(09-02-2009 07:51 AM)GGniner Wrote:  Teaching them at an early age that "Green = Goodness".

We have been getting tought that every day since Reagan was elected in 1980. This whole economy is based on the fact that "Green=Goodness". American money is green is it not.

(09-02-2009 07:34 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  I don't have an issue with Obama talking to students about the importance of education.

What I would take issue with is if during the speech he talks about his policy vision and asks them to support it. I.e. healthcare. "Tell your parents how important healthcare is and that should support its reform" or something to that effect. That's what would piss me off.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Supposedly he is only speaking about the importance of education. There is nothing wrong with that. I do think if he starts talking about political policy that the plug should be pulled on the broadcast.

(09-03-2009 09:54 AM)uhmump95 Wrote:  

(09-02-2009 07:34 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  I don't have an issue with Obama talking to students about the importance of education.
What I would take issue with is if during the speech he talks about his policy vision and asks them to support it. I.e. healthcare. "Tell your parents how important healthcare is and that should support its reform" or something to that effect. That's what would piss me off.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Supposedly he is only speaking about the importance of education. There is nothing wrong with that. I do think if he starts talking about political policy that the plug should be pulled on the broadcast.

I agree also, with a couple of reservations.
One is the possibility of subtle, just-get-up-to-the-line-without-crossing-over types of things. I expect there will be some of these, and I am not comfortable with them, but it's probably inevitable to some extent. I just hope there isn't too much of this.
Two is the reaction of the teachers, who at least in terms of their union leadership, are probably further off the left edge than the president is. I expect some of them will use this to push the indoctrination thing further, and I am not comfortable with that either.

So long as the event (either Obama's part or the teachers' part) stays focused on getting an education, I'm fully supportive.
If the event starts talking about green issues, I'm generally supportive because I support conservation and environmental protection, but I start to get a little bit leary that some political code words may be getting dropped here and there.
If the event starts talking about health care and wealth redistribution (which I'm hoping it won't) then I get very fearful that it's being used as an indoctrination vehicle, and I do not support that.

If you know which of those ways it will go, tell me so I can quit worrying.

All this wailing and gnashing of teeth is quite amusing. What's the board's opinion of Reagan's speech to junior high students via C-Span and the Instructional Education Network back in November '88?
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/sp...11488c.htm

Reading it, the thing that strikes me most is that although he was speaking on the day that "marks the beginning of American Education Week", all he did was a throw a backhanded shout-out to education. Most of the speech is Founding Father and Patriotism and We're #1!; his mention of education is almost a non-sequitur:
"But in pursuing your education, there is one thing I would like to pass along to you. We should always remember that there are the things that change and the things that don't change... The permanent truths which give meaning to our lives don't change... for America to gain greatest benefit from all the exciting new technologies that lie ahead, we will also need to reaffirm our traditional moral values, because these values are the foundation on which everything we do is built. So, yes, I would encourage you to study the math and science that are at the basis of the new technologies. But in a world of change you also need to pay attention to the moral and spiritual values that will stay with you, unchanged, throughout a long lifetime."

To paraphrase: "So, yeah, education's cool and all, but morality/spirituality are where it's at! Oh, and **** anything other than math and science."

He did a pretty good job of sticking to motherhood and apple pie, but I did see him slip into self-congratulating politics once:
"whenever I see foreign leaders, they tell me about their plans for reducing taxes and other economic reforms that they're using, copying what we have done here in our country."

Now that's what's in the body of the speech. In the Q&A, he went way out into the realm political proselytizing: pushing the line-item veto and a balanced-budget amendment, throwing in a little supply-side indoctrination, giving his views on gun bans and background checks and waiting periods, and talking about jobs created during his terms.

I have a feeling Obama's speech will be substantially similar (not in the details of course, but in how "political" it is). I think one difference is he'll probably talk more about and more supportively of education. As to whether hot-button issues come into play, I think that's dependent on whether or not there's a Q&A.

My grandkids will not be seeing the telecast at all. The school at first sent a letter home saying they will leave it up to indiv. teachers. Within hours of that email, they said the parents could sit with their kids at home if they wanted to see it. They left the decision up to the parents.

Who da thunk it? Texan parents deciding whats right for their kids.

ObamaCommie may not have an audience in Texas.

(09-03-2009 09:51 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  My grandkids will not be seeing the telecast at all. The school at first sent a letter home saying they will leave it up to indiv. teachers. Within hours of that email, they said the parents could sit with their kids at home if they wanted to see it. They left the decision up to the parents. Who da thunk it?

