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Liberal view of Iran's election...
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #1
Liberal view of Iran's election...
Considering the source is a liberal rag not surprising...


Quote:Without any evidence, many U.S. politicians and “Iran experts” have dismissed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s reelection Friday, with 62.6 percent of the vote, as fraud.


They ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad’s 62.6 percent of the vote in this year’s election is essentially the same as the 61.69 percent he received in the final count of the 2005 presidential election, when he trounced former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. The shock of the “Iran experts” over Friday’s results is entirely self-generated, based on their preferred assumptions and wishful thinking.

Because both elections ended with similar results both must have been fair and free of any MATERIAL FRAUD. 01-wingedeagle

I love this logic, Iran is a great democracy as good or better than the U.S. so two elections where the same candidate gets about the same percentage of the vote is proof the election was fair??? 05-nono

This ignores the fact there was a larger turnout for this election. Iran's economy is horrible. Iran's standing in the world is blemished, well except in President Hussein's eyes.

Ahmadinejad won. Get over it

I just love that title!!!
06-16-2009 05:08 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch. [Image: jerkitsmiley.gif]

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there.

Obama repeated Tuesday at a news conference his "deep concerns" about the disputed balloting. He said he believes the ayatollah's decision to order an investigation "indicates he understands the Iranian people have deep concerns."

But at the same time, Obama said it would not be helpful if the United States was seen by the world as "meddling" in the issue.

The president did say, however, that he worries "when I see violence directed at peaceful protesters, when I see peaceful protest being suppressed."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=..._article=1
06-16-2009 06:06 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 06:06 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch. [Image: jerkitsmiley.gif]

President Barack Obama says he believes supreme leader Ayatollah ali Khamenei has deep concerns about the civil unrest that has followed the hotly contested presidential election there.

Obama repeated Tuesday at a news conference his "deep concerns" about the disputed balloting. He said he believes the ayatollah's decision to order an investigation "indicates he understands the Iranian people have deep concerns."

But at the same time, Obama said it would not be helpful if the United States was seen by the world as "meddling" in the issue.

The president did say, however, that he worries "when I see violence directed at peaceful protesters, when I see peaceful protest being suppressed."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=..._article=1

I'm sure the recount will result in lots of hangings, unfortunately it won't be Chads.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2009 06:24 PM by THE NC Herd Fan.)
06-16-2009 06:12 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 06:12 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  I'm sure the recount will result in lots of hangings, unfortunately it won't be Chads.

The death toll so far is 7.. according to the offical media. Hell, for all we know, it could really be in the 100's since there are protests all over and most of the news is coming out of Tehran.

Want a denuclearized Iran? Easy.. overthrow the Mullahs.
06-16-2009 06:21 PM
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jh Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 05:08 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Because both elections ended with similar results both must have been fair and free of any MATERIAL FRAUD. 01-wingedeagle
They make no such claim.

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:I love this logic, Iran is a great democracy as good or better than the U.S. so two elections where the same candidate gets about the same percentage of the vote is proof the election was fair??? 05-nono
Again, they make no such claim.
Quote:Although Iran’s elections are not free by Western standards, the Islamic Republic has a 30-year history of highly contested and competitive elections at the presidential, parliamentary and local levels.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:This ignores the fact there was a larger turnout for this election.
They address this issue.
Quote:The “Iran experts” further argue that the high turnout on June 12 — 82 percent of the electorate — had to favor Mousavi. But this line of analysis reflects nothing more than assumptions.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:Iran's economy is horrible.
And this one.
Quote:American “Iran experts” assumed that “disastrous” economic conditions in Iran would undermine Ahmadinejad’s reelection prospects. But the International Monetary Fund projects that Iran’s economy will actually grow modestly this year (when the economies of most Gulf Arab states are in recession). A significant number of Iranians — including the religiously pious, lower-income groups, civil servants and pensioners — appear to believe that Ahmadinejad’s policies have benefited them.

And, while many Iranians complain about inflation, the TFT poll found that most Iranian voters do not hold Ahmadinejad responsible.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:Iran's standing in the world is blemished, well except in President Hussein's eyes.
This one too.
Quote:Similarly, Ahmadinejad’s criticism that Mousavi’s reformist supporters, including Khatami, had been willing to suspend Iran’s uranium enrichment program and had won nothing from the West for doing so tapped into popular support for the program — and had the added advantage of being true.


