Here was the secret/real views of the KGB via the Stasi(East German Secret Police) of our Presidents in the past

On Ronald Reagan:

Quote:”(Reagan is) a firm and unbending politician for whom words and deeds are one and the same.”

and more, note how they viewed Jimmah

Stasi

Quote:East german Communist Party Chief and head of State Erich Honecker aspired to visit the United States and meet with President Ronald Reagan to gain prestige for himself and polish the image of his police state. However, the visit never occurred, chiefly because of the DDR’s support of International Terrorism. However, to prepar for an eventual visit, the Stasi foreign espionage directorate compiled an extensive dossier on the U.S. President. Most of the dossier consisted of top secret KGB and Cuban Intelligence reports and analyses. President Reagan was described by the KGB as a “died-in-the-wool anti-communist who engaged in a campaign to drive progressive people out of the film industry and the unions.” As a presidential candidate, it added, he promised to regain the “international leadership position the United States forfeited under President Carter.” The KGB analysts expressed their low opinion of President Jimmy Carter by noting that he had “mismanaged the economy, reduced the morale of American business, and weakened the United States position worldwide.” A number of reports expressed the belief that Mr. Reagan would reverse this trend and quoted him as saying during the 1980 campaign: “no one wants to use atomic weapons, but the enemy should go to sleep every night in fear that we could use them.”

The tone of many reports was one of reluctant respect: “Reagan is a firm and unbending politician for whom words and deeds are one and the same.” In remarkably frank language, one KGB profile emphasized the president’s “incessant attacks on the lack of political freedom, prohibition of free speech, restrictions on religious worship and travel, and economic failures of the socialist countries.” In closing, the writer complained that Reagan ignored the positive attributes such as “efforts to achieve world peace and disarmament and the fulfillment of the Helsinki Accords by reuniting families.” A twenty-nine-page Cuban Intelligence analysis written in February 1986 expressed admiration for President Reagan: “Despite advanced age, despite health problems and the fact that he is in his second term, Reagan enjoys high personal popularity. He presents himself as a capable president and is able, if necessary, to participate in all important political events.”

(07-15-2009 12:00 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 03:38 AM)Tripster Wrote:  I45, if you go back and look at my Reply, it clearly says that "Maybe we will get a better video of this and it will show us more of what happened as Obama walked down the line" - - the one you posted 'Kinda Sorta' does that.

...

I gave him more benefit of the doubt than I usually do on the goofy "Handshake Thing" and I honestly don't care if all of Moscow turned out to NOT SHAKE HIS HAND, if I think so little of him HERE, in the U.S., why on Earth should the Russians give any sort of care about him over there ???

I understood your approach, and I appreciate that you (and SMN and Paul) viewed the allegation critically. The bulk of my post wasn't directed at you, but at various posters in this thread and a myriad of blog entries and comments over the web. You of all people should be willing to grant me a little room to wander all over the map in my post, right? :^)

(07-15-2009 03:38 AM)Tripster Wrote:  And why on Earth would I be angry at the Russians for doing the exact same thing I would do if this being stuck his hand out for me to shake.

You are not likely to be in a diplomatic receiving line of a country that invited the POTUS on a state visit. When some random vessel represents the United States in a foreign country on a state visit, if they were to be openly disrespectful to that vessel, then they are being openly disrespectful to the United States and that should piss off all Americans, partisanship aside. If they burned the US Flag on the middle of the table between the delegations, I'd expect you to be pissed off - I wouldn't see the two as being any different.

(07-15-2009 03:38 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .... I just want him to STOP RAPING MY COUNTRY .... Aye ????

I'll grant you that ... I just think it's better that we handle our grievences "in house" rather than on the world stage.

Nods+ to your Points .... I do see where you are coming from and do have to "Semi-Agree" on them.

And me being me, I would not want the U.S. Disrespected in that way since you eloquently made that great point ... I just hate having to defend "him" for this kind of thing.

Makes my skin crawl.

I truly and honestly do not want to Dislike the POTUS on almost a 100% Level, but this guy gives a person No Wiggle Room .... that is why he a either a "Love Him or Hate Him" POTUS and he has made that bed for himself, not me or Paul or Steve.

I wish he would come back to the Center and get a Grip on what he is doing to this Fantastic Nation ... he has so much to work with and all he wants to do is tear it down in a most "Valley-Girl Style, Talk to the Hand" kind of way .... and this helps no one in the end.

He is NOT God even though he would like to believe he is and he has a Constituency Base that is Screaming Out at him to SLOW DOWN and he does not Listen.

This is not Combat where he has to Rush Troops to the Front all day long to Hold the Line, this is "Legislation" that can WAIT until it is fully read and understood and has been Absolutely Explained to the American People with not BS tossed in if it takes 2 Years to do this.

