http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-2009-7

http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2009..._we_s.html

in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Next up: Eliminating the job gains of the 1990s.

The incoming Deflation

starting to sound like no massive inflation, but continuing Deflation. Combine that with all the Debt Obama has placed on us(this makes the debt more burdensome than Inflation would) and the fact they don't know how to deal with deflation really and who knows what the future holds.

(07-14-2009 10:37 AM)GGniner Wrote:  The incoming Deflation

starting to sound like no massive inflation, but continuing Deflation. Combine that with all the Debt Obama has placed on us(this makes the debt more burdensome than Inflation would) and the fact they don't know how to deal with deflation really and who knows what the future holds.

What I expect is deflation in real terms, offset by runaway inflation in nominal terms because of the need to print money to service the burgeoning debt. Nobody knows how to deal with that.

One thing for sure, we have zero chance of servicing the debt with a deflating currency. So they will have to print money. The result could make the 1970s Argentine peso look like a stable currency.

We need to start quantifying "We" in global terms with this, the US is the key player of course but the Monetary Policy of China and other countries plays a key role in this mess also. Which that article I posted notes at the end.

Captialism and Trade lead to globalism

For the world as a whole, I see real deflation, at least short term. Assuming 20% deflation, what was worth 100 currency units will be worth 80.

In the US only, I see another factor. It's going to be hard enough to pay our debts in any event, perhaps impossible with a deflating currency. So the US prints money to inflate the currency. With 50% real inflation, using the above example the constant-dollar value goes from $100 to $80, representing 20% deflation. But the US monetary inflates the price 50%, to $120. That, of course, looks like 20% inflation, and our politicians convince us we can live with that.

Look at it from the viewpoint of China or Japan or UAE or any of our other creditors. They loaned us $100, and with real deflation they were expecting their $100 repaymrnt to be worth $125 in constant dollars. Instead, it's now worth $83. So they decide we are a bad currency risk and stop lending. Flush us.

(07-14-2009 09:43 AM)GGniner Wrote:  in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Yeah. We all know it is all Obama's fault. I don't know if he is the best since FDR because he is trying to mix policies that work with Republican policies that limit how good he could be.

(07-14-2009 10:37 AM)GGniner Wrote:  The incoming Deflation

starting to sound like no massive inflation, but continuing Deflation. Combine that with all the Debt Obama has placed on us(this makes the debt more burdensome than Inflation would) and the fact they don't know how to deal with deflation really and who knows what the future holds.

Oh my god, oh my god! Inflation is coming! Oh wait, now the FNC says DDEFLATION! Oh my god, oh my god! Deflation! THis is horrible! THis is WORSE than inflation! Oh my god, what are we all going to do? We are all doomed!

(07-14-2009 11:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 09:43 AM)GGniner Wrote:  in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Yeah. We all know it is all Obama's fault. I don't know if he is the best since FDR because he is trying to mix policies that work with Republican policies that limit how good he could be.

Now that is funny. Obama has his party in both pieces of the legislature. So what Republican policies is he fighting against? Wow, you know this is going to be a disaster and you're already fabricating the excuses.

(07-14-2009 11:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For the world as a whole, I see real deflation, at least short term. Assuming 20% deflation, what was worth 100 currency units will be worth 80.

In the US only, I see another factor. It's going to be hard enough to pay our debts in any event, perhaps impossible with a deflating currency. So the US prints money to inflate the currency. With 50% real inflation, using the above example the constant-dollar value goes from $100 to $80, representing 20% deflation. But the US monetary inflates the price 50%, to $120. That, of course, looks like 20% inflation, and our politicians convince us we can live with that.

Look at it from the viewpoint of China or Japan or UAE or any of our other creditors. They loaned us $100, and with real deflation they were expecting their $100 repaymrnt to be worth $125 in constant dollars. Instead, it's now worth $83. So they decide we are a bad currency risk and stop lending. Flush us.

This is all just Republican scare tactic bull****.

(07-14-2009 12:06 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For the world as a whole, I see real deflation, at least short term. Assuming 20% deflation, what was worth 100 currency units will be worth 80.

In the US only, I see another factor. It's going to be hard enough to pay our debts in any event, perhaps impossible with a deflating currency. So the US prints money to inflate the currency. With 50% real inflation, using the above example the constant-dollar value goes from $100 to $80, representing 20% deflation. But the US monetary inflates the price 50%, to $120. That, of course, looks like 20% inflation, and our politicians convince us we can live with that.

