California Sprouts Marijuana 'Green Rush'

Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:10 AM

SAN FRANCISCO -- A drug deal plays out, California-style:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/...4044.story



A conservatively dressed courier drives a company-leased Smart Car to an apartment on a weekday afternoon. Erick Alvaro hands over a white paper bag to his 58-year-old customer, who inspects the bag to ensure that everything he ordered over the phone is there.


An eighth-ounce of organic marijuana buds for treating his seasonal allergies? Check. An eighth of a different pot strain for insomnia? Check. THC-infused lozenges and tea bags? Check and check, with a free herb-laced cookie thrown in as a thank-you gift.


It's a $102 credit card transaction carried out with the practiced efficiency of a home-delivered pizza _ and with just about as much legal scrutiny.


More and more, having premium pot delivered to your door in California is not a crime. It is a legitimate business.


Marijuana has transformed California. Since the state became the first to legalize the drug for medicinal use, the weed the federal government puts in the same category as heroin and cocaine has become a major economic force.


No longer relegated to the underground, pot in California these days props up local economies, mints millionaires and feeds a thriving industry of startups designed to grow, market and distribute the drug.


Based on the quantity of marijuana authorities seized last year, the crop was worth an estimated $17 billion or more, dwarfing any other sector of the state's agricultural economy.


Experts say most of that marijuana is still sold as a recreational drug on the black market. But more recently the plant has put down deep financial roots in highly visible, taxpaying businesses:


Stores that sell high-tech marijuana growing equipment. Pot clubs that pay rent and hire workers. Marijuana themed magazines and food products. Chains of for-profit clinics with doctors who specialize in medical marijuana recommendations.


The plant's prominence does not come without costs, say some critics. Marijuana plantations in remote forests cause severe environmental damage. Indoor grow houses in some towns put rentals beyond the reach of students and young families. Rural counties with declining economies cannot attract new businesses because the available work force is caught up in the pot industry. Authorities link the drug to violent crime in otherwise quiet small towns.


"For those of us who are on the front lines, it's not about pot is bad in itself or drugs are bad," said Meredith Lintott, district attorney in Mendocino County, one of the country's top marijuana-producing regions.


"It's about the negative consequences on children. It's about the negative consequences on the environment."


Still, the sheer scale of the overall pot economy has some lawmakers pushing for broader legalization as a way to shore up the finances of a state that has teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. The state's top tax collector estimates that taxing pot like liquor could bring in more than $1.3 billion annually.


On Tuesday, Oakland will consider a measure to tax the city's four marijuana dispensaries, which the city auditor projects will ring up $17.5 million in sales in 2010. The city faces an $83 million budget shortfall, and expects the marijuana tax to raise $315,000.


Advocates point out that making pot legal would create millions if not billions of dollars more in indirect sales _ the ingredients used to make edible pot products, advertising, tourism and smoking paraphernalia.


With a recent poll showing more than half of Californians supporting legalization, pot advocates believe they will prevail. And they say other states will follow.


Tim Blake is the proprietor of a 145-acre spiritual retreat center which holds an annual marijuana bud-growing contest in the heart of Northern California's pot-growing country.


Politicians, he says, are "going to see the economic benefits, they're going to see the health benefits and they're going to jump on the bandwagon."


___


On a property flanked by vineyards, Mendocino County farmer Jim Hill grows marijuana for up to 20 patients, including himself and his wife. He believes passionately in marijuana's purported ability to treat the symptoms of diseases ranging from cancer to Alzheimer's; he says his wife suffers from a serotonin imbalance, and he uses the drug to treat digestive problems and intestinal cramping.


Hill's plants enjoy careful nurturing in a temperature-controlled greenhouse. On a recent spring day, his college-age son spread bat guano to fertilize two dozen 6-foot-tall plants.


Hill is 45 years old; he says he spent $10,000 to set up the garden. Patients receive their drugs free in exchange for helping with his crop.


"It's kind of like living on an apple orchard," Hill said. "You don't pay for an apple."


