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Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
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Zipfanatik Offline
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Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
06-21-2009 10:36 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-21-2009 10:36 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote:  http://www.starexponent.com/cse/news/sta..._va/37865/
03-lmfao Good luck with that one Cantor.
06-21-2009 11:45 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
Let's just say Palin isn't the problem w/ the GOP.
06-22-2009 07:54 AM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
High Speed Rail?

Must be passed this year...

Stimulus Package
Obama Care
Cap and Trade

I thought the democrats were already giving us a High Speed Rail Job. 05-stirthepot
06-22-2009 08:12 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
This is ridiculous. We could probably use/refurbish our own older rail lines for a fraction of the price and instead we want to spend more money we don't have. I don't think we make through the end of the year with a collapse (and I blame both parties).
06-22-2009 12:23 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 08:12 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  High Speed Rail?

Must be passed this year...

Stimulus Package
Obama Care
Cap and Trade

I thought the democrats were already giving us a High Speed Rail Job. 05-stirthepot

I'm still waiting for my free pony.
06-22-2009 12:41 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 12:41 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 08:12 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  High Speed Rail?

Must be passed this year...

Stimulus Package
Obama Care
Cap and Trade

I thought the democrats were already giving us a High Speed Rail Job. 05-stirthepot

I'm still waiting for my free pony.

C'mon, Barack has paid your mortgage and car payments...give him time!
06-22-2009 12:48 PM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 12:23 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  This is ridiculous. We could probably use/refurbish our own older rail lines for a fraction of the price and instead we want to spend more money we don't have. I don't think we make through the end of the year with a collapse (and I blame both parties).
Well, I don't think there are many railroads that 1) aren't being used for freight which would make high speed trains not so high speed. 2) Not enough track that is straight enough to allow for high speeds. 3) laying new track is probably going to be a cheaper option. Older track has to be updated to allow for high speeds as well as the above make it a better decision.

For those who don't think we need it, about 3-4 hours ago(1:45 pm now) there were 6000 planes in the air. Sure that is "rush hour" but I have seen times during non-rush hour where there were 4000 in the sky. There has to be a limit for safety's sake. For those that don't want to spend gov't money on the infrastructure, did/do you have a problem with spending billions on airports every year? How about expanding roads? In California(near SD) I heard there is a road that is 10 lanes wide and it is STILL bumper to bumper! What do you do? Make it 14 lanes wide? 20 lanes wide?
06-22-2009 01:54 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 01:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 12:23 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  This is ridiculous. We could probably use/refurbish our own older rail lines for a fraction of the price and instead we want to spend more money we don't have. I don't think we make through the end of the year with a collapse (and I blame both parties).
Well, I don't think there are many railroads that 1) aren't being used for freight which would make high speed trains not so high speed. 2) Not enough track that is straight enough to allow for high speeds. 3) laying new track is probably going to be a cheaper option. Older track has to be updated to allow for high speeds as well as the above make it a better decision.

For those who don't think we need it, about 3-4 hours ago(1:45 pm now) there were 6000 planes in the air. Sure that is "rush hour" but I have seen times during non-rush hour where there were 4000 in the sky. There has to be a limit for safety's sake.

Let's see. Most of those planes are smaller jets, so if you make them bigger you'll get more capacity. Alleged problem solved.

Quote: For those that don't want to spend gov't money on the infrastructure, did/do you have a problem with spending billions on airports every year?

You mean like Murtha's? 03-lmfao
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cf...91b533464f
P. 10

Quote: How about expanding roads? In California(near SD) I heard there is a road that is 10 lanes wide and it is STILL bumper to bumper! What do you do? Make it 14 lanes wide? 20 lanes wide?

Relevance? Commuting in LA isn't what HSR serves best. It serves long trips best. And even that leads to confusion, b/c how many stops do you have, and where? More stops means longer rides.

Besides, you ever hear of buses?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12452812...st_Popular

http://www.yelp.com/biz/bolt-bus-washington

Once again, the market is solving problems well in advance, and often in spite of, gov't involvement.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2009 02:13 PM by DrTorch.)
06-22-2009 02:09 PM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 12:41 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 08:12 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  High Speed Rail?

