(06-19-2009 10:05 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Senate Backs Apology for Slavery
Resolution Specifies That It Cannot Be Used in Reparations Cases

By Krissah Thompson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 19, 2009

The Senate unanimously passed a resolution yesterday apologizing for slavery, making way for a joint congressional resolution and the latest attempt by the federal government to take responsibility for 2 1/2 centuries of slavery.

"You wonder why we didn't do it 100 years ago," Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), lead sponsor of the resolution, said after the unanimous-consent vote. "It is important to have a collective response to a collective injustice."

The Senate's apology follows a similar apology passed last year by the House. One key difference is that the Senate version explicitly deals with the long-simmering issue of whether slavery descendants are entitled to reparations, saying that the resolution cannot be used in support of claims for restitution. The House is expected to revisit the issue next week to conform its resolution to the Senate version.

Harkin, who called the Senate's vote an "important and significant milestone," said he wanted the resolution passed yesterday to closely coincide with Juneteenth, a holiday first celebrated by former slaves to mark their emancipation.

This recent willingness to deal with the nation's difficult racial history has come about in part because of President Obama's election, said Rep. Stephen I. Cohen (D-Tenn.), who began pushing for an apology more than a decade ago when he was a state senator and pronounced himself "pleased" with the Senate vote.

Still, Cohen said, "there are going to be African Americans who think that [the apology] is not reparations, and it's not action, and there are going to be Caucasians who say, 'Get over it.' . . . I look at it as something that makes people think."

Even among proponents of a congressional apology, reaction to yesterday's vote was mixed. Carol M. Swain, a professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University who had pushed for the Bush administration to issue an apology, called the Democratic-controlled Senate's resolution "meaningless" since the party and federal government are led by a black president and black voters are closely aligned with the Democratic party.


"The Republican Party needed to do it," Swain said. "It would have shed that racist scab on the party."

Republicans, however, were supportive of the resolution. "It doesn't fix everything, but it does go a long way toward acknowledgment and moving us on to the next steps to building a more perfect union, doing the things that Martin Luther King would talk about, like building a colorblind society," said Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.).

As with all congressional apologies -- but especially this one -- concerns about liability for restitution were part of the political calculations, in this case because of the long-running debate about whether the descendants of slaves should be compensated.

Charles Ogletree, the Harvard law professor who has championed restitution, was consulted on the Senate's resolution and supports it, but he said it is not a substitute for reparations. "That battle will be prolonged," he said.

Randall Robinson, author of "The Debt: What America Owes to Blacks," said he sees the Senate's apology as a "confession" that should lead to a next step of reparations. "Much is owed, and it is very quantifiable," he said. "It is owed as one would owe for any labor that one has not paid for, and until steps are taken in that direction we haven't accomplished anything."

Cohen said he and Harkin worked closely with the NAACP and other civil rights groups on language that would not endorse or preclude any future claims to reparations. "It will not harm reparations but won't give any standing to it," Cohen said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...03877.html

Interesting since the gubment was formed in 1776 and slavery abolished in 1865 not even a century. Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago. As for reparations, well, how many men lost their lives fighting to abolish slavery (the civil war)? It is also safe to say that the African Americans that are descendants of slaves live a much better life than 99% of their African relatives. There is no need for reparations, just a need to stop picking at this scab and let the nation heal. It sure seems like wound is almost gone save for the Farrakhan's Wright's and Sharpton's of the nation.

When will the governments of Ghana and other countries on the Ivory Coast of west Africa apologize for slavery? After all, the tribes that lived in those countries were the ones that kidnapped the interior tribes and sold them to the Europeans. That is a fact that gets conveniently left out of the discussion.

(06-20-2009 07:37 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  When will the governments of Ghana and other countries on the Ivory Coast of west Africa apologize for slavery? After all, the tribes that lived in those countries were the ones that kidnapped the interior tribes and sold them to the Europeans. That is a fact that gets conveniently left out of the discussion.

When will our current masters apologize for the tyranny?

