(07-17-2009 11:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Lasik's should be beholden to the same regulations as any other medical procedure I would think. To me the biggest problem is the insurance companies. That's why I put the door ding scenario up top. Think a new car costs 14 grand. Get the car's front 1/4 panel replaced and it's a 4,000 dollar bill.

Nope, outside of a very FEW medical conditions any type of refractive eye surgery is considered "cosmetic surgery" and isn't covered by insurance.

All the clinics that do it around here are more than happy to set it up on financing through GE Money Bank.

(07-18-2009 08:07 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  That's why our government should study front to back how Wal-Mart is offering healthcare and seek to promote it.

Say what?

Quote: "You can't create a team spirit when the situation is so one-sided, when management gets so much and workers get so little of the pie." - Sam Walton

In May 2006, Wal-Mart Watch issued A Handshake With Sam and called on Wal-Mart to set a national example by ensuring that all employees – salaried, hourly, full-time and part-time - have quality affordable health insurance that fully covers the employee and their children…Wal-Mart will actively promote full-time employment for its employees and discourage part-time hiring.”
I. Background on Wal-Mart Health Insurance Coverage
II. State Studies of Wal-Mart Workers on Public Assistance
III. Rhetoric vs. Reality: The Truth About Wal-Mart's Health Insurance
IV. Key Quotes From The Secret Wal-Mart Memo

Who pays for Wal-Mart workers' health care? Wal-Mart, right? No, we all do.

Despite Wal-Mart's mammoth profits, the company actually burdens us -- taxpayers -- with its workers' health care costs. In a disturbing nationwide trend, more state studies are revealing that Wal-Mart employees are the top recipients of taxpayer-paid health care. The scope of this corporate failure is massive: Wal-Mart is the largest private employer in the United States, with over 1.3 million associates, yet they fail to give health insurance to 54 percent of its employees.

"So here's how it works: Wal-Mart offers insurance, but aggressively shifts the cost onto its employees. The low-wage workers then pass up the unaffordable coverage and turn to the states. If this isn't exactly company policy, it is at least company philosophy. CEO Lee Scott, at the company's recent ''summit'' for the media, even described it. He said some state health programs are 'so lucrative that, in fact, it's hard to be competitive with them and certainly extraordinarily expensive to be competitive with them.'"
Editorial, Miami Herald 6/11/05

Quote:Wal-Mart and Health Care

Wal-Mart's Health Care Plan Fails to Cover Over 775,000 Employees

* Wal-Mart reported in January 2006 that its health insurance only covers 43% of their employees. Wal-Mart has approximately 1.39 million US employees. [http://www.walmartfacts.com/docs/1625_jan2006healthcarebackgrounders_576890240.pdf]

Wal-Mart's Health Insurance Falls Far Short of Other Large Companies

* On average for 2005, large companies (200 or more workers) cover approximately 66% of their employees. If Wal-Mart was to reach the average coverage rate, Wal-Mart should be covering an additional 318,000 employees [Kaiser Family Foundation, 2005 and http://www.walmartfacts.com/docs/1625_ja...0240.pdf].

Wal-Mart's Health Care Eligibility is Restrictive

* Part-timers—anybody below 34 hours a week — must wait 1 year before they can enroll. Moreover, spouses of part-time employees are ineligible for family health care coverage for 2006. [Wal-Mart Stores, "My Benefits, New Peak Time Benefits Making a Difference For You," 2006]

* Full-time hourly employees must wait 180 days (approximately 6 months) before being able to enroll in Wal-Mart's health insurance plan. Managers have no waiting period. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide]

* Nationally, the average wait time for new employees to become eligible is 1.7 months. For the retail industry it is 3.0 months. [Kaiser Family Foundation & Health Research and Educational Trust, 2005]

All of Wal-Mart's Health Plans Are Too Costly for Its Workers to Use

* Since the average full-time Wal-Mart employee earned $17,114 in 2005, he or she would have to spend between 7 and 25 percent of his or her income just to cover the premiums and medical deductibles, if electing for single coverage. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide and UFCW analysis]

* The average full-time employee electing for family coverage would have to spend between 22 and 40 percent of his or her income just to cover the premiums and medical deductibles. These costs do not include other health-related expenses such as medical co-pays, prescription coverage, emergency room deductibles, and ambulance deductibles. [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide and UFCW Analysis].