Though marijuana is cultivated throughout California, the most prized crops come from the forested mountains and hidden valleys of Mendocino, Humboldt and Trinity counties _ the Emerald Triangle.


The economic impact of so much pot is difficult to gauge. Authorities say the largest grows are run by Mexican drug cartels that simply funnel money from forest-raised crops back into their own bank accounts.


Still, marijuana money from outdoor and indoor plots inevitably flows into local coffers. Marijuana increases residents' retail buying power by about $58 million countywide, according to a Mendocino County report. The county ranks 48th out of 58 counties in median income but, by counting pot proceeds, could jump as high as 18th.


Businesses benefit from mom-and-pop growers who cultivate pot to supplement their incomes and from marijuana plantation workers who descend on the Emerald Triangle from all over the country for the fall harvest. Pot "trimmers" can earn more than $40 per hour.


In Ukiah, the county's largest city, business owners say the extra cash is crucial. "I really don't think we would exist without it," says Nicole Martensen, 37, whose wine and garden shop is stocked with bottles from county vintners.


The skunk-like smell of marijuana hangs over the town of about 11,000 during the October harvest, when cash registers brim with $100 bills. Sometimes the wads of cash spent in Martensen's shop come dusted with pot.


But Ukiah banker Marty Lombardi says existing businesses cannot compete with pot industry wages for workers. Lombardi's bank does not make loans to anyone suspected of trying to fund a pot operation, but he said most growers do not need them.


"I don't think you or I have any sense for how much money is generated," he said.


Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman says medical marijuana operations that follow state and county laws will face no hassles from his department. His deputies left intact 154 marijuana grows they visited last year, he said


"If you're living in the boundaries, I'm not going to mess with you," Allman said.


Which is not to say that there is no legal risk to growing, selling or buying marijuana. Federal laws still apply, and pot dealings not deemed medicinal are considered criminal by the state.


Local, state and federal authorities pulled up 364,000 plants across Mendocino last year. And the state Department of Justice reported more than 16,000 felony arrests and nearly 58,000 misdemeanor arrests for marijuana offenses in 2007 _ the highest numbers in a decade.


Sparky Rose sits in the federal prison in Lompoc, serving a 37-month term. Law enforcement officials insist he is one of many sellers who have used the medical marijuana law as a guise for old-time drug dealing. Rose does not disagree, although he would like to think he helped some legitimate pot patients in the process.


A one-time Web designer, he started out in 2001 making $15 an hour as a "bud tender" working the counter at an Oakland club. Four years later, he was overseeing a dispensary chain with stores in seven cities, 283 employees and sales reaching $5 million a month.


That's not as much as it seems, he says. Much of the money went to pay salaries, to purchase equipment and to buy 200 pounds of marijuana each week.


Rose says he was making $500,000 a year before his 2006 arrest, a sum he considers fair given the chain's volume and the risk he assumed as the company's public face. Before opening a new location, he would meet with local officials and police to get their implicit OK.


"We operated out in the open, and the feds knew who we were and they let us do it for four years, so as time goes on you get this comfortable feeling," he says.


"While I was still in the business, a lot people would ask me, 'I'm thinking about starting a club, what advice do you have?' "And I'd say, 'The biggest warning is sooner or later, you will start to think it's legal.'"


___


Even people accustomed to buying marijuana over the counter are impressed when they visit the Farmacy, a dispensary-***-New Age apothecary with three locations in Los Angeles. Decorated in soft beige and staffed by workers in lab coats, the Venice store sells organic toiletries, essential oils and incense along with 25 types of pot stored in glass jars, including strains such as Beverly Bubba and Third Eye.


Anyone can shop there, but to buy the cannabis-infused gelato, olive oil, soft drinks and other "edibles," customers must show a doctor's recommendation, have the information verified by the doctor's office and obtain a patient identification number for future visits.


During a two-hour span, the dozen or so customers who made a purchase all bought pot products and paid the 9.25 percent state sales tax on top of their purchases. The clubs, which are not supposed to turn a profit, call their transactions "donations."


