(05-20-2009 05:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 09:15 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  So now its convenient to stand on the principals of the Constitution. But the Constitutional requirement the ObamaMessiah be a "natural born citizen" you laugh at. GEEZEEE man, you are so predictable.

I don't recall laughing at the requirement....I do laugh at those that are obsessed with that particular issue.

You have no cred because you are hypocritical on constitutional matters.

(05-19-2009 10:21 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 09:59 PM)I45owl Wrote:  But, I still have to ask what the purpose is. I don't really believe that deterrence is a big factor.

Purpose = Justice

as for Deterrence, I don't know how you figure up how much of a deterrence it is but there is a deterrence.

Make the Death Penalty applicable to speeding and start enforcing it and watch how drivers react on the road..

They'd start shooting police officers on sight.

Well, my initial reaction to seeing traffic in Shanghai is that it's amazing the influence that the gun culture in America has on the civility of drivers.

The problem comes with how to deter a young, uneducated idiot. Whilst I don't think they're impressed much by statistics, I don't think executing maybe 200/300,000,000 citizens every year makes quite as much an impression as having weekly public hangings in the village square. Would the death penalty really have deterred a father on PCP from eating his son's eyeballs? The death penalty doesn't apply to taking PCP, so I don't know at what point it would become a deterrent in a case like this.

There is really a big philosophical question about our justice system that remains unresolved, IMHO. The prison system in this country has gone back and forth between two+ charters - "rehabilitation" and "punishment and deterrence". In general, I think we've done a terrible job of being consistent with those purposes. I don't think either of these by themselves is satisfactory.

By saying the purpose is "justice", you have to elaborate on what is "just". By saying the purpose of the justice system is "justice", you're not directly addressing this question. But, the way I read it is that your answer is "retribution".

(05-20-2009 06:19 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-20-2009 05:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 09:15 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  So now its convenient to stand on the principals of the Constitution. But the Constitutional requirement the ObamaMessiah be a "natural born citizen" you laugh at. GEEZEEE man, you are so predictable.

I don't recall laughing at the requirement....I do laugh at those that are obsessed with that particular issue.

You have no cred because you are hypocritical on constitutional matters.

But, he's generally consistent on issues of principle, which should count for something.

Justice, retribution, revenge, punishment deterrence. Lets quit parsing words here. The original universal premise must be that some people just need killing. I'm not talking Stalin or Hitler style of killing, or killing someone who is trying to kill you, I'm talking about people who murder, is then brought to court, tried and judged by a jury of their peers, then sentenced to death. Otherwise people will take justice into their own hands, without fear of being executed by the state.

I think every person old enough to commit a capital offense has certainly heard of the death penalty so there should be no surprise or outrage when it's imposed, they knew what the stakes were, gambled and lost. Expand the death penalty and I'm pretty sure the number of those offenses will drop.

.

I have watched our country become so bogged down in PC'ism over Death Penalty Cases, that the average stay in Death Row went from 1 to 3 years, to nowadays, 12 to 20 years and even longer if the Convicted has the money to keep appeals going.

I don't understand why we sentence a man to Death, then give him 20+ Years to sit on Death Row and play Political Correct Games with the System at the cost of Hundreds of Millions of Dollars.

If he is Truly Guilty and all the Proper and Just Evidence has been presented and reviewed and upon the weight that evidence, a Jury or Judge sentenced the person to Death by what ever means, then they should get that single Automatic Appeal and one Appeal to the SCOTUS and that is all.

The circus we have going on now is just slapping us in the face with PC Folly and these Convicts know this.

Either put them to death in a timely manner or abolish the Death Penalty so it will stop wasting time and money that is needed else where.

.

(05-20-2009 06:19 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-20-2009 05:33 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 09:15 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  So now its convenient to stand on the principals of the Constitution. But the Constitutional requirement the ObamaMessiah be a "natural born citizen" you laugh at. GEEZEEE man, you are so predictable.

I don't recall laughing at the requirement....I do laugh at those that are obsessed with that particular issue.

You have no cred because you are hypocritical on constitutional matters.

I'm sorry my friend......Ive never disputed the constitutional issue you are obsessed with. I just think this pursuit is a exercise in futility and a waste of time and energy. Good luck in your mission.

(05-20-2009 10:54 AM)Tripster Wrote:  .

I have watched our country become so bogged down in PC'ism over Death Penalty Cases, that the average stay in Death Row went from 1 to 3 years, to nowadays, 12 to 20 years and even longer if the Convicted has the money to keep appeals going.

I don't understand why we sentence a man to Death, then give him 20+ Years to sit on Death Row and play Political Correct Games with the System at the cost of Hundreds of Millions of Dollars.