* Wal-Mart trumps the affordability of its new health care plan. According to Wal-Mart, "In January [2006], ...Coverage will be available for as little as $22 per month for individuals" [www.walmartfacts.com]

What Wal-Mart's website leaves out: Coverage is affordable, but using it will bankrupt many employees. Wal-Mart's most affordable plan for 2006 includes a $1,000 deductible for single coverage and a $3,000 deductible for family coverage ($1,000 deductible per person covered up to $3,000). [Wal-Mart 2006 Associate Guide]

Wal-Mart Admits Public Health Care is a "Better Value"

* President and CEO Lee Scott said in 2005, "In some of our states, the public program may actually be a better value - with relatively high income limits to qualify, and low premiums." [Transcript Lee Scott Speech 4/5/05]

Wal-Mart's Health Care is Getting Costlier

* Between 2000-2005, the cost of premiums rose 169 percent for single coverage and 117 percent for family coverage. [UFCW analysis of annual Wal-Mart Associate Guides].

* In comparison, premiums for family coverage in the U.S. have increased only by 59%, from 2000-2005. [Employer Health Benefits: 2004 Annual Survey, Kaiser Family Foundation & Health Research and Educational Trust, 2004]

* In 2004, Wal-Mart employees, in total, paid approximately 41% of the plan costs [Wal-Mart IRS 5500 Filings, 2005].

* Nationally for 2004 on average employees paid for only 16% of single coverage costs and 28% of family coverage costs [Kaiser Family Foundation, 2005].

Wal-Mart Covers Less of the Health Care Costs Compared to Its Competitors

* In a state analysis, the Massachusetts Department of Health and Human Services found that in 2003, Wal-Mart covered only 52% of total health care premium costs compared to K-Mart which covered 66%, Target which covered 68%, and Sears which covered 80% ["Employers Who Have 50 or More Employees Using Public Health Assistance," Division of Health Care Finance and Policy, 2/2005]

Wal-Mart's Spending Falls Below Industry Standards

* Wal-Mart's spending on health care for its employees falls well below industry and national employer averages. In 2002, as reported in the Wall Street Journal, Wal-Mart spent an average of $3,500 per employee. By comparison, the average spending per employee in the wholesale/retailing sector was $4,800. For U.S. employers in general, the average was $5,600 per employee, Therefore, Wal-Mart's average spending on health benefits for each covered employee was 27% less than the industry average and 37% less than the national average. [Bernard Wysocki, Jr. and Ann Zimmerman, "Wal-Mart Cost-Cutting Finds a Big Target in Health Benefits," Wall Street Journal September 30, 2003 p1]

Wal-Mart Only Spends 77 Cents an Hour Per Employee for Health Benefits

* In 2004, Wal-Mart spent $1.5 billion on its health insurance. This amounts to an employer contribution of around only $0.77 an hour per employee. This accounts for approximately a half-percent of Wal-Mart's $285 billion in sales in 2004. [Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005, Wal-Mart Annual Report, 2005].

Wal-Mart Increased Advertising More Than Health Care

* In 2004, Wal-Mart spent nearly the same amount on advertising as it did on health insurance. In 2004, Wal-Mart reports that it spent $1.5 billion on health care benefits and $1.4 billion in advertising. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005, Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005]

* Between 2003 and 2004, Wal-Mart increased its advertising budget by $434 million, only increasing its spending on employee health care by $100 million. That means Wal-Mart increased its spending on advertising by 45 percent while only increasing its spending on employee health care by 7 percent. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005, Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005]