Who is the guy that he can come in and just start Remantling the United States into the "Nation of Obama" ???? I mean WTF is he for doing this ???

I am very very worried for my Families Future and Obama does not seem to be caring and that is his MAIN JOB outside of defending this Nation.

.

(07-15-2009 12:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 06:00 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 10:10 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ALL of those guys look Russian. Never been out of the country, have ya? Here's a hint, Russians don't look like Klingons.

Those people are the American delegation. Go to 0.09 sec you'll see the grey hair man (Medvedev shakes his hand at 0.13), he is Richard Ben Veniste.

My make of the entire clip is that it's Obama introducing the US delegation to Medvedev. Can't quite understand what the fuss is, except it seems that the crazies are trying to stretch anything to make him look bad. Just as the crazies on the left are trying to stretch everything to make him look good.

There's plenty to dislike about Obama without making up stupid stuff.

Heck, if he offered his hand to me, I wouldn't shake it. So why would it bother me that someone else doesn't? If that were what's happening here, which I think it's not.

These right-wing nutjobs go for anything. Silly neocons. Do you really think MSNBC would be showing Obama being snubbed by russians. You best bring krytonite.

(07-15-2009 12:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 06:00 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 10:10 PM)Rebel Wrote:  ALL of those guys look Russian. Never been out of the country, have ya? Here's a hint, Russians don't look like Klingons.

Those people are the American delegation. Go to 0.09 sec you'll see the grey hair man (Medvedev shakes his hand at 0.13), he is Richard Ben Veniste.

My make of the entire clip is that it's Obama introducing the US delegation to Medvedev. Can't quite understand what the fuss is, except it seems that the crazies are trying to stretch anything to make him look bad. Just as the crazies on the left are trying to stretch everything to make him look good.

There's plenty to dislike about Obama without making up stupid stuff.

Heck, if he offered his hand to me, I wouldn't shake it. So why would it bother me that someone else doesn't? If that were what's happening here, which I think it's not.

+1...Yes...This is a bunch of silly garbage.

I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  +1...Yes...This is a bunch of silly garbage.

I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

Fo, I honestly would NOT accept a Handshake from this guy ... I could never get the Filth Off.

It is too the point where I have to Turn my Eyes away from the TV when this Clown exits Air Force One or Marine One and these Poor Forced Soldiers have to Salute this Farce of a TOTUS ..... I swear it actually makes me sick to see it happen. I can't stand it man.

And he is a "Being" to me anyway .... a Human offering a handshake might be different .....

NO IT WOULDN'T, not in his case it wouldn't.

Shaking his hand would be like having eat Buzzard Snot Balls ....

.

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

Well, I think there is a time and place. At the CONCACAF meetings earlier this year where Obama shook Chavez's hand, I think he made a big mistake. Then there's the gift that Chavez left for the dupe - that was embarrassing. Likewise when Obama shook Khadafi's hand. Clearly, Obama has no qualms about shaking the hands of dictators and murderers. But, that was an international setting, and that's where you're more likely to see various snubs and manipulations of protocol.

(07-15-2009 12:00 PM)I45owl Wrote:  You are not likely to be in a diplomatic receiving line of a country that invited the POTUS on a state visit. When some random vessel represents the United States in a foreign country on a state visit, if they were to be openly disrespectful to that vessel, then they are being openly disrespectful to the United States and that should piss off all Americans, partisanship aside. If they burned the US Flag on the middle of the table between the delegations, I'd expect you to be pissed off - I wouldn't see the two as being any different.

There is a difference, and it is huge. Our current POTUS has profaned the qualities of the US. To show disrespect to him is to show disrespect toward his profanities.

For you to connect this POTUS to the traditional US IS the problem, our founding fathers explicitly warned us not to let tyranny destroy the principles that established the country. Sitting back being idle is the insult to the US, not a snub by foreign diplomats. The travesty is that THEY seem to GET IT.

(07-15-2009 11:56 PM)Tripster Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  +1...Yes...This is a bunch of silly garbage.

I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

You are seriously a sickand pathetic little man. Good god I never hated Bush as much as you hate Obama(in terms of policy, maybe close but on a personal level, you are WAY out there).

Fo, I honestly would NOT accept a Handshake from this guy ... I could never get the Filth Off.

It is too the point where I have to Turn my Eyes away from the TV when this Clown exits Air Force One or Marine One and these Poor Forced Soldiers have to Salute this Farce of a TOTUS ..... I swear it actually makes me sick to see it happen. I can't stand it man.

And he is a "Being" to me anyway .... a Human offering a handshake might be different .....

NO IT WOULDN'T, not in his case it wouldn't.

Shaking his hand would be like having eat Buzzard Snot Balls ....

.