Allen Siegel is 74; he is dying of cancer and wants to try smoking marijuana to ease his pain without knocking him out like prescription drugs do. So his wife, Ina, brought him to the Farmacy for his first visit as a legal pot patient.


"You go in there and they have so many choices," she says.


California's "green rush" was spurred by a voter-approved law 13 years ago that authorized patients with a doctor's recommendation to possess and cultivate marijuana for personal use. Although a dozen other states have adopted similar laws, California is the only one where privately owned pot shops have flourished.


Los Angeles County alone has more than 400 pot dispensaries and delivery services, nearly twice as many outlets as Amsterdam, the Netherlands capital whose coffee shops have for decades been synonymous with free-market marijuana.


Promoted as a way to shield people with AIDS, cancer and anorexia who use marijuana from prosecution, the 1996 Compassionate Use Act also permitted limited possession for "any other illness for which marijuana provides relief."


The broad language opened the door to doctors willing to recommend pot for nearly any ailment. In a survey of nearly 2,500 patients, longtime Berkeley medical marijuana advocate Dr. Tod Mikuriya found that almost three-quarters of the patients used the drug for pain relief or mental health issues.


Dispensaries began selling marijuana, although they were risking federal charges. Some operators have become less fearful since U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said this year that the Justice Department would not target pot operations following state laws, reducing the risk of random federal raids that existed under the Bush administration.


California's pot dispensaries now have more in common with a corner grocery than a speakeasy. They advertise freely, offering discount coupons and daily specials.


Justin Hartfield, a 25-year-old Web designer and business student, founded WeedMaps.com, where pot clubs and doctors who write medi-pot recommendations list their services and users post reviews. Hartfield says the year-old site brought in $20,000 this month, an amount he expects to double in August.


Hartfield exhibited at THC Expo, a two-day trade show at the Los Angeles Convention Center that attracted an estimated 35,000 attendees in June. There was hydroponic gardening equipment and bong vendors and bikini-clad models wearing leis made of fake marijuana leaves.


Like just about everyone else connected to the cannabis trade, Hartfield has a letter from a doctor that entitles him to buy medical marijuana from a dispensary. But he sees no point in pretending he is treating anything more than his taste for smoking weed.


"It is a joke. It's a legal way for me to get what I used to get on the street," he said.


He recalls telling the doctor who provided the referral that he suffered from insomnia and anxiety, though neither was true. As he signed the paperwork, the doctor "congratulated me like I was getting my degree from Harvard."


___


What would happen if marijuana was legal _ not just for medical uses, but for all uses?


Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, wants the state to tax and regulate all pot as it does alcohol. State Board of Equalization chairwoman Betty Yee, a supporter, projects the law would generate $990 million annually through a $50-per-ounce fee for retailers and $392 million in sales taxes. (The state now collects $18 million each year in taxes on medical marijuana.)


The state would not start collecting taxes on marijuana under Ammiano's bill until the federal government lifts its restrictions on the drug.


That's not enough for pro-pot activists who want Californians to vote next year on a proposal that would allow adults to legally possess up to one ounce of pot and allow cities to sell and tax the drug.


"Local governments are malnourished and in need of revenue badly," said Aaron Smith, state policy director for the Marijuana Policy Project, which advocates legalization. "There's this multibillion-dollar industry that's the elephant in the room that they're not able to tap into."


Lintott, the Mendocino prosecutor, is not convinced that legalization would put an end to the underworld's marijuana operations. She argues that big-time growers would never bother filing tax returns. "Legalizing it isn't going to touch the big money," she says.


But others predict the black-market business model would fall apart.


Large-scale agri-businesses in California's Central Valley would dominate legal marijuana production as they already do bulk wine grapes, advocates argue. Pot prices would fall dramatically, forcing growers to abandon costly clandestine operations that authorities say trash the land and steal scarce water.


And legalization, supporters insist, would save state and local governments billions on police, court and prison costs.


But others survey California in 2009 and say the cannabis future is now. Richard Lee has parlayed a pair of Oakland dispensaries into a mini-empire that includes a marijuana lifestyle magazine, an "adult consumption" club, a starter plant nursery and a three-campus marijuana trade school. Oaksterdam University's main campus is a prominent fixture in revitalized downtown Oakland.