* In fact, Wal-Mart has consistently increased spending on advertising more than its spending on employee health care. Between 2002 and 2003, Wal-Mart put more new funds into advertising than into health care. Wal-Mart increased spending on advertising by $290 million, while only increasing health care spending by $215 million for the same period. (note: this also occurred in 1995-96, 1997-98,1998-1999). [Wal-Mart Annual Reports and 5500 Filings]

One Out of Six Wal-Mart Employees Has No Health Care Coverage At All

* This is more than double the national percentage for large firms (firms with over 100 employees). In fact, we estimate that Wal-Mart accounted in 2005 for more than 1 out of every 40 uninsured workers who are employed at a large firm. [Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart Internal Memo, 2005; Wal-Mart Annual Report; "Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance Coverage: Sponsorship, Eligibility, and Participation Patterns in 2001," Bowen Garrett, Ph.D., released by the Kaiser Family Foundation September 2004].

Costs to Taxpayers

Your tax dollars pay for Wal-Mart's greed

* The estimated total amount of federal assistance for which Wal-Mart employees were eligible in 2004 was $2.5 billion. [The Hidden Price We All Pay For Wal-Mart, A Report By The Democratic Staff Of The Committee On Education And The Workforce, 2/16/04]

* One 200-employee Wal-Mart store may cost federal taxpayers $420,750 per year. This cost comes from the following, on average:

o $36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.

o $42,000 a year for low-income housing assistance.

o $125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families.

o $100,000 a year for the additional expenses for programs for students.

o $108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children's health insurance programs (S-CHIP)

o $9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance.

[The Hidden Price We All Pay For Wal-Mart, A Report By The Democratic Staff Of The Committee On Education And The Workforce, 2/16/04]

Health care subsidies compared to executive compensation

* Excluding his salary of $1.2 million, in 2004 Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott made around $22 million in bonuses, stock awards, and stock options in 2004.

* This $22 million could reimburse taxpayers in 3 states where Wal-Mart topped the list of users of state-sponsored health care programs, covering more than 15,000 Wal-Mart employees and dependents. [Wal-Mart Proxy Statement and News Articles GA, CT, AL].

(07-18-2009 08:54 AM)Artifice Wrote:  Say what?

I'm not talking about employee benefits, I'm talking business model. I should have clarified that so as to save you a ton of cut and paste time.

Wal-Mart's approach to healthcare, by offering 90 day supplies of generic perscription drugs and in-store well clinics, is a sound business model for national healthcare. You can buy a 90 day supply of generic perscription drugs for like $10. My co-pay for my insurance is $15. Go in to one of their clinics and it's like $45 for the visit. My co-pay is $25, and that's after paying for the insurance itself.

Wal-Mart doing this accomplishes what the government has been unwilling, or unable, to do. Spur competition. Target, CVS and Caremark have all started the same services. You take the market share all these private companies represent and insurance companies, drug companies, etc. have to bring down costs. They'll have no choice. Wal-Mart also mandates that all patients they treat have their records maintained electronically. Huge cost reduction.

(07-18-2009 06:11 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  His behavior was uncalled for but it doesn't surprise me. Not saying that he's an awful person all of the time but no one here can deny that he doesn't, 100% of the time, come off as a douchebag. In fact, I think that was mentioned in another thread.

For WAY over Half My Life I have had the Power and Authority over others, be it in the Military or Elsewhere to the degree I had the Legal Power of Life and Death over them.

Sooooo .... I now move into the Computer Technologies Sector of things Full Time and become a Supervisor of 25+ People that now need pampering like babies.

My jobs either put me in a Military Style Ranking Structure with a Chain of Command or I owned the Company and was the Boss - so not much wiggle room on Authority there.

So now I get into the "Mainstream Civilian Workplace" where every one had a Problem and an Issue and they all need a Shoulder to Cry on and I just ain't the guy for it.

In team meetings I sometimes have to Drop Back Into that Harsh Authoritarian Role and then I have 10 People asking me why I am hollering at them ...... ????

I never Hollered, I used a Deep, Direct, and Higher Decibel Voice than the Spoiled 25 GROWN Children who were all trying to talk over me. It shut them up and got their attention.