You also conveniently ignored this
Quote:Before the debates, both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad campaign aides indicated privately that they perceived a surge of support for Mousavi; after the debates, the same aides concluded that Ahmadinejad’s provocatively impressive performance and Mousavi’s desultory one had boosted the incumbent’s standing. Ahmadinejad’s charge that Mousavi was supported by Rafsanjani’s sons — widely perceived in Iranian society as corrupt figures — seemed to play well with voters.

And this
Quote:But the one poll conducted before Friday’s election by a Western organization that was transparent about its methodology — a telephone poll carried out by the Washington-based Terror-Free Tomorrow from May 11 to 20 — found Ahmadinejad running 20 points ahead of Mousavi.
Of course, I believe something like 57% of the respondents were still undecided, so it's not the most convincing of polls.

Would you care to actually address any of their points?
06-16-2009 07:55 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 07:55 PM)jh Wrote:  
(06-16-2009 05:08 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Because both elections ended with similar results both must have been fair and free of any MATERIAL FRAUD. 01-wingedeagle
They make no such claim.

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:I love this logic, Iran is a great democracy as good or better than the U.S. so two elections where the same candidate gets about the same percentage of the vote is proof the election was fair??? 05-nono
Again, they make no such claim.
Quote:Although Iran’s elections are not free by Western standards, the Islamic Republic has a 30-year history of highly contested and competitive elections at the presidential, parliamentary and local levels.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:This ignores the fact there was a larger turnout for this election.
They address this issue.
Quote:The “Iran experts” further argue that the high turnout on June 12 — 82 percent of the electorate — had to favor Mousavi. But this line of analysis reflects nothing more than assumptions.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:Iran's economy is horrible.
And this one.
Quote:American “Iran experts” assumed that “disastrous” economic conditions in Iran would undermine Ahmadinejad’s reelection prospects. But the International Monetary Fund projects that Iran’s economy will actually grow modestly this year (when the economies of most Gulf Arab states are in recession). A significant number of Iranians — including the religiously pious, lower-income groups, civil servants and pensioners — appear to believe that Ahmadinejad’s policies have benefited them.

And, while many Iranians complain about inflation, the TFT poll found that most Iranian voters do not hold Ahmadinejad responsible.


THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:Iran's standing in the world is blemished, well except in President Hussein's eyes.
This one too.
Quote:Similarly, Ahmadinejad’s criticism that Mousavi’s reformist supporters, including Khatami, had been willing to suspend Iran’s uranium enrichment program and had won nothing from the West for doing so tapped into popular support for the program — and had the added advantage of being true.


You also conveniently ignored this
Quote:Before the debates, both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad campaign aides indicated privately that they perceived a surge of support for Mousavi; after the debates, the same aides concluded that Ahmadinejad’s provocatively impressive performance and Mousavi’s desultory one had boosted the incumbent’s standing. Ahmadinejad’s charge that Mousavi was supported by Rafsanjani’s sons — widely perceived in Iranian society as corrupt figures — seemed to play well with voters.

And this
Quote:But the one poll conducted before Friday’s election by a Western organization that was transparent about its methodology — a telephone poll carried out by the Washington-based Terror-Free Tomorrow from May 11 to 20 — found Ahmadinejad running 20 points ahead of Mousavi.
Of course, I believe something like 57% of the respondents were still undecided, so it's not the most convincing of polls.

Would you care to actually address any of their points?

Sure... Liberal view of Iran's election. :goodnight:
06-16-2009 08:33 PM
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jh Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 08:33 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Sure... Liberal view of Iran's election. :goodnight:

So that would be a no. Why am I not surprised.
06-16-2009 09:40 PM
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At Ease Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-16-2009 06:06 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch.

What do you think he should do? The minute we interject ourselves into the matter, we provide a convenient distraction for the mullahs to divert the attention of Iranians away from the thuggery and faux democracy drawing their ire now.
06-17-2009 11:28 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-17-2009 11:28 AM)At Ease Wrote:  
(06-16-2009 06:06 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch.