Without quoting every little thing I wish to respond to, I'll just do it in a list:

1) Slavery's role in the Civil War - From everything I've learned (with a great deal coming from a year-long course on the War taught by James I. Robertson) slavery was the central question for the Civil War. While not initially the reasoning for waging war, almost all claims some how related to slavery. The states-rights movement, which is the most common "Southern argument," (which I don't believe gained momentum until 15-20 years before the war) centered around the "rights" of states, especially the newly established states, to determine their own laws, namely the legality of slavery, free of Federal intervention. Slavery was the economic backbone of the South. I also agree with Lincoln's claim that a house cannot stand half-slave, half-free, and the nation had to make a choice (as we saw in Kansas and Dred Scott decision).

2) I believe that when the 13 colonies ratified the Constitution, and every subsequent state, they entered into a permanent agreement to form a unified nation from which no state could indepedently withdraw. I do not believe it was the Founders intent to allow states to come and go as they pleased depending on whether they agreed with the Federal government. In 1869 the Supreme Court declared that the Constitution did not allow for secession, unless through "consent of the States." Therefore, I do not believe in secessionist theory while political recourse is still a viable option.

3) Knowing parts 1 and 2, the war was a necessity to preserve the Union.

Its late so I hope this is a coherent case.

What a gigantic waste of time.

(06-20-2009 06:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...You misrepresent my positions...shame on you!

I have NEVER advocated that humans not "organize". On the contrary...I fully advocate that people voluntarily join in contractual agreements,unions...ect..ect..whatever. These organizational paths are the ONLY non-violent directions to a peaceful and just society.


As for my belief system being absurd and simplistic.....You have yet to offer a single thread of evidence to that effect. Instead...you do as all indoctrinated slaves of the state do when their belief system is challenged.....offer ad hominem attacks as debate.

The shred of evidence is in your own words.

(06-21-2009 05:24 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(06-20-2009 06:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Sorry...You misrepresent my positions...shame on you!

I have NEVER advocated that humans not "organize". On the contrary...I fully advocate that people voluntarily join in contractual agreements,unions...ect..ect..whatever. These organizational paths are the ONLY non-violent directions to a peaceful and just society.


As for my belief system being absurd and simplistic.....You have yet to offer a single thread of evidence to that effect. Instead...you do as all indoctrinated slaves of the state do when their belief system is challenged.....offer ad hominem attacks as debate.

The shred of evidence is in your own words.

You do not think people should be able to contract with each other voluntarily? Must a gun be pointed at you to get you to act peacefully?

Obviously you have not thought much about the violence which is inherent with governmental control systems.

Only voluntary interaction between people is truly peaceful....Government has to use force to achieve its goals.

(06-21-2009 05:23 AM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  What a gigantic waste of time.

This

(06-20-2009 07:35 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Interesting since the gubment was formed in 1776 and slavery abolished in 1865 not even a century. Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago. As for reparations, well, how many men lost their lives fighting to abolish slavery (the civil war)? It is also safe to say that the African Americans that are descendants of slaves live a much better life than 99% of their African relatives. There is no need for reparations, just a need to stop picking at this scab and let the nation heal. It sure seems like wound is almost gone save for the Farrakhan's Wright's and Sharpton's of the nation.

America has apologized for the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, the removal of Native-Americans from their land, and Hawaii-Americans for the taking of their land. Yet, for over 100 years refused to apologize for slavery. By not apologizing, it is implied that there was nothing wrong with slavery, or that America was right in supporting and promoting slavery. People can't "get over it" because people like you make excuses for the existence of slavery. It's statements like this "Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago" that try to justyify slavery. Slavery was just as wrong 300 years ago, as it is today. Just acknowledge it was wrong; we shouldn't have done it and the issue would be dead.

Are you a loon? How many times must slavery be apologized for? Someone is always apologizing on my behalf for something I had no part in. We need to STOP apologizing. If some Senator fills some need to speak, he speaks for himself, not me. A President or minister, UN ambassador, or garbage collector, they are free to speak for themselves. They do not speak for me. I have nothing to apologize for and will not.

If future generations act silly and pull this same crap because I opposed gay marrage, supported profiling, or refused to take on the wrongs of long dead men, well then they will be just as stupid as we are.