All without legalization.


"It's like here's reality, and here's the law," Lee says. "The culture has gone so far beyond the law, people have gotten used to being able to get quality product. They are not going to go back."

2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

(07-18-2009 01:02 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  California Sprouts Marijuana 'Green Rush'

Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:10 AM

SAN FRANCISCO -- A drug deal plays out, California-style:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/...4044.story



A conservatively dressed courier drives a company-leased Smart Car to an apartment on a weekday afternoon. Erick Alvaro hands over a white paper bag to his 58-year-old customer, who inspects the bag to ensure that everything he ordered over the phone is there.


An eighth-ounce of organic marijuana buds for treating his seasonal allergies? Check. An eighth of a different pot strain for insomnia? Check. THC-infused lozenges and tea bags? Check and check, with a free herb-laced cookie thrown in as a thank-you gift.


It's a $102 credit card transaction carried out with the practiced efficiency of a home-delivered pizza _ and with just about as much legal scrutiny.


More and more, having premium pot delivered to your door in California is not a crime. It is a legitimate business.


Marijuana has transformed California. Since the state became the first to legalize the drug for medicinal use, the weed the federal government puts in the same category as heroin and cocaine has become a major economic force.


No longer relegated to the underground, pot in California these days props up local economies, mints millionaires and feeds a thriving industry of startups designed to grow, market and distribute the drug.


Based on the quantity of marijuana authorities seized last year, the crop was worth an estimated $17 billion or more, dwarfing any other sector of the state's agricultural economy.


Experts say most of that marijuana is still sold as a recreational drug on the black market. But more recently the plant has put down deep financial roots in highly visible, taxpaying businesses:


Stores that sell high-tech marijuana growing equipment. Pot clubs that pay rent and hire workers. Marijuana themed magazines and food products. Chains of for-profit clinics with doctors who specialize in medical marijuana recommendations.


The plant's prominence does not come without costs, say some critics. Marijuana plantations in remote forests cause severe environmental damage. Indoor grow houses in some towns put rentals beyond the reach of students and young families. Rural counties with declining economies cannot attract new businesses because the available work force is caught up in the pot industry. Authorities link the drug to violent crime in otherwise quiet small towns.


"For those of us who are on the front lines, it's not about pot is bad in itself or drugs are bad," said Meredith Lintott, district attorney in Mendocino County, one of the country's top marijuana-producing regions.


"It's about the negative consequences on children. It's about the negative consequences on the environment."


Still, the sheer scale of the overall pot economy has some lawmakers pushing for broader legalization as a way to shore up the finances of a state that has teetered on the edge of bankruptcy. The state's top tax collector estimates that taxing pot like liquor could bring in more than $1.3 billion annually.


On Tuesday, Oakland will consider a measure to tax the city's four marijuana dispensaries, which the city auditor projects will ring up $17.5 million in sales in 2010. The city faces an $83 million budget shortfall, and expects the marijuana tax to raise $315,000.


Advocates point out that making pot legal would create millions if not billions of dollars more in indirect sales _ the ingredients used to make edible pot products, advertising, tourism and smoking paraphernalia.


With a recent poll showing more than half of Californians supporting legalization, pot advocates believe they will prevail. And they say other states will follow.


Tim Blake is the proprietor of a 145-acre spiritual retreat center which holds an annual marijuana bud-growing contest in the heart of Northern California's pot-growing country.


Politicians, he says, are "going to see the economic benefits, they're going to see the health benefits and they're going to jump on the bandwagon."


___


On a property flanked by vineyards, Mendocino County farmer Jim Hill grows marijuana for up to 20 patients, including himself and his wife. He believes passionately in marijuana's purported ability to treat the symptoms of diseases ranging from cancer to Alzheimer's; he says his wife suffers from a serotonin imbalance, and he uses the drug to treat digestive problems and intestinal cramping.