All Beck was doing was trying to talk over this Welfare Wanting Fool's Ranting with some sort of Authority so he could get HER under Control.

Let us REAP (as Grim Reaper) Obamacare and then find out your Kidney's have died on you .... let us see how long you wait for a Transplant even though you have a Child that is a Donor Match OR BETTER YET, travel to Canada, Cuba, France, Chile, Britain and let this Screaming Idiot of a Woman get her Kidney's FIXED in a "Timely Fashion There" ... - Yeah RIGHT.

A "Stumped Toe" sure, quick service, dead Kidney's, well we will see you at your Funeral.

And YES, there are many times you just have to go off on people because you have had enough of Peoples Blatant Stupidity, Blind Slobbering Worship, and Fiscal/Financial/Tax Ignorance.

.

(07-18-2009 09:01 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  I'm not talking about employee benefits, I'm talking business model. I should have clarified that so as to save you a ton of cut and paste time.

But, as we both know, I so enjoy it

Quote:Wal-Mart's approach to healthcare, by offering 90 day supplies of generic perscription drugs and in-store well clinics, is a sound business model for national healthcare. You can buy a 90 day supply of generic perscription drugs for like $10. My co-pay for my insurance is $15. Go in to one of their clinics and it's like $45 for the visit. My co-pay is $25, and that's after paying for the insurance itself.

A couple of things:

1. A prescription drug plan /= a national healthcare plan.

2. Your model for cheapness is for a huge company to throw its weight around and dictate the market. Once the competition is eliminated, (i.e. their same model to loss lead their way into any market until they grind the competition out of existence) is gone, and they become a monopoly supplier. But on a more abstract level - its another group of people making you decisions for you. You think the bureaucracy at Wal-Mart is any better? See the abuses above. There's pages more of non-healthcare abuses.

3. The reason that prescription drugs are so expensive in the U.S. is the free market. Because we do not regulate it, Big Pharm does two anti-competitive things to ensure its domestic profits: 1) They set prices here, just in the U.S., to cover their R&D and whatever profit mark they want to make. I can, and have, bought my allergy meds for pennies on the dollar in Canada, Australia, even Hong Kong. Why do they gouge U.S. citizens to cover their costs, but charge much less, and sell OTC, for the exact same drugs abroad?

Because of 2) Lobbyists - The Pharm lobby machine is a powerhouse of greed and outright purchasing of law/policy. They literally write the laws that keep them in their perch of power in this country. If the lobbysists were banned, and they were forced to really compete, drug prices across the board would drop the way U.S. manufacturing wages have cratered, and the costs would rise around the rest of the globe to offset our citizen/taxpayer subsidy of these companies.

This all goes back to the b.s. that is the modern spin on so called free markets - Adam Smith never envisioned multinationals, which are virtually indistinguishable in practical application, to the evil GovCo. What he envisioned was a bunch of small localized competition to keep things honest on a local level where decision making accountability included having to look the people you were screwing in the eye on a daily basis as you walked down the street. That's real competition - local pricing and service competition, with the moral/ethical kick in the pants of having to deal with your true neighbors and their ability to shut you down if you are an unscrupulous bastard. I can get behind that idea of a free market. Not this twisted mega-oligopoly-"too big to fail" bastardization we have now that the legions of average joe Libertarian and Republican chest thumpers stupidly support to their own detriment.

Oh yeah, and if it wasn't obvious - this also applies to all of these InsurCo's.

(07-18-2009 09:11 AM)Tripster Wrote:  All Beck was doing was trying to talk over this Welfare Wanting Fool's Ranting with some sort of Authority so he could get HER under Control.

Republican Partisan Spin.txt

Beck was screaming like a ******* douchebag. It was never warranted or echoed by his "adversary". He just lost control because he is a loudmouth, self aggrandized asshat.

(07-18-2009 09:22 AM)Artifice Wrote:  

(07-18-2009 09:11 AM)Tripster Wrote:  All Beck was doing was trying to talk over this Welfare Wanting Fool's Ranting with some sort of Authority so he could get HER under Control.