(06-21-2009 10:28 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Are you a loon? How many times must slavery be apologized for? Someone is always apologizing on my behalf for something I had no part in. We need to STOP apologizing. If some Senator fills some need to speak, he speaks for himself, not me. A President or minister, UN ambassador, or garbage collector, they are free to speak for themselves. They do not speak for me. I have nothing to apologize for and will not.

If future generations act silly and pull this same crap because I opposed gay marrage, supported profiling, or refused to take on the wrongs of long dead men, well then they will be just as stupid as we are.

Paul, take a bow.

(06-21-2009 10:28 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Are you a loon? How many times must slavery be apologized for? Someone is always apologizing on my behalf for something I had no part in. We need to STOP apologizing. If some Senator fills some need to speak, he speaks for himself, not me. A President or minister, UN ambassador, or garbage collector, they are free to speak for themselves. They do not speak for me. I have nothing to apologize for and will not.

If future generations act silly and pull this same crap because I opposed gay marrage, supported profiling, or refused to take on the wrongs of long dead men, well then they will be just as stupid as we are.

The answer is 1. 1 apology is enough, and it had never been done. No one is apologizing your behalf. It's a American government apology for a American government mistake. Your little diatribe makes you sound like you see nothing wrong with the institution of slavery, thus the problem continues. We haven't even started on Jim Crow. There are still people alive who lived through that.

(06-21-2009 08:52 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  America has apologized for the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, the removal of Native-Americans from their land, and Hawaii-Americans for the taking of their land. Yet, for over 100 years refused to apologize for slavery. By not apologizing, it is implied that there was nothing wrong with slavery, or that America was right in supporting and promoting slavery. People can't "get over it" because people like you make excuses for the existence of slavery. It's statements like this "Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago" that try to justyify slavery. Slavery was just as wrong 300 years ago, as it is today. Just acknowledge it was wrong; we shouldn't have done it and the issue would be dead.

I may be treading on hollow intellectual ground here since you are one of the Board Geniuses in the same guise as RobertN and RockyMtSpottedFeverTick, but you are so FOS.

When George Washington and Jefferson and the rest wanted to ABOLISH SLAVERY in the New Colonies, good old King George in England would not let them .... if you knew anything about why we broke away from Britain, you would know that one of the 27 Reason given in the Charter was the Right to Abolish Slavery along with Taxes and all the other good stuff ... So King Georgie kept the slave trade hot and making money during that time in Americas young history .... BLAME THE BRIT's.

And Hawaii .... LOL .... they were Annexed into the United States as a State in 1959 homze .... there are still people my age living in Hawaii that if we stole the land from them, are there to be Apologized too.

AND ... SMART GUY .... if we had not Annexed Hawaii, your Little-god, Savior, Messiah, All Healing, All Knowing, can Raise People from the Dead, Greatest President Ever, would not be sitting in the White House making a ruin out of the United States as we speak. I don't think too many Samoans are in need of any kind of Apology for us Annexing Hawaii away from the Japanese and their BRUTAL IMPERIAL RULE.

And Apologizes to American Indians .... - - - I am wearing a shirt as I am writing this reply that has this large photo of Geronimo, Ten Bears, Some Lakota Sioux, some Cherokee on it and the caption RIGHTLY READS: "If you think you can trust your Government, Just ask any American Indian".

My wife is part Choctaw and she nor has any of her family ever been apologized too and the famous or infamous "Choctaw Trail" is only about 1 Mile From My House ..... big Bronze Signs all along it and stupid sh't like that.

Japanese Americans put into Interment Camps during WWII was an outrage and what the heck was an apology going to do for them when they LOST EVERYTHING ???? And were not given it back ????

You want to read about Heroes of WWII, just read about the American Japanese fighting men ... their courage and dedication and sacrifice should make most men feel pretty small in comparison - -

Here is a Link to just one article: http://www.sfmuseum.org/war/issei.html

The all Black "Tuskegee Airmen" who fought in Germany and when they escorted Bombers on bombing runs, THEY NEVER LOST A SINGLE BOMBER on THEIR WATCH !!!!!! The white boys new them from the Red Tails they had painted on their planes and were asking for them BY NAME to escort them during their Bombing Missions .... no other Flying Wing can claim a 100% Safe Return Rate for their Bombers when they ran Escorts.