Must be passed this year...

Stimulus Package
Obama Care
Cap and Trade

I thought the democrats were already giving us a High Speed Rail Job. 05-stirthepot

I'm still waiting for my free pony.
pony
06-22-2009 02:13 PM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 02:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 01:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 12:23 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  This is ridiculous. We could probably use/refurbish our own older rail lines for a fraction of the price and instead we want to spend more money we don't have. I don't think we make through the end of the year with a collapse (and I blame both parties).
Well, I don't think there are many railroads that 1) aren't being used for freight which would make high speed trains not so high speed. 2) Not enough track that is straight enough to allow for high speeds. 3) laying new track is probably going to be a cheaper option. Older track has to be updated to allow for high speeds as well as the above make it a better decision.

For those who don't think we need it, about 3-4 hours ago(1:45 pm now) there were 6000 planes in the air. Sure that is "rush hour" but I have seen times during non-rush hour where there were 4000 in the sky. There has to be a limit for safety's sake.

Let's see. Most of those planes are smaller jets, so if you make them bigger you'll get more capacity. Alleged problem solved.

Quote: For those that don't want to spend gov't money on the infrastructure, did/do you have a problem with spending billions on airports every year?

You mean like Murtha's? 03-lmfao
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cf...91b533464f
P. 10

Quote: How about expanding roads? In California(near SD) I heard there is a road that is 10 lanes wide and it is STILL bumper to bumper! What do you do? Make it 14 lanes wide? 20 lanes wide?

Relevance? Commuting in LA isn't what HSR serves best. It serves long trips best. And even that leads to confusion, b/c how many stops do you have, and where? More stops means longer rides.

Besides, you ever hear of buses?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12452812...st_Popular

http://www.yelp.com/biz/bolt-bus-washington

Once again, the market is solving problems well in advance, and often in spite of, gov't involvement.
I disagree that it is best for long trips. It is best for going from big city to big city(which is why it would be inconvenient in Dixie. As for LA, how about a line from LA to SD and/or LA to SF? THey are talking about LA to LV. Do you not think that would not cut down on traffic(air and road)? How about Chicago to Cleveland and/or Detroit and/or St Louis and/or Minneapolis? NY to Washington DC and/or Baltimore. I wouldn't work so well when you go from one city in Mississippi to one in Alabama. Floriduh city to Floriduh city would probably be one of the few areas in the south where it would work(may work in Texass too).
06-22-2009 02:25 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 02:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I disagree that it is best for long trips.

Then you don't understand the physics involved. It won't save much time if it's short trips. It will however, remain costly. Simply look at the Acela.

Quote: It is best for going from big city to big city(which is why it would be inconvenient in Dixie.

More putdowns. Have you ever considered thinking about an issue in lieu of trying to insult other people?

You also might want to check the population of Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville, and their growth rates, before you continue throwing out more insults.

Quote:As for LA, how about a line from LA to SD
Because that would be utterly stupid.

Quote: and/or LA to SF?

Possibly. I'll bet the market is already primed for it.

Quote: THey are talking about LA to LV.

"They" are democrats, and there's no proof this will not just be another money pit.

Quote:Do you not think that would not cut down on traffic(air and road)?

I'm not concerned about air traffic. I'm also not concerned about traffic in the desert SW. Ever driven out there?

Quote:How about Chicago to Cleveland and/or Detroit and/or St Louis and/or Minneapolis?

They have planes. They're faster than trains.

Quote:NY to Washington DC and/or Baltimore.

Uh, they already have it. You'd do better to actually know about a subject before commenting on it.
06-22-2009 02:39 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
We have crap high speed rail. I've ridden what we call high-speed rail in the Washington/New York corridor, and I've been on the Eurostar twice in the last week. There is absolutely no comparison.

We absolutely need high-speed rail, and if we had something like Eurostar or Shinkansen in Japan, people would use it. Say you're a businessman in New York and have to go to Chicago for a meeting. You can fly, and be dependent on the weather and be out of pocket while you're in the air, or you can take a train and be on the phone and the internet the whole way (as businesspeople all around us were doing). At 200 mph, the train from downtown NYC to downtown Chicago would be a bit over 4 hours, leave NYC at 8, be in Chicago for lunch with the time change, be back home early evening, and never out of touch the whole way. Is that better than a plane trip? I think so.

