http://climatesci.org/2009/05/04/is-the-...ony-watts/

So simple even Mach can understand it. But will he have the cojones to bring it up in class?

Of course still photography is no match for a NASA-produced, taxpayer funded DVD of animation...but the truth is still more useful than cartoons.

If you choose to believe the NASA DVD, then you probably need this as a reference:
http://www.gshotts.com/HUMOR/cartoonphysics.htm

You don't get any neat pictures to go along with "the facts"? I'll click on it anyways. Hopefully I can get something from it. Produced by Heritage or CATO?

I'm not interested in the usual banter. If you would like the DVD I would be more than happy to send it to you. It goes through 10 seperate issues surrounding global warming. I'll list the Chapters when I get to my computer. I'm using my cell phone right now. There's alot of confusion purposely placed around the issue. After I show the Chapters if there is one you would like to see I could even try to post it on here.

(05-13-2009 07:18 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'm not interested in the usual banter. If you would like the DVD I would be more than happy to send it to you. It goes through 10 seperate issues surrounding global warming. I'll list the Chapters when I get to my computer. I'm using my cell phone right now. There's alot of confusion purposely placed around the issue. After I show the Chapters if there is one you would like to see I could even try to post it on here.

DVD made my Al Gore? Yeah, now THAT'S a credible source right there.

(05-13-2009 07:18 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There's alot of confusion purposely placed around the issue.

Yes there is. How about you and Al knock it off?

It's not Al Gore. This one was produced by NASA climate scientist and it does a nice job of looking at climate. Here are the chapters.

1. A Different way of Understanding the Earth. It looks at science from sphere studies. Biosphere, Hydrosphere, Atmosphere, and the Lithosphere. Instead of geology, chemistry, biology. It wraps the disciplines together into spheres and how the spheres effect each other.

2. Earth' Grand Cycles

3.Energy in the Global System

4. Historical Perspective

5. Remote Sensing

6. Glacial Evidence

7. Meterological Evidence

8. Ice Core Evidence

9. Oceanographic Evidence

10. Biological Evidence

If any of you want the DVD just pm me.

Torch,

Your link has a couple of paragraphs on collecting stations. Was there more? Am I missing something?

Those stations are where we get the temp data from. They're broke. What don't you understand.

The ones placed near asphalt, outdoor lights, and AC condensers? Wow, now THAT'S accurate.

Global Warming Earth Worshiping belief is down around 30% now.

oh wait, its now called, correctly, "Climate Change" since the Warming part has put egg all over their faces.

the Earth has always warmed and cooled, we have a dynamic climate. Out of the chaos of the Universe, an Order always emerges.

What the global warming deniers try to do is slyly side-step the actual facts via coordinated responses of half truths.

Ok some collecting stations are near asphalt. That doesn't change the readings from ones that are not. Does that change Chapters 5-10 above? Of course not. This is putting clay into clear water. There are other man made gases that we are putting into our atmospher that are much better at trapping heat. Carbon Dioxide is just one.

When the Soviet Union fell, they had more important concerns than measuring stations. Thousands closed. Is it any surprise that between '89 and '92 when thousands of cold weather stations closed that the worlds temperature data would suddenly show a rise in temperature?

There was about 12,000 stations in '89, around 6,000 in '92.

Poor little Mach. Probably still believe in the Easter Bunny as well.

Here, I'll ease your mind a little. I ate the Easter Bunny last week with some mashed potatoes and gravy.

(05-13-2009 08:36 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ok some collecting stations are near asphalt. That doesn't change the readings from ones that are not.

Ahh, yes, it does.

If you put two stations under shade trees and a hundred years go by uneventful until lightning strikes one of those trees, are you really going to believe the temperature just went up?

If you have offices around the world reporting average per capita income to calculate a global average and one year all the offices in Africa shut down, would you believe the reports that the global average per capita income just went up? Of course you wouldn't.

You have people who are ignorant. You have a class of people who are pridefully ignorant. Then you have Reb and Paul. A whole 'nother level. I honestly tried to have a serious discussion. Easter Bunny................. gtfo

Have any of you seen Forgetting Sarah Marshall? That Elvis Snow environmental ballad is hilarius. Sodomize intolerance..................... "Do Something"

When the Soviet Union fell, they had more important concerns than measuring stations. Thousands closed. Is it any surprise that between '89 and '92 when thousands of cold weather stations closed that the worlds temperature data would suddenly show a rise in temperature?