ObamaCommie may not have an audience in Texas.

It was announced here in my town that this would not happen at any of the schools...the administration stated that it urged parents to have their kids watch the speech on TV during what will be numerous replays. They chose not to disrupt the school day with this....Bravo

I can not believe that I am applauding a government school.

(09-03-2009 10:01 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-03-2009 09:51 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  My grandkids will not be seeing the telecast at all. The school at first sent a letter home saying they will leave it up to indiv. teachers. Within hours of that email, they said the parents could sit with their kids at home if they wanted to see it. They left the decision up to the parents. Who da thunk it?

ObamaCommie may not have an audience in Texas.

It was announced here in my town that this would not happen at any of the schools...the administration stated that it urged parents to have their kids watch the speech on TV during what will be numerous replays. They chose not to disrupt the school day with this....Bravo

I can not believe that I am applauding a government school.

Not all public school administrators are complete morons or cowards. My HS principal was a good man who didn't take nonsense very well. It was funny to watch him call out people for trying to get away with stuff (like a students attempted walkout during the lead up to the war in Iraq. He didn't let the free public buses stop at the school parking lot and take any of the students to UNC for the bigger "protest" and gave all the students Sat detention for skipping class. Awesome day). Same thing with my uncle who was also a principal at the HS and MS levels. Didn't take and BS, even when they put lots of public pressure on him for banning plain white t-shirts which were being used as gang symbols and resulting in an upswing of gang violence in and around the school. Strange that both worked in NC public school system, though the Chapel Hill School District IS run quite a bit different from the rest of the state.

From my blog post about this:

So, Barack Obama has decided that education is important enough that on Sept. 8, "the president will speak directly to the nation’s children and youth about persisting and succeeding in school. The president will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning," according to Education Secretary Arne Duncan in a letter to school teachers detailing the purpose of the speech. The letter includes links to suggested classroom exercises for teachers before and after the speech.

I've read the letter. I've read the classroom materials. It's pretty straight-forward. It's all about getting students excited and motivated about their education, and about encouraging them to take responsibility for their actions and their futures. It seems just like the kind of message every parent should want their child to hear. And who better to deliver that message than the president of the United States? He is the most powerful man in the free world, and he's the leader of our country, whether you like him or not. As such, he deserves our respect. And, last time I checked, children respecting their elders and their leaders was considered a virtue.

Unless, of course, the president isn't a member of your political party. Then, he's the devil incarnate hell-bent on "indoctrinating" your children to his "socialist agenda." It has nothing to do with simply educating your children.

I thought a major part of education was to teach children to think critically, make informed decisions and learn through knowledge. However, if you are going to deny them access to knowledge, and tell them they can't listen to the president of the United States speak because you don't agree with his message or agenda, and simply keep your children ignorant, how will they learn? Oh yes, I forgot, knowledge is power. The learned tend to be able to make informed decisions, and not blindly follow those who espouse rhetoric based upon fear. I can name five people I work with -- at a four-year public university, no less -- who hate Obama because he's not white. I can name several people with whom I attend church whose racism has been blatantly exposed when they talk about Obama. Racism is simply a product of an uninformed, uneducated individual. It's based upon fear, not knowledge. By denying our children this opportunity, you continue to spread this same fear and deny children the knowledge they need to be our future leaders and decision makers.

The chairman of the Florida Republican Party, Jim Greer, has gone so far as to claim that Obama's speech is meant to infiltrate these children's minds and brainwash them against their parents and against American ideals. Good grief!

My son attends what is supposed to be a high-achieving academic magnet school. Today, the principal felt compelled to send out a robot phone call to parents because of the endless phone calls she was receiving from parents who don't want their children exposed to the president's message next week, telling us we can send a note to our child's teacher if we don't want him or her to participate in this activity. I'm sorry, but that's just ignorance at its highest. I would expect these parents, who are mostly affluent, highly educated individuals, not to be so ignorant and closed-minded. Many of them recently fought hard, alongside me, to see that their children's educational futures weren't denied by an obtuse school board. They claimed they wanted their children to learn in a high-achieving environment that exposed them to challenging ideals, forced them to become critical thinkers, and to learn from the best knowledge that could be provided. I thought they were more enlightened than this.

I guess not.

And a note: Bush the First did this very same thing. The Dems threw a fit. The Republicans defended it. What goes around comes around.

(09-03-2009 11:29 PM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote:  And a note: Bush the First did this very same thing. The Dems threw a fit. The Republicans defended it. What goes around comes around.