But see my post on the ethical transportation thread. This doesn't mean we don't need "drill here, drill now," nor does it eliminate the need for a bunch of other component solutions either. We need an "all hands on deck" approach to solve the energy problem, the numbers are just too big for any piecemeal approach to work. And so far there's nobody (except either Paris Hilton or her writers) who have come close to that. As my son says, "How bad is it when Paris f-ing Hilton has a better energy plan than either political party?"
06-22-2009 03:01 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 03:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We have crap high speed rail. I've ridden what we call high-speed rail in the Washington/New York corridor, and I've been on the Eurostar twice in the last week. There is absolutely no comparison.

We absolutely need high-speed rail, and if we had something like Eurostar or Shinkansen in Japan, people would use it. Say you're a businessman in New York and have to go to Chicago for a meeting. You can fly, and be dependent on the weather and be out of pocket while you're in the air, or you can take a train and be on the phone and the internet the whole way (as businesspeople all around us were doing). At 200 mph, the train from downtown NYC to downtown Chicago would be a bit over 4 hours, leave NYC at 8, be in Chicago for lunch with the time change, be back home early evening, and never out of touch the whole way. Is that better than a plane trip? I think so.

You might be right. But why should the gov't finance this? Funny how Morgan and Carnegie are so villified in HS history classes, but they got the railroads built. And I guarantee they did it better, faster and cheaper than the Fed Gov't.

If you want HS rail, then let the capitalists do their thing.
06-22-2009 03:10 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
I think my major point is that we need all the components to solve the problems. High-speed rail is part of the solution, but only part.

"Drill here, drill now" is absolutely necessary, but not sufficient. A lot of other things are necessary, too. What really frustrates me is the people who say things like, "All we have to do is inflate our tires and we don't need to drill any more," or the one that really drives me up the wall, "We don't need to drill, we can just do the Pickens Plan and use natural gas."
06-22-2009 03:15 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 03:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think my major point is that we need all the components to solve the problems. High-speed rail is part of the solution, but only part.

You've been pretty clear on on your point for several months. I wish I knew as much about tax law as you know about energy issues.
06-22-2009 03:33 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 03:33 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(06-22-2009 03:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think my major point is that we need all the components to solve the problems. High-speed rail is part of the solution, but only part.

You've been pretty clear on on your point for several months. I wish I knew as much about tax law as you know about energy issues.

I'm going to assume you mean that seriously and not sarcastically and say thanks for the compliment.

I really don't think we are going to see solutions to the problem at the current price of oil and, as a result, gasoline. At these prices, oil is way cheaper and way more useful than alternatives. It just is.

I think we need higher prices, and I think the only way to get there is to tax them up. Once we tax the price up, there will be plenty of market incentives for capitalists to implement all kinds of alternatives. I really don't want the government in the business of funding alternative fuels, because that's an area that's way too important to trust to government.

I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be a reasonable government project to build the high-speed rail lines and then lease them to passenger rail lines. The problem with high-speed rail is that it's really needed, but until it's in place and accepted (and I'm pretty sure it will be once people get to experience real high-speed rail), it's hard to project the economics to justify the expenditure. This is one scenario where I think you can support government action--we need something, but the economics aren't there for the private sector to take the risk.

I don't like the government involved in many things, but this may be one where it is needed.
06-22-2009 03:56 PM
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RE: Top Republican Rep. seeks federal funds for high speed rail
(06-22-2009 02:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I disagree that it is best for long trips. It is best for going from big city to big city(which is why it would be inconvenient in Dixie. As for LA, how about a line from LA to SD and/or LA to SF? THey are talking about LA to LV.

Southern California is car country. Unlike New Yorkm, very few people use mass transit. Everybody loves their cars and hates their commutes.

As for the 10 lane highway, you're a little off. It's going to be a 23 lane highway

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06-22-2009 05:56 PM
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