Just who are we apologizing too and just who are we apologizing from ???? George Washington, Ben Franklin, Jefferson Davis, Sam Houston, Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, or Lincoln himself who did NOT fight the Civil War to Free Slaves ..... who is still alive today that was a Slave or a Child of a Slave to Accept this "Apology" ?????

Do you honestly believe this half-assed apology will disband the New Black Panther Party, the Crips, the Bloods, or any other Gang that feels the need to strap up and hit the streets at high noon because their Great Great Great Great Uncle was a Slave and they have been taught to Hate and Mistrust all White People because of it ???

When to do we apologize for Taking California and Texas from Mexico ???? I bet there are some who are wishing California was still in Mexico right now with all the debt they have.

Who the hell are we apologizing too and who the hell are we representing within this Apology ... surely not ME - none of my family ever owned a Slave there Boss, so who is being Represented here ???

Asshats like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson ---- I don't care about them ... they make their $Millions$ off the backs of Poor Black Americans and you are going to apologize to these Shyster Thieves ???

You apologize out your gazoo - - it ain't gonna change one damn thang.

.

(06-21-2009 10:47 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 10:28 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Are you a loon? How many times must slavery be apologized for? Someone is always apologizing on my behalf for something I had no part in. We need to STOP apologizing. If some Senator fills some need to speak, he speaks for himself, not me. A President or minister, UN ambassador, or garbage collector, they are free to speak for themselves. They do not speak for me. I have nothing to apologize for and will not.

If future generations act silly and pull this same crap because I opposed gay marrage, supported profiling, or refused to take on the wrongs of long dead men, well then they will be just as stupid as we are.

The answer is 1. 1 apology is enough, and it had never been done. No one is apologizing your behalf. It's a American government apology for a American government mistake. Your little diatribe makes you sound like you see nothing wrong with the institution of slavery,

You did read my post didn't you? Let me quote myself if you missed it.

Quote:or refused to take on the wrongs of long dead men

I've put an ear wax removal kit in the mail to you. And reading glasses.

(06-21-2009 10:47 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  thus the problem continues. We haven't even started on Jim Crow. There are still people alive who lived through that.

"We havent even started on Jim Crow."
Well that just makes a lie of your assurtion that "1 apology is enough"

(06-21-2009 08:52 AM)egoboss407 Wrote:  

(06-20-2009 07:35 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Interesting since the gubment was formed in 1776 and slavery abolished in 1865 not even a century. Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago. As for reparations, well, how many men lost their lives fighting to abolish slavery (the civil war)? It is also safe to say that the African Americans that are descendants of slaves live a much better life than 99% of their African relatives. There is no need for reparations, just a need to stop picking at this scab and let the nation heal. It sure seems like wound is almost gone save for the Farrakhan's Wright's and Sharpton's of the nation.

America has apologized for the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, the removal of Native-Americans from their land, and Hawaii-Americans for the taking of their land. Yet, for over 100 years refused to apologize for slavery. By not apologizing, it is implied that there was nothing wrong with slavery, or that America was right in supporting and promoting slavery. People can't "get over it" because people like you make excuses for the existence of slavery. It's statements like this "Slavery is an ugly chapter in US history, but only by modern standards. Many pre-industrial countries used slaves to fill out their workforce. I think it is inappropriate for the US government at this time, this was a problem that belonged to folks about 150 years ago" that try to justyify slavery. Slavery was just as wrong 300 years ago, as it is today. Just acknowledge it was wrong; we shouldn't have done it and the issue would be dead.

The fact that so many Americans died to keep the nation United and abolish slavery proved, with actions, the winning government felt it was wrong. An apology now is wrong because the government is speaking to & for generations of individuals that have no idea of what went on at that time. The fact that people TRY to saddle the US government with a history of 2 1/2 centuries proves that the Senators in question don't even have a clue. Any slavery conditions prior to 1776 would have been under British rule, should the British apologize for the time up to July 4, 1776?