Look at it from the viewpoint of China or Japan or UAE or any of our other creditors. They loaned us $100, and with real deflation they were expecting their $100 repaymrnt to be worth $125 in constant dollars. Instead, it's now worth $83. So they decide we are a bad currency risk and stop lending. Flush us.

This is all just Republican scare tactic bull****.

Of course. Because folks who don't have a job, get Sec 8 housing and food stamps don't really care about inflation or deflation.

The handful of other Dems are too dumb to know what any of these words mean, anyway America's Got Talent is almost on.

(07-14-2009 11:56 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 09:43 AM)GGniner Wrote:  in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Yeah. We all know it is all Obama's fault. I don't know if he is the best since FDR because he is trying to mix policies that work with Republican policies that limit how good he could be.

Now that is funny. Obama has his party in both pieces of the legislature. So what Republican policies is he fighting against? Wow, you know this is going to be a disaster and you're already fabricating the excuses.

I think what Robert is trying to say is that Obama is trying to integrate Republican policies into his policy making.

(07-14-2009 12:39 PM)uhmump95 Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:56 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 09:43 AM)GGniner Wrote:  in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Yeah. We all know it is all Obama's fault. I don't know if he is the best since FDR because he is trying to mix policies that work with Republican policies that limit how good he could be.

Now that is funny. Obama has his party in both pieces of the legislature. So what Republican policies is he fighting against? Wow, you know this is going to be a disaster and you're already fabricating the excuses.

I think what Robert is trying to say is that Obama is trying to integrate Republican policies into his policy making.

And what policies would those be? The TARP? Geesh, that's about as far from 'Republican' as I can think of.

(07-14-2009 12:39 PM)uhmump95 Wrote:  I think what Robert is trying to say is that Obama is trying to integrate Republican policies into his policy making.

There's a reason Saxby Chambliss almost got his ass waxed in last year's election.

(07-14-2009 11:56 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:48 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 09:43 AM)GGniner Wrote:  in that 2001 to 2003 period, the Democrat talking point was that "Bush's economy was worst since Hoover, "Jobless recovery", blah blah"

if this trend keeps up, they will go out of their way to claim none of this is Obama's fault and in fact he magically made it not as bad as it would've been. i.e. the retard argument

I heard Bob Beckel last night start this argument, he said and I quote: "I consider Obama to be the best Economic President since FDR"

Yeah. We all know it is all Obama's fault. I don't know if he is the best since FDR because he is trying to mix policies that work with Republican policies that limit how good he could be.

Now that is funny. Obama has his party in both pieces of the legislature. So what Republican policies is he fighting against? Wow, you know this is going to be a disaster and you're already fabricating the excuses.

dumb***, I never said he was FIGHTING Republican parties policies(you really should learn to read). I said he was INCLUDING some Republican party policies.

(07-14-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  dumb***, I never said he was FIGHTING Republican parties policies(you really should learn to read). I said he was INCLUDING some Republican party policies.

Which ones?

(07-14-2009 01:47 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  dumb***, I never said he was FIGHTING Republican parties policies(you really should learn to read). I said he was INCLUDING some Republican party policies.

Which ones?

Tax cuts. (typed with a straight face)

(07-14-2009 12:06 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 11:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For the world as a whole, I see real deflation, at least short term. Assuming 20% deflation, what was worth 100 currency units will be worth 80.
In the US only, I see another factor. It's going to be hard enough to pay our debts in any event, perhaps impossible with a deflating currency. So the US prints money to inflate the currency. With 50% real inflation, using the above example the constant-dollar value goes from $100 to $80, representing 20% deflation. But the US monetary inflates the price 50%, to $120. That, of course, looks like 20% inflation, and our politicians convince us we can live with that.
Look at it from the viewpoint of China or Japan or UAE or any of our other creditors. They loaned us $100, and with real deflation they were expecting their $100 repaymrnt to be worth $125 in constant dollars. Instead, it's now worth $83. So they decide we are a bad currency risk and stop lending. Flush us.

This is all just Republican scare tactic bull****.

Oh, really?
Since I'm not a republican, that's an amazing comment.
Perhaps you can enlighten us. What do you see happening instead?
How do you see us dodging the bullet that I describe?

(07-14-2009 01:58 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 01:47 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(07-14-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  dumb***, I never said he was FIGHTING Republican parties policies(you really should learn to read). I said he was INCLUDING some Republican party policies.

Which ones?

Tax cuts. (typed with a straight face)

Huh?
What tax rates has he cut?