I want to waterboard TroyW and Paul of Troy for quoting every damn post in their replies. We know what has been said by that point, and we know what you are responding to. No need to have a string of a dozen posts in yours, to add one thing in response.

Moved here from the SunBelt boards as I didnt realize there was a forum dedicated to these types of topics.

the US waterboarded a grand total of 3 Al-Qaeda high Operations level terrorist, including KSM.

T H R E E

How many Journalist and oddballs have submitted themselves voluntarily to the practice so they could then write about how horrible it was(telling in itself as to the 'torture' vs. interrogation technique) angle? I don't see them submitting themselves to Al-Qaeda or Saddam's idea of torture. Of course without hands to write with, or toungues to talk with, it would make it kinda hard to cash in.

(05-28-2009 10:10 AM)GGniner Wrote:  the US waterboarded a grand total of 3 Al-Qaeda high Operations level terrorist, including KSM.

T H R E E

How many Journalist and oddballs have submitted themselves voluntarily to the practice so they could then write about how horrible it was(telling in itself as to the 'torture' vs. interrogation technique) angle? I don't see them submitting themselves to Al-Qaeda or Saddam's idea of torture. Of course without hands to write with, or toungues to talk with, it would make it kinda hard to cash in.

63 posts before anyone says only 3 people were waterboarded. It took a presidential order for those 3 to be waterboarded. It was supervised by a doctor to protect life. Reading these posts makes it seem like everyone captured was waterboarded. And those who participated in the Abu Ghraib prison pictures were severely punished. This is one of those situations where liberals just throw it up against the wall to see what sticks.

Is waterboarding torture? It is a matter of opinion. Did the CIA have the authority? Yes, it would seem they did. Was any actionable intelligence gleaned from it, that saved lives? Cheney says "YES", Obama redacted the memos he released.

Now about War. It's horrible. The horror of 911, we lost 3000 innocent people. The horror of the death of our Military, the protectors of freedom, is horrible. To win any war, ALL AMERICANS have to embrace the horror of war. Otherwise our enemies, no matter how out gunned they are, are stronger and will win. Has anyone noticed that the media is not bringing the war to your living room every night anymore? We are being mislead by the MSM.

If we were fighting WWII today, I doubt we would win. We do not trust our political leaders. And many people hate the military. And the MSM is clearly biased.

Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

As for the above pictures, they're nothing when compared to the Daniel Pearl video.

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

As for the above pictures, they're nothing when compared to the Daniel Pearl video.

Mancow gave up....He had that choice. It is torture and we should be above this as a nation. In any event...It's over now and I doubt it will be used again. Steve.. I really do not think you believe that waterboarding would be doing someone a favor. I get your joke.

(05-28-2009 10:50 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 10:10 AM)GGniner Wrote:  the US waterboarded a grand total of 3 Al-Qaeda high Operations level terrorist, including KSM.

T H R E E

How many Journalist and oddballs have submitted themselves voluntarily to the practice so they could then write about how horrible it was(telling in itself as to the 'torture' vs. interrogation technique) angle? I don't see them submitting themselves to Al-Qaeda or Saddam's idea of torture. Of course without hands to write with, or toungues to talk with, it would make it kinda hard to cash in.

63 posts before anyone says only 3 people were waterboarded. It took a presidential order for those 3 to be waterboarded. It was supervised by a doctor to protect life. Reading these posts makes it seem like everyone captured was waterboarded. And those who participated in the Abu Ghraib prison pictures were severely punished. This is one of those situations where liberals just throw it up against the wall to see what sticks.

Is waterboarding torture? It is a matter of opinion. Did the CIA have the authority? Yes, it would seem they did. Was any actionable intelligence gleaned from it, that saved lives? Cheney says "YES", Obama redacted the memos he released.

Now about War. It's horrible. The horror of 911, we lost 3000 innocent people. The horror of the death of our Military, the protectors of freedom, is horrible. To win any war, ALL AMERICANS have to embrace the horror of war. Otherwise our enemies, no matter how out gunned they are, are stronger and will win. Has anyone noticed that the media is not bringing the war to your living room every night anymore? We are being mislead by the MSM.

