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The peasant mentality lives on in America
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #1
The peasant mentality lives on in America
The peasant mentality lives on in America
Matt Taibbi

It took a good long while for news of the Teabag movement to penetrate the periphery of my consciousness — I kept hearing things about it and dismissing them, sure that the whole business was some kind of joke. Like a Daily Show invention, say. It pains me to say this as an American, but we are the only people on earth dumb enough to use a nationwide campaign of “teabag parties” as a form of mass protest, in the middle of a real economic crisis.

What’s next? The Great Dirty Sanchez-In of 2010? A Million Man Felch? (Insert Rusty Trombone joke here).

This must be a terrible time to be a right-winger. A vicious paradox has been thrust upon the once-ascendant conservatives. On the one hand they are out of power, and so must necessarily rail against the Obama administration. On the other hand they have to vilify, as dangerous anticapitalist activity, the grass-roots protests against the Geithner bailouts and the excess of companies like AIG. That leaves them with no recourse but to dream up wholesale lunacies along the lines of Glenn Beck’s recent “Fascism With a Happy Face” rants, which link the protesting “populists” and the Obama adminstration somehow and imagine them as one single nefarious, connected, ongoing effort to install a totalitarian regime.

This is not a simple rhetorical accomplishment. It requires serious mental gymnastics to describe the Obama administration — particularly the Obama administration of recent weeks, which has given away billions to Wall Street and bent over backwards to avoid nationalization and pursue a policy that preserves the private for-profit status of the bailed-out banks — as a militaristic dictatorship of anti-wealth, anti-private property forces. You have to somehow explain the Geithner/Paulson decisions to hand over trillions of taxpayer dollars to the rich bankers as the formal policy expression of progressive rage against the rich. Not easy. In order to pull off this argument, in fact, you have to grease the wheels with a lot of apocalyptic language and imagery, invoking as Beck did massive pictures of Stalin and Orwell and Mussolini (side by side with shots of Geithner, Obama and Bernanke), scenes of workers storming the Winter Palace interspersed with anti-AIG protests, etc. — and then maybe you have to add a crazy new twist, like switching from complaints of “socialism” to warnings of “fascism.” Rhetorically, this is the equivalent of trying to paint a picture by hurling huge handfuls of paint at the canvas. It’s desperate, last-ditch-ish behavior.

It’s been strange and kind of depressing to watch the conservative drift in this direction. In a way, actually, the Glenn Beck show has been drearily fascinating of late. It’s not often that we get to watch someone go insane on national television; trapped in an echo chamber of his own spiraling egomania, with apparently no one at his network willing to pull the plug and put him out of his misery, Beck has lately gone from being a mildly annoying media dingbat to a self-imagined messiah who looks like he’s shouldering more and more of the burdens of Christ with each passing day. And because he’s stepping into a vacuum of conservative leadership — there’s no one else out there who is offering real red meat to the winger crowd — he’s begun to attract not professional help but apostles, in the form of Chuck Norris (who believes we have to prepare for armed revolution and may prepare a run for “president of Texas”) and pinhead Midwestern congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, a woman who is looking more and more like George Foreman to Sarah Palin’s Joe Frazier in the Heavyweight Championship of Stupid. Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!

This new Holy Trinity of right-wing basket cases has been pushing all sorts of crazy hallucinations of late, from Bachmann warning that the Americorps program would eventually be turned into a regime of forced re-education for American youth, to Beck’s meanderings about Obama creating FEMA-run concentration camps to warehouse conservative dissidents, to Norris and Beck stirring up talk of secessionist movements. And a lot of people are having fun with this, because, well, it’s funny. It’s like a Farrelly Brothers version of right-wing political agitation. But it’s also kind of sad.

After all, the reason the winger crowd can’t find a way to be coherently angry right now is because this country has no healthy avenues for genuine populist outrage. It never has. The setup always goes the other way: when the excesses of business interests and their political proteges in Washington leave the regular guy broke and screwed, the response is always for the lower and middle classes to split down the middle and find reasons to get pissed off not at their greedy bosses but at each other. That’s why even people like Beck’s audience, who I’d wager are mostly lower-income people, can’t imagine themselves protesting against the Wall Street barons who in actuality are the ones who ****** them over. Beck pointedly compared the AIG protesters to Bolsheviks: “[The Communists] basically said ‘Eat the rich, they did this to you, get ‘em, kill ‘em!’” He then said the AIG and G20 protesters were identical: “It’s a different style, but the sentiments are exactly the same: Find ‘em, get ‘em, kill ‘em!’” Beck has an audience that’s been trained that the rich are not appropriate targets for anger, unless of course they’re Hollywood liberals, or George Soros, or in some other way linked to some acceptable class of villain, to liberals, immigrants, atheists, etc. — Ted Turner, say, married to Jane Fonda.