Yea, and I'm sure you gave respect to Bush when he was in office. You were cheering when an Iraqi threw his shoes at Bush. How do you say that and keep a straight face? He was hated by scores for doing the same thing Obama is doing/. You let your kids watch that Obama-Nazi.

(09-03-2009 11:35 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-03-2009 11:29 PM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote:  And a note: Bush the First did this very same thing. The Dems threw a fit. The Republicans defended it. What goes around comes around.

Yea, and I'm sure you gave respect to Bush when he was in office. You were cheering when an Iraqi threw his shoes at Bush. How do you say that and keep a straight face?

I don't believe I ever cheered when that happened. I disagreed with most everything Bush the second did as president. However, I still respected the office and the man. Had he wanted to address my son's school while he was president, and even if he wanted to do so today, I would welcome it. I believe in a free and open exchange of ideas. I also believe that exchange should be civil, intelligent and respectful. Sadly, it seems today most people have forgotten all civility and respect for their fellow man. There is no longer any room for open debate and discussion. Just shouting and disdain for anyone whose ideas don't agree with your own. Right now, the Republicans are leading that fight. When they regain power, it will be the Democrats.

The best thing that could happen to this country politically right now would be the rise of a third political party that knocked both the Democrats and Republicans to their knees.

Show me where the left had an exchange of ideas with Bush that was civil, intelligent and respectful. Didn't happen, and you were not complaining back then about the disrespect for the President Bush. Hell, you quit calling him President. . How do you keep a straight face.

(09-03-2009 11:48 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Show me where the left had an exchange of ideas with Bush that was civil, intelligent and respectful. Didn't happen, and you were not complaining back then about the disrespect for the President Bush. Hell, you quit calling him President. . How do you keep a straight face.

When did I quit calling him the president? Show me that.

You know nothing about me. Every response you give just proves my point. There's no room for civility in politics any more. People like you have seen to it.

(09-04-2009 12:00 AM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote:  

(09-03-2009 11:48 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Show me where the left had an exchange of ideas with Bush that was civil, intelligent and respectful. Didn't happen, and you were not complaining back then about the disrespect for the President Bush. Hell, you quit calling him President. . How do you keep a straight face.

When did I quit calling him the president? Show me that.

You know nothing about me. Every response you give just proves my point. There's no room for civility in politics any more. People like you have seen to it.

From the guy who blasted Palin w/ no substance behind his claims?

I believe they call this "projection". (Punctuation intentionally wrong.)

Grammar-Nazi Wrote:I can name five people I work with -- at a four-year public university, no less -- who hate Obama because he's not white. I can name several people with whom I attend church whose racism has been blatantly exposed when they talk about Obama. Racism is simply a product of an uninformed, uneducated individual. It's based upon fear, not knowledge.

(09-03-2009 11:40 PM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote:  I believe in a free and open exchange of ideas. I also believe that exchange should be civil, intelligent and respectful. Sadly, it seems today most people have forgotten all civility and respect for their fellow man. There is no longer any room for open debate and discussion. Just shouting and disdain for anyone whose ideas don't agree with your own.

Here's an idea. Start with yourself. Stop throwing the racism charge at everybody who sees things differantly than you. Racism charges are simply a product of an uninformed, uneducated individual. It's getting real tiring listening to you broken record punk motherf@ckers.

And my civility and respect are reserved for those who deserve it.

You are right, I don't know you. Your idea of a free and open exchange of ideas ends with people who don't agree with you.
Civil, intelligent and respectful, What I do know is that a person who uses Nazi in his name can't talk to anyone, anybody about civility. Nazi, It's offensive. When I see the word Nazi, I think of the 10 million lives lost in Europe at the hands of Hitler, Kristallnacht, Jewish pogrom, the Hitler Youth, Gestapo, SS, you use the word Nazi as a Joke. How civil, intelligent and respectful is that?

(09-03-2009 11:29 PM)Grammar-Nazi Wrote:  From my blog post about this:

I thought a major part of education was to teach children to think critically, make informed decisions and learn through knowledge. However, if you are going to deny them access to knowledge, and tell them they can't listen to the president of the United States speak because you don't agree with his message or agenda, and simply keep your children ignorant, how will they learn?

Please, take your arrogant pseudo-intelluctualism elsewhere.

You can't teach children to think critically by avoiding facts.

Oh yes, I forgot, since you like Obama, he'll only provide facts.

Facts like his healthcare reform is flawed and doomed to fail. Facts like his politics and economics are based on Marxist ideals, all of which are known to be wrong and doomed to failure.