What do you think he should do? The minute we interject ourselves into the matter, we provide a convenient distraction for the mullahs to divert the attention of Iranians away from the thuggery and faux democracy drawing their ire now.
Nuke 'em.
06-17-2009 12:12 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
[Image: SluaPp6yQos91chqqmeh4MnMo1_500.gif]

Then there is this view (not linked)
Stratfor had an interesting piece on this a couple of days ago. Their thought was that the election in Iran was probably more legitimate than current western perception.
The thoughts as they outlined them were simple:
1. It's very hard to poll most of the iranian population since outside the cities it would have to be door to door since most rural folks don't have access to phones.
2. The rural folks tend to be more devoutly islamic which means they would not support a pro-western candidate.
3. Folks that interface with Iranians from outside seldom speak farsi so they limit themselves to the English speakers which biases their perceptions strongly toward a pro-western position.
06-17-2009 12:27 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
Among other things, the Supreme Leader manipulates the election by restricting who runs for election to only Hezbollah thugs.

According to my Iranian friends, no-one in Iran is protesting in favor of Mousavi - they know he is a thug and they know he has blood on his hands. This election provides an excuse for them to protest against the regime. From what I've heard, the Hezbollah - the "ninja" - are pretty much attacking anyone in the streets indiscriminately. The people are afraid to leave their homes. Our friend characterized this as worse violence than the Islamic Revolution, but she is prone to hyperbole (and this is in the information age, so it may well be that things appear far worse now when in actuality they are not).

If you want a description of how and why the regime manipulates the election, check here: The Voting Manipulation Industry in Iran.

Iran is a police state. The assertion that this is anything like a free and fair election is an absolute farce, starting with the slate of candidates.
06-17-2009 02:42 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-17-2009 11:28 AM)At Ease Wrote:  
(06-16-2009 06:06 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch.

What do you think he should do? The minute we interject ourselves into the matter, we provide a convenient distraction for the mullahs to divert the attention of Iranians away from the thuggery and faux democracy drawing their ire now.

Just provide some covert funding for communications equipment, cell phones, sat phones, streaming video transmitters, stuff that broadcasts what happens at these protests.
06-17-2009 04:03 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-17-2009 12:12 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-17-2009 11:28 AM)At Ease Wrote:  
(06-16-2009 06:06 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Iranians are now having a partial recount. Ha! That wont work giving the alleged "margin of victory".

:muttering: And what is Obamagog doing? Zilch.

What do you think he should do? The minute we interject ourselves into the matter, we provide a convenient distraction for the mullahs to divert the attention of Iranians away from the thuggery and faux democracy drawing their ire now.
Nuke 'em.


Wow!!! Robbie, are you starting to come around to mainstream thinking??? 05-stirthepot 04-nuke
06-17-2009 06:15 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
I predict that in a month....this all will be a forgotten story. Iran will still be in control of tyranny...just as America is. Neither populace is ready to do what it takes to achieve liberty in their lifetimes.05-stirthepot
06-17-2009 08:05 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
(06-17-2009 08:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I predict that in a month....this all will be a forgotten story. Iran will still be in control of tyranny...just as America is. Neither populace is ready to do what it takes to achieve liberty in their lifetimes.05-stirthepot

Give me a couple+ of million bucks to stir the pot 05-stirthepot some video equipment, communications equipment, some internet and shortwave access, and some F-ing politicians that aren't afraid to piss off the Iranian Mullahs, and I can have you an Iranian Revolution in a couple of months.

Its kinda hard to revolt against the Mullahs when the Revolutionary Guards have the weapons... and the protesters are unarmed. You need to show how the Iranian Revolutionary Guards are brutally repressing the people. busting heads, killing people., etc.

You need to show how brutal the ruling forces are.. enough so the Iranian military somehow "donates" weapons to the opposition.. you just need a few automatic and semi-automatic weapons...

Turn the protests into a Media Event.. the covertly supplied cameras broadcast it all out of Iran.. The "peaceful protests" turn into a firefight.

You demonstrate legit resistance to the mullahs and you will have all of the Non Persian Middle East helping out.

Someone just has to have the balls to send the money and pull the trigger.
06-17-2009 09:01 PM
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cb4029 Offline
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RE: Liberal view of Iran's election...
[Image: day-i-ran.jpg]

[Image: ahmahandjob-aces.jpg]

[Image: obama-bush-soul.JPG]
06-18-2009 09:55 AM
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