If he is Truly Guilty and all the Proper and Just Evidence has been presented and reviewed and upon the weight that evidence, a Jury or Judge sentenced the person to Death by what ever means, then they should get that single Automatic Appeal and one Appeal to the SCOTUS and that is all.

The circus we have going on now is just slapping us in the face with PC Folly and these Convicts know this.

Either put them to death in a timely manner or abolish the Death Penalty so it will stop wasting time and money that is needed else where.

.

Trip,

Out here there are very few death penalty lawyers and that's part of the reason for the long wait. And unless the convicted person is rich I'm the guy footing part of his defense costs.

I think the real injustice lies in the fact that many of victim's family members often die before the murderer who was sentenced to death. That's not justice.

Another thing is that if a guy gets sentenced to death at the age of 25 and his eventual execution date is 25 years later when he's 50 then he's certainly not the same person who was convicted. When this happens I believe it's a little unfair. My solution is to execute them much sooner and before they find God or what ever....

Let me edit my post from above. I believe that there should be equal punishment with equal haste for violent crimes. If you maim someone, you get maimed back. An eye for an eye. The only thing about the death penalty is that, in time, new technologies arise and we might find that the convicted person isn't guilty. That alone has put a bunch of innocent people to death.

(05-20-2009 11:34 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Trip,

Out here there are very few death penalty lawyers and that's part of the reason for the long wait. And unless the convicted person is rich I'm the guy footing part of his defense costs.

I think the real injustice lies in the fact that many of victim's family members often die before the murderer who was sentenced to death. That's not justice.

Another thing is that if a guy gets sentenced to death at the age of 25 and his eventual execution date is 25 years later when he's 50 then he's certainly not the same person who was convicted. When this happens I believe it's a little unfair. My solution is to execute them much sooner and before they find God or what ever....

Just a few hours after making the above post I open up my local newspaper and see this:

Quote:Diana Vandenberg spent more than 20 years waiting for her 11-year-old son's murderer to be executed, closely following years of appeals through the state and federal court systems.

But she will never know if Horace Kelly, on death row at San Quentin since 1986, will be put to death.

Vandenberg, 54, died early Sunday after her motorcycle collided with a Jeep near her home in Hemet.

Kelly killed Vandenberg's son, Daniel Osentowski, on Thanksgiving night 1984 during an attempt to kidnap the boy's 13-year-old cousin, Shannon Prock.

Dressed in the security guard uniform he wore for work, Kelly stalked them along Limonite Avenue in Jurupa Hills. When Kelly tried to grab Shannon, Daniel fought him off. Kelly shot the boy in the chest and point-blank in the face.

Kelly also killed two San Bernardino women in sexual attacks around the same time.

Read the rest of this story here

I agree that the Death Penalty is not a deterrence at all. Of course if executions were televised, it might.

(05-19-2009 09:50 PM)Rebel Wrote:  For all the liberals that say, "The death penalty isn't a deterrent", well, it is for that scumbag, isn't it?

Yep, the death penalty is gonna make a guy high on PCP stop and think about his actions.

(05-20-2009 04:30 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 09:50 PM)Rebel Wrote:  For all the liberals that say, "The death penalty isn't a deterrent", well, it is for that scumbag, isn't it?

Yep, the death penalty is gonna make a guy high on PCP stop and think about his actions.

Leave it to an liberal to not understand the point.

After he's turned into worm food, will he commit another crime? No? Well, I guess it deterred one idiot from committing another crime, didn't it?

Let's get really rediculous, take it a step further, and sterilize anyone who has criminal activity in their family's background. If you want to deter crime, make the penalty the execution of their entire family tree. That ought to deter criminals, now and in the future...

(05-20-2009 04:44 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Let's get really rediculous, take it a step further, and sterilize anyone who has criminal activity in their family's background. If you want to deter crime, make the penalty the execution of their entire family tree. That ought to deter criminals, now and in the future...

Crime isn't an inheritable trait.

We're talking about deterance here. If everyone is so ready to kill criminals, why stop there?

(05-20-2009 04:47 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  We're talking about deterance here. If everyone is so ready to kill criminals, why stop there?

Want some twine for that straw?

I think this needs rope. Twine just won't cut it. After all, we are talking rediculous extremes here...

(05-20-2009 05:08 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I think this needs rope. Twine just won't cut it. After all, we are talking rediculous extremes here...

You're the only one taking it to an extreme. Most of us want deterrence and justice if that doesn't work. Besides, sterilization doesn't work with crime, but it does work with Welfare. Are you on board?

I agree with you on welfare. I always have. It seems like they're the only ones who can afford large families anymore...

I think anyone unable to support themselves has no business raising children. All they're going to teach them is how to be useless...