(07-16-2009 11:41 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 12:00 PM)I45owl Wrote:  You are not likely to be in a diplomatic receiving line of a country that invited the POTUS on a state visit. When some random vessel represents the United States in a foreign country on a state visit, if they were to be openly disrespectful to that vessel, then they are being openly disrespectful to the United States and that should piss off all Americans, partisanship aside. If they burned the US Flag on the middle of the table between the delegations, I'd expect you to be pissed off - I wouldn't see the two as being any different.

There is a difference, and it is huge. Our current POTUS has profaned the qualities of the US. To show disrespect to him is to show disrespect toward his profanities.

For you to connect this POTUS to the traditional US IS the problem, our founding fathers explicitly warned us not to let tyranny destroy the principles that established the country. Sitting back being idle is the insult to the US, not a snub by foreign diplomats. The travesty is that THEY seem to GET IT.

Again, you're operating on the false premise that foreign diplomats did snub Obama. But, to the extent that (as we perceive it) Obama is operating against the interests of the US, you would fully expect rival nations to praise him for it.

As far as sitting back and being idle - it's all well and fine to protest Obama and everything he does here. But to see another nation (hypothetically) publicly disrespect the POTUS on the international stage is something that would enrage me - not because I want to see other nations show a personal like for Obama, but because I couldn't stand to see another nation brazen enough to do something like that to a representative of the USA with impunity.

Your criticism of the connection between the POTUS and the US just ignores the reality of the situation. Those who claim that he's not a legitimate president are relying on a mishmash of obscure quirks of his very early childhood situation while attempting to whitewash the fact that he very convincingly won the election. I don't like that result. I don't like what Obama has done or what he will likely do in the future. I don't like what he has said in trips to Cairo and Germany. But, I'm not going to show glee when and if another government were to treat this or any other POTUS with disdain.

(07-16-2009 11:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

Well, I think there is a time and place. At the CONCACAF meetings earlier this year where Obama shook Chavez's hand, I think he made a big mistake. Then there's the gift that Chavez left for the dupe - that was embarrassing. Likewise when Obama shook Khadafi's hand. Clearly, Obama has no qualms about shaking the hands of dictators and murderers. But, that was an international setting, and that's where you're more likely to see various snubs and manipulations of protocol.

I'd say the appropriate snub would be just to simply not attend these events and publicly explain why. If you are going to attend...then be a gentleman.

(07-16-2009 03:28 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2009 11:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

Well, I think there is a time and place. At the CONCACAF meetings earlier this year where Obama shook Chavez's hand, I think he made a big mistake. Then there's the gift that Chavez left for the dupe - that was embarrassing. Likewise when Obama shook Khadafi's hand. Clearly, Obama has no qualms about shaking the hands of dictators and murderers. But, that was an international setting, and that's where you're more likely to see various snubs and manipulations of protocol.

I'd say the appropriate snub would be just to simply not attend these events and publicly explain why. If you are going to attend...then be a gentleman.

Not an option (at least for the president and diplomats). You can't allow the presence or non-presence of a Venezuelan strongman to dictate the actions of the US. At the same time, it's naive to allow a simple gesture to be used for propaganda purposes (the handshake wasn't nearly as big a deal as receiving a book chronicling the supposed evil intentions of the US.

(07-16-2009 04:00 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-16-2009 03:28 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2009 11:35 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-15-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I disagree though with one thing you said.....I would never reject a handshake. I just find that tacky...regardless of your feelings. If I disliked someone that much...I would have been principled enough to NOT be associated with them. In this case...since these are all basically thieves and there is not real reason for one criminal to act better than another.

Well, I think there is a time and place. At the CONCACAF meetings earlier this year where Obama shook Chavez's hand, I think he made a big mistake. Then there's the gift that Chavez left for the dupe - that was embarrassing. Likewise when Obama shook Khadafi's hand. Clearly, Obama has no qualms about shaking the hands of dictators and murderers. But, that was an international setting, and that's where you're more likely to see various snubs and manipulations of protocol.

I'd say the appropriate snub would be just to simply not attend these events and publicly explain why. If you are going to attend...then be a gentleman.

Not an option (at least for the president and diplomats). You can't allow the presence or non-presence of a Venezuelan strongman to dictate the actions of the US. At the same time, it's naive to allow a simple gesture to be used for propaganda purposes (the handshake wasn't nearly as big a deal as receiving a book chronicling the supposed evil intentions of the US.

I think you underestimate the power of ostracism.

(07-16-2009 08:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you underestimate the power of ostracism.

But what you're talking about is self-ostracism. If the US were able to exclude Chavez, then fine. More likely, the US would be criticized as bullying its allies, yada yada.

(07-16-2009 09:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-16-2009 08:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think you underestimate the power of ostracism.

But what you're talking about is self-ostracism. If the US were able to exclude Chavez, then fine. More likely, the US would be criticized as bullying its allies, yada yada.

Yeah...I get it....I just only believe in self ostracism...F governments.