're saying all dynamics, throughout the country, are essentially exactly the same? That the South polls just as the North and West? That people in North Dakota poll the same way people poll in West Virginia?

I'm saying that whatever the dynamics are in a group (in this case, the 320 million Americans), taking a random sample of sufficient size should fairly represent those dynamics (as long as there is no systemic bias of the sample, such as polling 500 North Dakotans and 500 West Virginians). And, I believe that 1000 is a sufficient sample size.


(09-15-2009 01:31 PM)Claw Wrote:  When your poll results start nearing a 50/50 split, the 3% margin of error becomes significant. At that point an increase of sample size is recommended.

The wording of the questions is more potent than the mathematics. I think it is Peter Yen's "The Art of Asking Questions" that used to be the recommended study. I'm sure that's changed over the years.

You have to address the question: Why does the proportion matter more at 50/50 than it does at 10/90? If you are not talking about opinion polls, there's no statistical basis for that rule, although it does decrease the statistical margin of error. If you are talking about opinion polls, then the reason for the increase in sample size is primarily CYA - the statistical margin of error is almost certainly far less than other variables like the phrasing of the question or what the lead item on the news is.

If you have a 5% spread, then a plus/minus 3% error - which is actually 6%- is larger than your finding. The only way I know to reduce that margin of error is to increase the sample size significantly - but it's been 25 years since I studied this stuff.
09-15-2009 08:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,374
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 184
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #46
RE: White House: "Silent Majorty" support President on Health Care
(09-15-2009 08:08 PM)Claw Wrote:  If you have a 5% spread, then a plus/minus 3% error - which is actually 6%- is larger than your finding. The only way I know to reduce that margin of error is to increase the sample size significantly - but it's been 25 years since I studied this stuff.

I guess in the sciences you're taught the difference between accuracy and precision (I assume your background in statistics is from journalism or politics). Accuracy being how close to the correct answer you are, and Precision being how close your results correlate to one another. You can treat the margin of error in a poll as precision and the accuracy as how well it represents reality when all is said and done.

You'll get better precision by increasing the sample size, but the accuracy won't be improved. The problem with polls is that the accuracy is affected to a large degree by how the questions are phrased. If you're question is "are you going to vote for McCain or Obama", then there's not much way to sway that (except randomly reversing the order of the ballot), so increasing precision makes sense. If your question is "do you like this (theoretical) health plan?" your accuracy can't be assumed to be better than +/- 15-20%, so increasing precision doesn't matter.
09-16-2009 08:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.