Hill's plants enjoy careful nurturing in a temperature-controlled greenhouse. On a recent spring day, his college-age son spread bat guano to fertilize two dozen 6-foot-tall plants.


Hill is 45 years old; he says he spent $10,000 to set up the garden. Patients receive their drugs free in exchange for helping with his crop.


"It's kind of like living on an apple orchard," Hill said. "You don't pay for an apple."


Though marijuana is cultivated throughout California, the most prized crops come from the forested mountains and hidden valleys of Mendocino, Humboldt and Trinity counties _ the Emerald Triangle.


The economic impact of so much pot is difficult to gauge. Authorities say the largest grows are run by Mexican drug cartels that simply funnel money from forest-raised crops back into their own bank accounts.


Still, marijuana money from outdoor and indoor plots inevitably flows into local coffers. Marijuana increases residents' retail buying power by about $58 million countywide, according to a Mendocino County report. The county ranks 48th out of 58 counties in median income but, by counting pot proceeds, could jump as high as 18th.


Businesses benefit from mom-and-pop growers who cultivate pot to supplement their incomes and from marijuana plantation workers who descend on the Emerald Triangle from all over the country for the fall harvest. Pot "trimmers" can earn more than $40 per hour.


In Ukiah, the county's largest city, business owners say the extra cash is crucial. "I really don't think we would exist without it," says Nicole Martensen, 37, whose wine and garden shop is stocked with bottles from county vintners.


The skunk-like smell of marijuana hangs over the town of about 11,000 during the October harvest, when cash registers brim with $100 bills. Sometimes the wads of cash spent in Martensen's shop come dusted with pot.


But Ukiah banker Marty Lombardi says existing businesses cannot compete with pot industry wages for workers. Lombardi's bank does not make loans to anyone suspected of trying to fund a pot operation, but he said most growers do not need them.


"I don't think you or I have any sense for how much money is generated," he said.


Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman says medical marijuana operations that follow state and county laws will face no hassles from his department. His deputies left intact 154 marijuana grows they visited last year, he said


"If you're living in the boundaries, I'm not going to mess with you," Allman said.


Which is not to say that there is no legal risk to growing, selling or buying marijuana. Federal laws still apply, and pot dealings not deemed medicinal are considered criminal by the state.


Local, state and federal authorities pulled up 364,000 plants across Mendocino last year. And the state Department of Justice reported more than 16,000 felony arrests and nearly 58,000 misdemeanor arrests for marijuana offenses in 2007 _ the highest numbers in a decade.


Sparky Rose sits in the federal prison in Lompoc, serving a 37-month term. Law enforcement officials insist he is one of many sellers who have used the medical marijuana law as a guise for old-time drug dealing. Rose does not disagree, although he would like to think he helped some legitimate pot patients in the process.


A one-time Web designer, he started out in 2001 making $15 an hour as a "bud tender" working the counter at an Oakland club. Four years later, he was overseeing a dispensary chain with stores in seven cities, 283 employees and sales reaching $5 million a month.


That's not as much as it seems, he says. Much of the money went to pay salaries, to purchase equipment and to buy 200 pounds of marijuana each week.


Rose says he was making $500,000 a year before his 2006 arrest, a sum he considers fair given the chain's volume and the risk he assumed as the company's public face. Before opening a new location, he would meet with local officials and police to get their implicit OK.


"We operated out in the open, and the feds knew who we were and they let us do it for four years, so as time goes on you get this comfortable feeling," he says.


"While I was still in the business, a lot people would ask me, 'I'm thinking about starting a club, what advice do you have?' "And I'd say, 'The biggest warning is sooner or later, you will start to think it's legal.'"


___


Even people accustomed to buying marijuana over the counter are impressed when they visit the Farmacy, a dispensary-***-New Age apothecary with three locations in Los Angeles. Decorated in soft beige and staffed by workers in lab coats, the Venice store sells organic toiletries, essential oils and incense along with 25 types of pot stored in glass jars, including strains such as Beverly Bubba and Third Eye.


Anyone can shop there, but to buy the cannabis-infused gelato, olive oil, soft drinks and other "edibles," customers must show a doctor's recommendation, have the information verified by the doctor's office and obtain a patient identification number for future visits.