Do you honestly think this is how Global Surface temperatures are recorded? Just take a bunch of stations and avg. them together? I'm going to excuse myself from this thread. Too many weeds in that garden.

I think I can propose an honest deal to broker to global warming debate

* We all agree that humans influence the earth.
* We mostly agree that the science shows a slight and gradual increase in the earth's temperature.
* We rarely agree on what is the cause of that increase.
* We never agree on what should be done.

Hence, we should move forward without penalizing companies and citizens for their current way of life, and work responsibly towards other means of generating electricity, farming methods, water conservation etc in ways that do not negatively impact the quality of life of human beings across the world, from the Sahara to Manhattan.

As an aside, I do not believe that mankind has impacted global temperatures in such a drastic way that we have to change Western Civilization. However, if the enviornmental movement can develop wind, solar, geothermal and other means of generating electricty, and the permaculture movement can develop Victory Garden-esqe farming techniques for everyone's backyard, and the clean water movement can show people how to cheaply and effeciently collect water in water barrels for watering plants, washing clothes etc, than I can ASSURE you that every Global Warming Denialist () will quickly jump on board, because it makes finanical sense, is easy to incorporate into a life filled with kids, soccer practice and a 9-5 yob, and most importantly, does not impact the way that I want to raise a family and live my life.

Interestingly, if the science of Global Warming really shows that carbon has zip zero nada impact on the health of this planet, I can ASSURE you that the enviornmental movement WILL NOT embrace anything other than their way of life.

You see, that is the big difference here - the vast majority of Global Warming Denialists () would gladly incorporate many aspects of the enviornmental movement into our lifestyles as long as it is not foistered on us upon threat of Imminent Global Disaster.

For instance, through long and thoughful convsersations around the firepit with my very greenie neighbor, he has convinced me to

*Grow a garden (actually, it's a hell of a lot of fun, and the food is awesome, and it saves me mullah)
*Install a rainbarrel (I use the water from the rainbarrel to water the garden, and it saves me mullah)
*Take the free mulch from the city, instead of purchasing from a garden center (saves me mullah)
*Buy pork and beef from a local farmer (we buy a full porker and a 1/2 cow and each lasts us 1 1/2 years, though the end is a lot of sausage and ground beef! Save us mullah after the initial investment)

I have convinced him to

*Ditch the hand pushed mower. What took him 1 hr to mow now takes him 20 min, plus he has a mulching mower with a side bagger, which gives him nitrogen rich mulch for his garden
*Understand that nuclear power is a viable source of renewable energy
*Not bike to work in the winter - he bough a little 4 cyl Mazda B2000 for snow days -

All in all, a fair tradeoff between two friends with really remarkably different ideas on politics and life, but brought together through a bit of an understanding that both sides have important views and suggestions to bring to the table

And that is what is missing from the Global Warming debate - a missing understanding that both sides have realistic ideas that can be incorporated into a long term solution. Right now, in my opinion, the Global Warming Alarmist side wants absolutly nothing to do with the other side's concerns or ideas, and while the Global Warming Denialists are open to suggestion on how to change, it won't happen at the expense of our way of life.

LS,
I agree. I think it is high time to get on the road and clean up our act. Using your logic I can understand why climate alarmists tend to lose (I should say - not want to debate, but politically correct, I am not) when they engage climate realists.

When Al Gore says that "the scientific debate is over", it really means "you cannot question Al Gore's reasoning", imagine that!!!!

(05-13-2009 09:22 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  When the Soviet Union fell, they had more important concerns than measuring stations. Thousands closed. Is it any surprise that between '89 and '92 when thousands of cold weather stations closed that the worlds temperature data would suddenly show a rise in temperature?



Do you honestly think this is how Global Surface temperatures are recorded? Just take a bunch of stations and avg. them together? I'm going to excuse myself from this thread. Too many weeds in that garden.

Facts doesn't jive with your false beliefs so you just excuse them. Common from your side.

Quote:I honestly tried to have a serious discussion.

No you didn't. You want others to agree with you. If they don't, you move along. Do you walk out of your classroom when children punk you, too?

Yep, I see the Global Warming Debate is SOLVED. Paul and Torch proved it. Our global surface temperatures are scewed because we didn't take into account the Russkies stations and too many near asphalt. Whew...... I'm glad that's solved. No crisis here folks... it's been averted. Move along now. Just move along.