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Breaking news in evolutionary biology
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DrTorch Offline
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Breaking news in evolutionary biology
They were wrong again.
03-banghead

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...092055.htm

Quote:It's been known for decades that the femur, or thigh bone in birds is largely fixed and makes birds into "knee runners," unlike virtually all other land animals, the OSU experts say. What was just discovered, however, is that it's this fixed position of bird bones and musculature that keeps their air-sac lung from collapsing when the bird inhales.

Warm-blooded birds need about 20 times more oxygen than cold-blooded reptiles, and have evolved a unique lung structure that allows for a high rate of gas exchange and high activity level. Their unusual thigh complex is what helps support the lung and prevent its collapse.

"This is fundamental to bird physiology," said Devon Quick, an OSU instructor of zoology who completed this work as part of her doctoral studies. "It's really strange that no one realized this before. The position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their lung function, which in turn is what gives them enough lung capacity for flight."

Almost like it was designed that way! Eerie.

Quote:"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."

*GASP* No way! Some evolutionists hold to theories shown to be unlikely? I never would have guessed that!

Good thing science is self-correcting. That way you can always trust it...even when it's wrong.
06-12-2009 12:57 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-12-2009 12:57 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  They were wrong again.
03-banghead

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...092055.htm

Quote:It's been known for decades that the femur, or thigh bone in birds is largely fixed and makes birds into "knee runners," unlike virtually all other land animals, the OSU experts say. What was just discovered, however, is that it's this fixed position of bird bones and musculature that keeps their air-sac lung from collapsing when the bird inhales.

Warm-blooded birds need about 20 times more oxygen than cold-blooded reptiles, and have evolved a unique lung structure that allows for a high rate of gas exchange and high activity level. Their unusual thigh complex is what helps support the lung and prevent its collapse.

"This is fundamental to bird physiology," said Devon Quick, an OSU instructor of zoology who completed this work as part of her doctoral studies. "It's really strange that no one realized this before. The position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their lung function, which in turn is what gives them enough lung capacity for flight."

Almost like it was designed that way! Eerie.

Quote:"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."

*GASP* No way! Some evolutionists hold to theories shown to be unlikely? I never would have guessed that!

Good thing science is self-correcting. That way you can always trust it...even when it's wrong.
Oh. I thought someone did some experiments on you and came to the conclusion the little animal found recently was not the missing link but you are.

I am not sure where I have heard of this but I would swear this has been around for sometime. The only thing is I don't think it was a bird they were talking about when I heard about it(though it might have).
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2009 01:18 PM by RobertN.)
06-12-2009 01:16 PM
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GRPunk Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.
06-12-2009 01:25 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
Oh. I thought [/quote]

Known to be untrue. No need to read the rest.
06-12-2009 01:43 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-12-2009 01:43 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:16 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
Oh. I thought

Known to be untrue. No need to read the rest.
[/quote]Isn't the 700 Club on?
06-12-2009 02:02 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
Quote:The position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their lung function, which in turn is what gives them enough lung capacity for flight."

I'd say it's the aerodynamic wings, body, tail and light weight gives a bird the capicity to fly, lung function gives them endurance - if humans could increase their lung capicity we still couldn't fly.

I believe in evolution and this could be explained as being a needed component, mutated from a different one, that allowed birds to fly longer. I would also ask (I didn't read the article entirely) if non-flying birds or birds that do not make legnthy flights possess this trait. If they do, then why since they don't fly?
06-12-2009 08:50 PM
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mtk1210 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
No, God gives birds the ability fly.
06-12-2009 11:11 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.
06-13-2009 08:43 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.
03-lmfao Intelligent design HAS to be involved? I suggest you lay off the "Jesus 24/7" tv stations for a while.
06-13-2009 09:10 AM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 09:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.
03-lmfao Intelligent design HAS to be involved? I suggest you lay off the "Jesus 24/7" tv stations for a while.

Um, Robbie, the Big Bang can only happen once by itself, IF it were ever to happen again, it would destroy the universe. Attempting to replicate a small scale demonstration in a laboratory means "Intelligent" designers were involved in DESIGNING the experiment, even though the "Intelligent" designers are trying to disprove Intelligent Design.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2009 10:43 AM by THE NC Herd Fan.)
06-13-2009 10:29 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 10:29 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 09:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.
03-lmfao Intelligent design HAS to be involved? I suggest you lay off the "Jesus 24/7" tv stations for a while.

Um, Robbie, the Big Bang can only happen once by itself, IF it were ever to happen again, it would destroy the universe. Attempting to replicate a small scale demonstration in a laboratory means "Intelligent" designers were involved in DESIGNING the experiment, even though the "Intelligent" designers are trying to disprove Intelligent Design.
Do you have the math/science to back up that it can only happen once? How do you know this is the only universe?
06-13-2009 07:19 PM
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GRPunk Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.

I don't think the purpose is to disprove religion. Many phenomena were once chalked up to acts of God. The more we know about how and why things happen, the better in my book.
06-13-2009 07:36 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 07:19 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 10:29 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 09:10 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.
03-lmfao Intelligent design HAS to be involved? I suggest you lay off the "Jesus 24/7" tv stations for a while.