During a two-hour span, the dozen or so customers who made a purchase all bought pot products and paid the 9.25 percent state sales tax on top of their purchases. The clubs, which are not supposed to turn a profit, call their transactions "donations."


Allen Siegel is 74; he is dying of cancer and wants to try smoking marijuana to ease his pain without knocking him out like prescription drugs do. So his wife, Ina, brought him to the Farmacy for his first visit as a legal pot patient.


"You go in there and they have so many choices," she says.


California's "green rush" was spurred by a voter-approved law 13 years ago that authorized patients with a doctor's recommendation to possess and cultivate marijuana for personal use. Although a dozen other states have adopted similar laws, California is the only one where privately owned pot shops have flourished.


Los Angeles County alone has more than 400 pot dispensaries and delivery services, nearly twice as many outlets as Amsterdam, the Netherlands capital whose coffee shops have for decades been synonymous with free-market marijuana.


Promoted as a way to shield people with AIDS, cancer and anorexia who use marijuana from prosecution, the 1996 Compassionate Use Act also permitted limited possession for "any other illness for which marijuana provides relief."


The broad language opened the door to doctors willing to recommend pot for nearly any ailment. In a survey of nearly 2,500 patients, longtime Berkeley medical marijuana advocate Dr. Tod Mikuriya found that almost three-quarters of the patients used the drug for pain relief or mental health issues.


Dispensaries began selling marijuana, although they were risking federal charges. Some operators have become less fearful since U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said this year that the Justice Department would not target pot operations following state laws, reducing the risk of random federal raids that existed under the Bush administration.


California's pot dispensaries now have more in common with a corner grocery than a speakeasy. They advertise freely, offering discount coupons and daily specials.


Justin Hartfield, a 25-year-old Web designer and business student, founded WeedMaps.com, where pot clubs and doctors who write medi-pot recommendations list their services and users post reviews. Hartfield says the year-old site brought in $20,000 this month, an amount he expects to double in August.


Hartfield exhibited at THC Expo, a two-day trade show at the Los Angeles Convention Center that attracted an estimated 35,000 attendees in June. There was hydroponic gardening equipment and bong vendors and bikini-clad models wearing leis made of fake marijuana leaves.


Like just about everyone else connected to the cannabis trade, Hartfield has a letter from a doctor that entitles him to buy medical marijuana from a dispensary. But he sees no point in pretending he is treating anything more than his taste for smoking weed.


"It is a joke. It's a legal way for me to get what I used to get on the street," he said.


He recalls telling the doctor who provided the referral that he suffered from insomnia and anxiety, though neither was true. As he signed the paperwork, the doctor "congratulated me like I was getting my degree from Harvard."


___


What would happen if marijuana was legal _ not just for medical uses, but for all uses?


Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, wants the state to tax and regulate all pot as it does alcohol. State Board of Equalization chairwoman Betty Yee, a supporter, projects the law would generate $990 million annually through a $50-per-ounce fee for retailers and $392 million in sales taxes. (The state now collects $18 million each year in taxes on medical marijuana.)


The state would not start collecting taxes on marijuana under Ammiano's bill until the federal government lifts its restrictions on the drug.


That's not enough for pro-pot activists who want Californians to vote next year on a proposal that would allow adults to legally possess up to one ounce of pot and allow cities to sell and tax the drug.


"Local governments are malnourished and in need of revenue badly," said Aaron Smith, state policy director for the Marijuana Policy Project, which advocates legalization. "There's this multibillion-dollar industry that's the elephant in the room that they're not able to tap into."


Lintott, the Mendocino prosecutor, is not convinced that legalization would put an end to the underworld's marijuana operations. She argues that big-time growers would never bother filing tax returns. "Legalizing it isn't going to touch the big money," she says.


But others predict the black-market business model would fall apart.


Large-scale agri-businesses in California's Central Valley would dominate legal marijuana production as they already do bulk wine grapes, advocates argue. Pot prices would fall dramatically, forcing growers to abandon costly clandestine operations that authorities say trash the land and steal scarce water.