If we were fighting WWII today, I doubt we would win. We do not trust our political leaders. And many people hate the military. And the MSM is clearly biased.

FTR..I respect and admire the members of the military...I cant stand the policies of the leaders that send them into harms way. Damn the politicians!

(05-28-2009 10:10 AM)GGniner Wrote:  the US waterboarded a grand total of 3 Al-Qaeda high Operations level terrorist, including KSM.

T H R E E

How many Journalist and oddballs have submitted themselves voluntarily to the practice so they could then write about how horrible it was(telling in itself as to the 'torture' vs. interrogation technique) angle? I don't see them submitting themselves to Al-Qaeda or Saddam's idea of torture. Of course without hands to write with, or toungues to talk with, it would make it kinda hard to cash in.

ONE...is wrong.

(05-28-2009 04:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

As for the above pictures, they're nothing when compared to the Daniel Pearl video.

Mancow gave up....He had that choice. It is torture and we should be above this as a nation. In any event...It's over now and I doubt it will be used again. Steve.. I really do not think you believe that waterboarding would be doing someone a favor. I get your joke.

Fo, anyone who tortures or causes pain for fun is a cruel sadist. If we waterboarded a guy one time and he gave us info based on the threat of doing it again, well, I see no problem with that. I think our CIA's most important mission was to gather info rather than exact revenge or dish out justice. With that in mind, when the waterboarded terrorist gave up and started singing the waterboarding probably stopped.

(05-28-2009 04:20 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 04:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

As for the above pictures, they're nothing when compared to the Daniel Pearl video.

Mancow gave up....He had that choice. It is torture and we should be above this as a nation. In any event...It's over now and I doubt it will be used again. Steve.. I really do not think you believe that waterboarding would be doing someone a favor. I get your joke.

Fo, anyone who tortures or causes pain for fun is a cruel sadist. If we waterboarded a guy one time and he gave us info based on the threat of doing it again, well, I see no problem with that. I think our CIA's most important mission was to gather info rather than exact revenge or dish out justice. With that in mind, when the waterboarded terrorist gave up and started singing the waterboarding probably stopped.

I understand...I just do not trust ANYONE in government not to be a sadist.

(05-28-2009 04:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 04:20 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 04:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

As for the above pictures, they're nothing when compared to the Daniel Pearl video.

Mancow gave up....He had that choice. It is torture and we should be above this as a nation. In any event...It's over now and I doubt it will be used again. Steve.. I really do not think you believe that waterboarding would be doing someone a favor. I get your joke.

Fo, anyone who tortures or causes pain for fun is a cruel sadist. If we waterboarded a guy one time and he gave us info based on the threat of doing it again, well, I see no problem with that. I think our CIA's most important mission was to gather info rather than exact revenge or dish out justice. With that in mind, when the waterboarded terrorist gave up and started singing the waterboarding probably stopped.

I understand...I just do not trust ANYONE in government not to be a sadist.

I believe it's one of the job requirements.

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

First of all, he stopped at 6 or 7 seconds because he had the luxury of doing so. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, each of which could "technically" last as long as 40 seconds.

Secondly, whos to say the terrorist would give up accurate info? In all likelihood, after being subjected to these types of tactics they would probably give up bad information or lies to make the torture stop.

Additionally, numerous members of the intelligence community have been vocal about the ineffectiveness of waterboarding

Quote:Ali Soufan, a former FBI counterterrorism agent and interrogator, testified that President George W. Bush and Justice Department lawyers were wrong when they said that waterboarding and other tactics used on one suspect provided some key pieces of intelligence about al-Qaida following the Sept. 11 attacks.

Testifying behind a screen to protect his identity, Soufan said the techniques touted by the Bush administration as perhaps its most effective weapon against terrorism were actually slow, ineffective and unreliable. He said that he and a CIA agent gleaned much if not all of the critical information from suspected al-Qaida chieftain Abu Zubaydah before the coercive techniques were initiated.

http://www.military.com/news/article/ex-...6032320397

Quote:Two witnesses with substantial military experience told a U.S. House subcommittee in no uncertain terms today that waterboarding is not only torture but an ineffective method of obtaining information from terrorism suspects. A third military witness on active duty was expected to testify but was barred from doing so by the Pentagon.