Republican Partisan Spin.txt

Beck was screaming like a ******* douchebag. It was never warranted or echoed by his "adversary". He just lost control because he is a loudmouth, self aggrandized asshat.

Like I tried to say a bit more eloquently in my Original Reply and I will say it Straight Up Now .....

"Beck got Pissed Off at this Oxygen Thief of a Woman and he Went Off On Her"

I don't deny he was Rabid, but I don't blame him either.

And the "Funny Thing Is", it is HIS Show ..... but his actions don't fit into the 1st Amendment Killing Piece of Legislation called the "Fairness Doctrine".

.

(07-18-2009 09:19 AM)Artifice Wrote:  1. A prescription drug plan /= a national healthcare plan.

Never said it did. It's a component of one. A plan that is created by competition in the private market.

Quote:2. Your model for for cheapness is for a huge company to throw its weight around and dictate the market. Once the competition is eliminated, (i.e. their same model to loss lead their way into any market until they grind the competition out of existence) is gone, and they become a monopoly supplier. But on a more abstract level - its another group of people making you decisions for you. You think the bureaucracy at Wal-Mart is any better? See the abuses above. There's pages more of non-healthcare abuses.

First, Wal-Mart doing this has created exactly the opposite. Target, CVS, CareMark have all started similar programs. All those have existed as businesses for a long time with Wal-Mart. There is nothing to suggest adding healthcare to their business model will change that.

Second, the doctor's in the clinics are making the decisions, not a Wal-Mart bureaucracy. I'm not saying we should go to Wal-Mart for Chemo. But for basic health services like checkups, vaccinations, sore throats etc., it's a great thing to have. You then have no need for people to walk out on an emergency room bill of $400 because they had a sore throat.

Quote:3. The reason that prescription drugs are so expensive in the U.S. is the free market. Because we do not regulate it, Big Pharm does two anti-competitive things to ensure its domestic profits: 1) They set prices here, just in the U.S., to cover their R&D and whatever profit mark they want to make. I can, and have, bought my allergy meds for pennies on the dollar in Canada, Australia, even Hong Kong. Why do they gouge U.S. citizens to cover their costs, but charge much less, and sell OTC, for the exact same drugs abroad?

And yet you can get a 90 day supply from Wal-Mart for $10. This isn't just cold medicine. Cancer drugs, arthritis drugs and many others are also part of it. That's the free market working with that $10 price. Because Wal-Mart has buying power, just like Target, just like CareMark. If drug companies want to get their drugs to market they're going to go to the suppliers with the most reach. That's these companies. So they lower those prices to ensure Wal-Mart and the others buy from them. That's the free market at work.

This isn't theoretical, this is happening now. The proof is in the pudding. Today you can walk into Wal-Mart and get a 90 day supply of your perscriptions for $10. You can go to many Wal-Marts and get a checkup or well visit for $45. It's working. It's happening.

You take what Wal-Mart, Target etc. are doing now. Combine it with making the purchase of healthcare insurance a national business instead of a state or regional and you have real cost reduction and real reform. If people can pay $45 for a well visit to one of these and get a 90 day supply of their perscriptions for $10, they don't need to buy insurance that pays for a well visit for a doctor with a $25 co-pay. You take that out of it and then families can purchase catastrophic insurance coverage, now at lower rates because well visits are no longer a part of it and costs have come down due to competition. Then the government can subsidize catastrophic insurance for the uninsured, which costs a hell of a lot less than total care.

People are waaaay too quick to dismiss the free market. Something that has worked for a very long time.

You're ignoring the rest of my post. Yes it works over the short term, but you're exchanging one master for another over the long haul.

(07-18-2009 09:48 AM)Artifice Wrote:  You're ignoring the rest of my post. Yes it works over the short term, but you're exchanging one master for another over the long haul.

No I'm not, I'm saying the points you're making about lobbyists, multi-nationals etc. I disagree with. I don't believe any of that would outweigh the power of taking the Wal-Mart approach to healthcare. No the free market isn't perfect, but it's better than anything else.