Um, Robbie, the Big Bang can only happen once by itself, IF it were ever to happen again, it would destroy the universe. Attempting to replicate a small scale demonstration in a laboratory means "Intelligent" designers were involved in DESIGNING the experiment, even though the "Intelligent" designers are trying to disprove Intelligent Design.
Do you have the math/science to back up that it can only happen once? How do you know this is the only universe?

Nope, and neither does any "Scientist" that's why it's called a theory.
06-13-2009 07:41 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 07:36 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.

I don't think the purpose is to disprove religion. Many phenomena were once chalked up to acts of God. The more we know about how and why things happen, the better in my book.

I just think spending time on evolution and big bang theories is somewhat of a waste of time. Instead of trying to prove the big bang theory develop technology to send a manned mission to Mars, or put a satellite in orbit around a star to send back up close data about the star and any orbiting planets. Stop trying to prove that man came from apes and study genetics in general to develop technology for tissue regeneration or other medical benefits.
06-13-2009 07:46 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 07:46 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 07:36 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.

I don't think the purpose is to disprove religion. Many phenomena were once chalked up to acts of God. The more we know about how and why things happen, the better in my book.

I just think spending time on evolution and big bang theories is somewhat of a waste of time. Instead of trying to prove the big bang theory develop technology to send a manned mission to Mars, or put a satellite in orbit around a star to send back up close data about the star and any orbiting planets. Stop trying to prove that man came from apes and study genetics in general to develop technology for tissue regeneration or other medical benefits.

Way too much expense to send someone to Mars, especially when we're trying to cut budgets! Besides the fact that we don't have a way to shield astronauts from long term exposure to cosmic rays. We can find evidence related to the big bang without leaving the earth, or at least earth's orbit. And the (a) big bang may have happened more than once - we could be in a cyclical universe and not know it.

Do you know how long it would take to get a spacecraft to even the closest star (besides the sun)?

If we're going to develop new technology, a major emphasis should be on alternative energies.
06-14-2009 11:41 AM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-13-2009 07:41 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Nope, and neither does any "Scientist" that's why it's called a theory.

Gravity is also just a "theory".
06-14-2009 11:46 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-14-2009 11:46 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 07:41 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Nope, and neither does any "Scientist" that's why it's called a theory.

Gravity is also just a "theory".

You should stop embarassing yourself.
http://www.verizon.net/central/vzc.porta...%20gravity
06-14-2009 12:22 PM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-14-2009 12:22 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(06-14-2009 11:46 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 07:41 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Nope, and neither does any "Scientist" that's why it's called a theory.

Gravity is also just a "theory".

You should stop embarassing yourself.
http://www.verizon.net/central/vzc.porta...%20gravity

Are you saying its not? Gravity itself is a scientific "law", but its explained via a "theory".
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2009 12:38 PM by niuhuskie84.)
06-14-2009 12:34 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
(06-14-2009 11:41 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 07:46 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 07:36 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  
(06-13-2009 08:43 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(06-12-2009 01:25 PM)GRPunk Wrote:  Might as well quit looking for explanations and chalk it all up to creationism.

What is the purpose of trying to prove evolution, to disprove most religions? Same can be said proving the "Big Bang Theory" which can never be proven since intelligent design has to be involved to simulate what is believed to have caused the Big Bang.

I don't think the purpose is to disprove religion. Many phenomena were once chalked up to acts of God. The more we know about how and why things happen, the better in my book.

I just think spending time on evolution and big bang theories is somewhat of a waste of time. Instead of trying to prove the big bang theory develop technology to send a manned mission to Mars, or put a satellite in orbit around a star to send back up close data about the star and any orbiting planets. Stop trying to prove that man came from apes and study genetics in general to develop technology for tissue regeneration or other medical benefits.

Way too much expense to send someone to Mars, especially when we're trying to cut budgets! Besides the fact that we don't have a way to shield astronauts from long term exposure to cosmic rays. We can find evidence related to the big bang without leaving the earth, or at least earth's orbit. And the (a) big bang may have happened more than once - we could be in a cyclical universe and not know it.

Do you know how long it would take to get a spacecraft to even the closest star (besides the sun)?

If we're going to develop new technology, a major emphasis should be on alternative energies.

Don't you think the technology to send a spacecraft to another star would involve alternative energies? Not going to do it with fossil fuel or current nuclear technology.

Without external forces there is a finite amount of matter and energy in the universe, so more than one big bang is not likely (IMHO as unlikely as the first). Many scientists who support the Big Bang Theory believe we live in a slowly dying universe that will some day run out of energy.
06-14-2009 01:28 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Breaking news in evolutionary biology
It just gets better. From the original article
Quote: It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later."

But today on "Live Science" (oddly enough, not run by scientists)
Quote:Bird wings clearly share ancestry with dinosaur "hands" or forelimbs. A school kid can see it in the bones.

So next time some science teacher tells you what we "know" about fossils and evolution, take it w/ a grain of salt.
06-17-2009 04:14 PM
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