Additionally, the two witnesses both attributed the U.S. decision to use waterboarding on some terrorism suspects to military higher-ups who have watched too many television dramas on the topic and have little real-life experience with conducting interrogations, reports CBS News.

Such "coercive" interrogation techniques aren't as effective as those that persuade suspects to cooperate, because harsher methods often elicit false information, Col. Steven Kleinman told a House Judiciary constitutional subcommittee today. He is a senior intelligence officer and military interrogator for the U.S. Air Force Reserves.

http://abajournal.com/news/waterboarding...ouse_pane/

(05-31-2009 09:40 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

First of all, he stopped at 6 or 7 seconds because he had the luxury of doing so. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, each of which could "technically" last as long as 40 seconds.

These terrorists had the luxury of choosing not to highjack planes and kill 3000 people but they chose to. The people who died had no such luxury. I have no sympathy for them. Another thing, Mancow is a celebrity and not a hardened terrorist full of hate and being capable of belonging to a group who would kill innocent people for who knows what reason. In a waterboarding environment who do you think would give up first?

Quote:Secondly, whos to say the terrorist would give up accurate info? In all likelihood, after being subjected to these types of tactics they would probably give up bad information or lies to make the torture stop.

I sure we had pros evaluating the terrorists and determined if the nice cop approach would work better than the bad cop approach. Why should we handicap ourselves by not using every club in the bag? I'd bet that any info gathered from the interrogations had to be verified by an outside source. Agree?

Quote:Additionally, numerous members of the intelligence community have been vocal about the ineffectiveness of waterboarding

And many people have also said it was effective, including our vice president.

(05-31-2009 10:03 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(05-31-2009 09:40 PM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2009 11:22 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Mancow gave up after 6 or 7 seconds - he walks away with no harm done to him and his head is still attached to his body. After that I'm assuming he would have gave up whatever he knew to avoid having it happen to him again. This is not torture, this is doing him a favor by not having to repeatedly beat the info out of him. 6 seconds. A visit to the dentist lasts longer than that.

First of all, he stopped at 6 or 7 seconds because he had the luxury of doing so. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, each of which could "technically" last as long as 40 seconds.

These terrorists had the luxury of choosing not to highjack planes and kill 3000 people but they chose to. The people who died had no such luxury. I have no sympathy for them. Another thing, Mancow is a celebrity and not a hardened terrorist full of hate and being capable of belonging to a group who would kill innocent people for who knows what reason. In a waterboarding environment who do you think would give up first?

Quote:Secondly, whos to say the terrorist would give up accurate info? In all likelihood, after being subjected to these types of tactics they would probably give up bad information or lies to make the torture stop.

I sure we had pros evaluating the terrorists and determined if the nice cop approach would work better than the bad cop approach. Why should we handicap ourselves by not using every club in the bag? I'd bet that any info gathered from the interrogations had to be verified by an outside source. Agree?

Quote:Additionally, numerous members of the intelligence community have been vocal about the ineffectiveness of waterboarding

And many people have also said it was effective, including our vice president.

I think its incorrect to say KSM was "waterboarded 183" times. Mike Baker, a former CIA Agent, says the document indicates that 183 pours of water were made.. not that he was waterboarded 183 separate times.

Anyway, all the information obtained was verified. When it was discovered that KSM lied, the next time he had MORE water poured on him. That will teach the SOB to lie.

Anyway, KSM confessed in Open Court to all charges in front of the Military Commission and after having assistance of Defense Counsel. I don't know why we are wasting any more time. Pull out the gurney and get the saline. Its time for a lethal injection.

.

You know all you "Feel Good PC Bleeding Hearts for the Terrorist Idiots" can Water Board your selves to see how it really feels.

When you are in your bathtub taking your monthly bath, just put a wash cloth over your face so that is covers your mouth and nose with no air gaps to outside air.

And simply tilt your heads back and pure water on the wash cloth from a gallon jug.

And do try not to Drown Your Selves huh .....

See if you can out last "Mancow" .... what a buff Spec Op's type of guy he is after all ...

.