Buying power means cost reductions. That's a time tested fact. No amount of lobbying is going to let a drug company keep prices artificially high when the free market refuses to pay that price.

You've posted a great deal on what's wrong with the current system and why the solutions others endorse won't work. What do you think will fix it? You support Obamacare? A variation there of? I'm no expert by any stretch so I'm interested in anyone's opinion on how to make it better. (except Robert Al-N, who's a fool.)

(07-18-2009 06:11 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  His behavior was uncalled for but it doesn't surprise me. Not saying that he's an awful person all of the time but no one here can deny that he doesn't, 100% of the time, come off as a douchebag. In fact, I think that was mentioned in another thread.

I deny it. In fact, I encourage people to stand up, get in the face of dumbasses, and tell them to STFU. If you just sit back and listen to nonsense, you give fools the impression you agree with their stupidity. And they will repeat their BS with the confidence that they are correct. It's rare but occasionally when you tell a person they're an insane moonbat, you get through their weak, feable brain and they will start to think. It's satisfying to see a brain activated for the first time. Granted, most of the time you will get responces like "I know I am but what are you" and tears flowing like a little girl.

(07-18-2009 09:19 AM)Artifice Wrote:  3. The reason that prescription drugs are so expensive in the U.S. is the free market. Because we do not regulate it,.....

Do you want to edit that or let it stand as a monument to your, um, intellect?

Is "it" credibility?

(07-18-2009 08:03 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Sounds like the caller is a total nutjob moron!!!

Worse than that, she's in Mass, where they have gov't run health care. That's what she's complaining about, but wants everyone else to suffer.

(07-18-2009 02:34 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-18-2009 08:03 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Sounds like the caller is a total nutjob moron!!!

Worse than that, she's in Mass, where they have gov't run health care. That's what she's complaining about, but wants everyone else to suffer.

Yes...a Masshole.

(07-18-2009 02:34 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-18-2009 08:03 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Sounds like the caller is a total nutjob moron!!!

Worse than that, she's in Mass, where they have gov't run health care. That's what she's complaining about, but wants everyone else to suffer.

Republican started gov't healthcare.

(07-18-2009 07:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2009 02:34 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-18-2009 08:03 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Sounds like the caller is a total nutjob moron!!!

Worse than that, she's in Mass, where they have gov't run health care. That's what she's complaining about, but wants everyone else to suffer.

Republican started gov't healthcare.

I believe you are confusing the Overhauling and Revamping of Medicare and Medicaid along with Social Security and SSI, with what the "Grand Prince Obamagog" is dying to do.

Fixing what is already broken is not in the same ballpark with this horrid "Obamacare" nightmare.

I can handle and go along with a Common Sense Plan to Deal with Repairing what is Already BADLY Broken, but I can not do it while so much of what the Government has taken on is absolutely screwed up to the max and is almost unfixable.

Would any of you honestly trust your Company, your Life's Blood, your Families Meal Ticket, to a Contract Out to the United States Government for anything other than Military Security ????

And the ONLY REASON the Military works Half Ass right, is because MOSTLY MILITARY PEOPLE RUN IT BEHIND THE SCENES (disregarding the ever public 'Joint Chiefs').

I wouldn't trust them on YOUR LIVES with Mainstream Work Contracts. So why do I want them choosing my DOCTOR for me ???

Show me you can Fix What Is Broken First, then I can trust you a little more with bigger things.

.

And that Massachusetts Healthcare system is BROKE.


GLENN: Kathy, get off my phone! Get off my phone, you little pinhead! I don't care? "You people don't care about the trillions." Get off my phone! I'm going to lose my mind today!

STU: Never listened to this show. She's never listened to it.

GLENN: Never listened to the show, and she's from Massachusetts. Pat, tell me what's happening in Massachusetts today.

PAT: Disaster.

GLENN: Tell me, do you know? Tell me about healthcare. Who knows? Who knows?

STU: Oh, yes. Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants.