And legalization, supporters insist, would save state and local governments billions on police, court and prison costs.


But others survey California in 2009 and say the cannabis future is now. Richard Lee has parlayed a pair of Oakland dispensaries into a mini-empire that includes a marijuana lifestyle magazine, an "adult consumption" club, a starter plant nursery and a three-campus marijuana trade school. Oaksterdam University's main campus is a prominent fixture in revitalized downtown Oakland.


All without legalization.


"It's like here's reality, and here's the law," Lee says. "The culture has gone so far beyond the law, people have gotten used to being able to get quality product. They are not going to go back."

2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

No comment SOAF? or just trolling?

Today pot. Tomorrow???

.




Pot is NOT "Green" enough for the Liberal's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just 'Legalize Pot' Nation Wide, it will take care of Crap & Tax along with "Obamacare" ALL ON IT's OWN !!!!!

You CAN NOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP .....




.

Trip, can you imagine the number of over weight people we'll have due to the mid-night munchie problem?

(07-18-2009 07:02 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Trip, can you imagine the number of over weight people we'll have due to the mid-night munchie problem?

Heck yeah since we all won't really have to struggle at work any more because "Cap and Pot" with be paying for ALL OUR NEEDS ...

I freggin love this Thread man !!!!



.

My opinion is well known. I worry about the children, the under 21 group. Marijuana is known to diminish ambition and drive. It distorts reality and causes mental incapacity. Marijuana today is 100 times more powerful than in the '70s and is a cause of great concern, just look at most of the mindless obamalites.

Employers will be able to legally prevent the stoner's from working.

(07-18-2009 07:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  My opinion is well known. I worry about the children, the under 21 group. Marijuana is known to diminish ambition and drive. It distorts reality and causes mental incapacity.

Marijuana today is 100 times more powerful than in the '70s and is a cause of great concern, just look at most of the mindless obamalites.

Employers will be able to legally prevent the stoner's from working.

People who toked back in the day and haven't since the 60's or 70's, don't really realize this True and Very Honest Fact.

The badest assed weed of my era is like mowing your lawn, letting it dry, and smoking it when compared to today's Super Hooch.

And Fo, I know you were talking about not ever hearing about Over Doses or Deaths "Directly Related to the Use of Marijuana", but I have read where '2' Separate Coroners ruled on '2' Separate Deaths of 18'ish to 30'ish age frame British Citizens, that their "Deaths were Consistent with Marijuana Over Dose or Marijuana Toxicity". And made a point to relate the Gigantic Strength Difference in today's "Boutique Marijuana" versus the Old Home Grown Rag Weed.

Now I have chewed up the Internet trying to find those Articles or ones pointing to them and I freggin can not find them.

If you can, trust me that I did read this and it was not on some BS Site, but were real news outlets. (at least I remember them as being Reputable)

I haven't tried Snopes.com on this in a while, but I swear I read it, so if it is a lie, some people in Britain reported it on reputable news outlets.

.

Trip, I have had a good number of marijuana busts, as have you I suspect. I firmly believe in stopping it from coming into our country; but I also feel that we shouldn't keep it illegal for recreational use. Right now there is a War on Drugs that is beating our ass right now and we have no way of winning it.

(07-18-2009 09:22 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Trip, I have had a good number of marijuana busts, as have you I suspect. I firmly believe in stopping it from coming into our country; but I also feel that we shouldn't keep it illegal for recreational use. Right now there is a War on Drugs that is beating our ass right now and we have no way of winning it.

Yes, the Controls and Schedules we use to Rate Drugs is a Necessary Tool in "Trying to Fight this War".

We have to keep some semblance of control and that means not Legalizing just to garner Tax Dollars.

Oh I can see how Sweet this all sounds on Paper, but put into Application, it will be a Holy Nightmare even if it does raise Tax Revenues.

Marijuana WAS once this 'Kinda Sorta' harmless drug about 40 years ago, but now, the stuff is being grown under a Microscope and it is powerful.