Quote: The learned tend to be able to make informed decisions, and not blindly follow those who espouse rhetoric based upon fear.

FEAR? Seriously?
You mean like fear of climate change?
Fear of private health care?
Fear of the rich?
Fear of economic growth?

The political left is all about fear. Fear that the bogeyman Republicans and those greedy CEO's will steal all your money.

Fear that the oceans will rise and sweep away all the beaches.

Fear that your unborn baby will rob you of your fun time.

Fear that our paternalistic society will oppress you and deny you the career you are entitled to.

Fear that every decision is based on deep seeded racism...

Quote:I can name five people I work with -- at a four-year public university, no less -- who hate Obama because he's not white. I can name several people with whom I attend church whose racism has been blatantly exposed when they talk about Obama. Racism is simply a product of an uninformed, uneducated individual.

It's often actually the gremlin of little minds.

Quote:It's based upon fear, not knowledge. By denying our children this opportunity, you continue to spread this same fear and deny children the knowledge they need to be our future leaders and decision makers.

Nonsense. We have plenty of edcuational materials the foster knowledge for future leaders.

I'll tell you what, I won't be negative, I'll give you an even BETTER alternative. One that fits EVERYTHING you ask for. I'm all about solutions, not strife. Deal?

Let's skip Obama, since he's supposed to be about the "bidness of running the gubment". He's got lots to do.

Instead, we'll have a daily reading from Jack Welch's book Winning. Welch is arguable one of the greatest leaders ever, he has a PhD in Chemical Engineering, he's travelled the world, and GE technology has done wonders for millions.

He's everything you claim to want.

Deal?

Quote:The chairman of the Florida Republican Party, Jim Greer, has gone so far as to claim that Obama's speech is meant to infiltrate these children's minds and brainwash them against their parents and against American ideals. Good grief!

Real critical thinking wouldn't dismiss a though w/ a quote from Peanuts. Maybe you just don't really understand what critical thinking is.

Quote:My son attends what is supposed to be a high-achieving academic magnet school. Today, the principal felt compelled to send out a robot phone call to parents because of the endless phone calls she was receiving from parents who don't want their children exposed to the president's message next week, telling us we can send a note to our child's teacher if we don't want him or her to participate in this activity.

Wow a gov't civil servant responding to her employers. And you respond...

Quote: I'm sorry, but that's just ignorance at its highest.

No. Your comments are very ignorant, however. Seriously, you have no rigorous construct to your arguments, no synthesis of concepts that generate unique ideas, no vetting or validation of any thoughts. It's just gibberish, meaningless rhetoric that poses as reason because adheres to grammatical guidelines.

Quote: I would expect these parents, who are mostly affluent, highly educated individuals, not to be so ignorant and closed-minded.

Suggest you actually read 1984 paying close attention to the term doublespeak.

(09-02-2009 01:06 AM)TomorrowHerd Wrote:  If ANY republican would do this the left would go NUTS!!!

Kinda like that 1988 reagan speech I sat through in High School? Or when Bush did it?

You're so full of **** it's not funny.

Ah, they did go nuts.

(09-03-2009 10:59 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(09-03-2009 10:01 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-03-2009 09:51 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  My grandkids will not be seeing the telecast at all. The school at first sent a letter home saying they will leave it up to indiv. teachers. Within hours of that email, they said the parents could sit with their kids at home if they wanted to see it. They left the decision up to the parents. Who da thunk it?

ObamaCommie may not have an audience in Texas.

It was announced here in my town that this would not happen at any of the schools...the administration stated that it urged parents to have their kids watch the speech on TV during what will be numerous replays. They chose not to disrupt the school day with this....Bravo

I can not believe that I am applauding a government school.

Not all public school administrators are complete morons or cowards. My HS principal was a good man who didn't take nonsense very well. It was funny to watch him call out people for trying to get away with stuff (like a students attempted walkout during the lead up to the war in Iraq. He didn't let the free public buses stop at the school parking lot and take any of the students to UNC for the bigger "protest" and gave all the students Sat detention for skipping class. Awesome day). Same thing with my uncle who was also a principal at the HS and MS levels. Didn't take and BS, even when they put lots of public pressure on him for banning plain white t-shirts which were being used as gang symbols and resulting in an upswing of gang violence in and around the school. Strange that both worked in NC public school system, though the Chapel Hill School District IS run quite a bit different from the rest of the state.

I have no problem with the people that work for this coercive system. My mother taught the 2nd grade for 30years...it is the system that I oppose.