GLENN: Illegal. Legal.

PAT: Legal immigrants are being dropped from the healthcare system.

STU: Permanent citizens, correct?

PAT: We understood was it's people here on student Visas, it's here on work permits, all of those. They are legal in the country.

GLENN: Legal, legally here.

PAT: Immigrated here and they are being dropped from the rolls because Massachusetts can't afford it.

GLENN: Can't afford it in their universal program.

PAT: Yep, can't afford it.

GLENN: Legal immigrants are being dropped. "But you don't care, Glenn, about anybody spending a trillion dollars."

PAT: They don't understand it can't be done.

STU: And also that's a person that has either never ‑‑ has never listened to the radio show, has never watched the television show because all we do is complain about bailouts. And I can tell you specifically the story she told about walking into a clinic in France when you're on vacation is almost word for word directly out of Sicko by Michael Moore. That's a bad example.

GLENN: And let me just point this out. When I asked her about the health insurance in France, she went immediately to the government health insurance. Have to look up the exact stat here but I believe there ‑‑ do you have it, Stu? Do you know where I'm going? Is this from argument? We have a new book coming out in September and I'll tell you about it, but it's Argument against the Idiots and it is the best book we've ever done. Would you disagree with that?

STU: Yeah. Well, I haven't read the entire thing but what I've read, I love.

GLENN: Oh, I think it's the best book we've ever done, and I'll get into it later. But it has these arguments. Idiots like this woman, and we took all of the arguments and we answered them with all of the facts and logic that she doesn't think we have. Do you have the stat?

STU: If it's the one I'm thinking, at least the way I was going from your thought is correct that, yes, there's government insurance in France, but 90% of people in France purchase complementary private insurance because they hate the system so much. They also are paying, I want to say ‑‑ I don't have that number in front of me ‑‑ 13% of their price out of pocket anyway of the cost of their healthcare and they're also paying 19% of their earnings. 19% of their earnings just to pay for healthcare.

PAT: And then they don't like ‑‑ plus they have to get their own health insurance.

GLENN: Plus private health insurance, plus. And it's still not what we have. What this country is doing is they are leveling the playing field, leveling the playing field. Well, when you level the playing field, nobody's ‑‑ you notice nobody's talking about bringing everybody up to the standard of the rich.

PAT: No.

GLENN: They are going to bring it down so everyone has the same crappy standard. Well, I got news for you, gang, that's not the way a country progresses. That is the way a country goes out of business. This is the way ‑‑ somebody has got to look at this country as a business because I hate to bring it up, but this country changed the world. We were crappin' in the woods. We were spending our whole day trying to plant fields. We were reading, if you could read, in the dark by a candle. Of course, we didn't have as much CO2 back then. But we changed the world. Now, if you want to give up ‑‑ the question you have to ask yourself: Is capitalism dead, yes or no. Understand that freedom and capitalism go hand in hand. You cannot dissever them. You cannot pull them apart. You cannot have freedom without capitalism, you cannot have capitalism without freedom. You can have corrupt capitalism if you have corrupt people living freely. But you cannot have freedom without capitalism and vice versa.&nbs p; So the question to you today is are you done yet. Are you done yet? Is capitalism done? And if not, have you given up? Or have you not yet begun to fight? Because I got news for ya: I am going down swinging, jack, and it is time more people get off their ass and surround the capitol and say enough! You are not taking my country and driving it into the ground.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/article...7909/?ck=1

(07-18-2009 08:07 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-17-2009 10:37 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Why does a door ding in your car door cost 800 dollars to fix? Hint: Same reason health care costs are skyrocketing. Fix the middle man.

I totally agree Mach.

That's why our government should study front to back how Wal-Mart is offering healthcare and seek to promote it.

Yeah, Wal-Mart's way of offering healthcare is something we should promote.

Like I said, the whole topic looses any meaning when you hear the whole thing. What the hell, anyone who listens to Glenn knew the whole topic was just fantasy. But thanks for the little side track to another of your amusing smear attemps Arti.