You know, this is one of those almost Damned if you do or Damned if you don't situations that always seems to just end us up on the Damned List.

.

(07-18-2009 07:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  My opinion is well known. I worry about the children, the under 21 group. Marijuana is known to diminish ambition and drive. It distorts reality and causes mental incapacity. Marijuana today is 100 times more powerful than in the '70s and is a cause of great concern, just look at most of the mindless obamalites.

Employers will be able to legally prevent the stoner's from working.

OMG!!!!! the sky is falling!!!

I never really understood the fascination with pot. I guess its just not for me....I'd rather just have a beer. If it were up to me, I suppose I would legalize it.

Why is alcohol legal then?

A friend of mine smoked before class, and smoked after class. Smoked before a test, and smoked after the test. Smoked before studying, and after. Straight A student, in a very tough major. I, on the other hand, wasn't stupid enough to try that.

(07-19-2009 06:01 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Why is alcohol legal then?

Arbitrary laws concerning substances....People don't die from cannabis...People die from alcohol. Go figure.

(07-19-2009 08:14 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  People don't die from cannabis

I understand what you're saying - no one died from a bong hit. But how many people die in drug turf wars here and in Mexico? I also know you well enough to think that your response would be "if pot was legal they wouldn't be killing each other." But it ain't and they do.

Anyway, I believe pot to be a gateway drug. Don't have proof, don't have statistics, ain't got squat, but that's what I believe.

Also, if a guy inhales a few doobers on a Friday night and gets into an accident at work on Monday the almost required drug test many employers use in these situations will show pot was in his system and he'll lose his job. Making it legal still doesn't offset the reasons why employers don't want their employees smoking it.

And if you legalize pot in California, what is the NFL going to do to a player who gets high in California? Will they fine/suspend him for usig a legal substance?

Finally, I'm sure you all remember this tidbit from your parents: They call it dope for a reason."

I should just put it like this: possession of small amounts shouldn't be an offense that qualifies for jailing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in...ted_States

What would be the age of consent for cannabis, etc..... Does this add to impaired driving concerns etc.....

A lot of questions for sure. I guess I err on the side of if it is illegal, fine by me. If it is made legal, fine by me.

If it is legal, I'd try to grow some in my garden like I grow tommytoes and jalapanoes..... I'd sell it to the local neighborhood hippy (who is also my USPS Mailman, haha!) and post it for sale on Craigslist, like I do with my banana pepper mustard.

(07-20-2009 02:30 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What would be the age of consent for cannabis, etc.....

Does this add to impaired driving concerns etc.....

In a quick word, Yes.

Anything you ingest, no matter how it is ingested, is part of "Driving Under the Influence".

This applies to Prescription Meds as well as the most Notorious of Illegal Drugs and Alcohol Ingestion.

So you see, even your Legal Rx Drugs do not make you safe from a DUI if you have an Automobile Accident and there is much property damage or human injury, not only your own, but where another's Injury or Death are involved.

AND even with your own death, where you strike another vehicle and YOU also die, we would need a Tox Screen on you at Autopsy all the same, so as to determine if you were Intoxicated and at what level and with what Substance(s).

OK, you get the picture, to truly explain it all, I would need a lot more space.

But a resounding YES to Ingested Substances in DUI Cases .... even Ingesting High Sugar Substances for a Diabetic or a Diabetic that has not taken their Insulin properly can be DUI since they KNOW this causes them to become 'Intoxicated' and in some cases, unfit to Drive. They may not have had a drink of an 'Alcoholic Beverage' in 30 years, but they will mimic a '2' Times over the Legal Limit Drunk any day.

And did you know that "Elevator Operators" can be charged with DUI as well .... no BS. And that Elevator Repairmen on their way to a "Stuck Elevator Call", has all the same Emergency Vehicle Traffic Rights as Police and Fire Units. Weird World.

So if you are taking the Police Exam and that question pops up, say yes to Elevator Repairmen having Emergency Vehicle Rights AND U.S. Postal Carriers have Full Right-of-way-Use of the Highways and Streets and trump you all day long.

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