But actual rich people can’t ever be the target. It’s a classic peasant mentality: going into fits of groveling and bowing whenever the master’s carriage rides by, then fuming against the Turks in Crimea or the Jews in the Pale or whoever after spending fifteen hard hours in the fields. You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your ****. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. When you get frisky, he sticks a big cross in the middle of your village, and you spend the rest of your life praying to it with big googly eyes. Or he puts out newspapers full of innuendo about this or that faraway group and you immediately salute and rush off to join the hate squad. A good peasant is loyal, simpleminded, and full of misdirected anger. And that’s what we’ve got now, a lot of misdirected anger searching around for a non-target to mis-punish… can’t be mad at AIG, can’t be mad at Citi or Goldman Sachs. The real villains have to be the anti-AIG protesters! After all, those people earned those bonuses! If ever there was a textbook case of peasant thinking, it’s struggling middle-class Americans burned up in defense of taxpayer-funded bonuses to millionaires. It’s really weird stuff. And bound to get weirder, I imagine, as this crisis gets worse and more complicated.

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/04/...mentality/
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 11:50 AM by Artifice.)
05-12-2009 11:28 AM
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GrayBeard Offline
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RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
Please tell me you didn't come up with that on your own.
05-12-2009 11:41 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #3
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
05-12-2009 11:41 AM
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GrayBeard Offline
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RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 11:41 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Nice attribution.

So either he is the author of that blog, or he just committed plagiarism. Either way it was an ignorant piece of writing.
05-12-2009 11:46 AM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #5
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
LOL... Oh the indignation Greybeard!!

It's a damn good thing you get so upset at the dozens of WND, etc blog entries that SMN SOAF and the other locksteps repost here. Oh wait... You've never bitched about them.

I was about to post the link but I got a business call. It's a humorous take that hits decidedly close to the mark.

Quote:If ever there was a textbook case of peasant thinking, it’s struggling middle-class Americans burned up in defense of taxpayer-funded bonuses to millionaires.

Not just in reference to that particular example, but that is the type of thinking that absolutely dominates this board.

Quote:This new Holy Trinity of right-wing basket cases has been pushing all sorts of crazy hallucinations of late, from Bachmann warning that the Americorps program would eventually be turned into a regime of forced re-education for American youth, to Beck’s meanderings about Obama creating FEMA-run concentration camps to warehouse conservative dissidents, to Norris and Beck stirring up talk of secessionist movements. And a lot of people are having fun with this, because, well, it’s funny. It’s like a Farrelly Brothers version of right-wing political agitation. But it’s also kind of sad.

Totally agree.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 11:52 AM by Artifice.)
05-12-2009 11:49 AM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
Quote:You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your ****. Whatever the master does, you’re on board.

This applies even more so to the government worshipping left-wingers.

Businessmen have no control over monetary policy, taxes, laws, etc. Politicians, unfortunately, do.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 01:43 PM by BlazerFan11.)
05-12-2009 01:42 PM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 01:42 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Quote:You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your ****. Whatever the master does, you’re on board.

This applies even more so to the government worshipping left-wingers.

Businessmen have no control over monetary policy, taxes, laws, etc. Politicians, unfortunately, do.
03-lmfao What world do you live in?
05-12-2009 02:03 PM
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Post: #8
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 02:03 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(05-12-2009 01:42 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Quote:You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and taking your ****. Whatever the master does, you’re on board.

This applies even more so to the government worshipping left-wingers.

Businessmen have no control over monetary policy, taxes, laws, etc. Politicians, unfortunately, do.
03-lmfao What world do you live in?

No more control than unions, ACORN, or any other special interest group.

Now, you were saying? They don't make policy.
05-12-2009 02:04 PM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
The only "control" businessmen have is when they are in bed with politicians, and even then they can only influence as much as the politicians will let them. It is ultimately up to them.
05-12-2009 02:44 PM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #10
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 01:42 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  Businessmen have no control over monetary policy, taxes, laws, etc. Politicians, unfortunately, do.

I don't believe this. GovCo has been for sale (to big business and a few wealthy special interest groups) for a long time. The White House has had a for sale in the front lawn for most if not all of my life.

(05-12-2009 02:44 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  The only "control" businessmen have is when they are in bed with politicians, and even then they can only influence as much as the politicians will let them. It is ultimately up to them.

It seems remedial to mention that these same people fund the election campaigns of politicians...

Viva Buckley v Valeo, I guess.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 02:53 PM by Artifice.)
05-12-2009 02:48 PM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
That doesn't mean politicians are slaves to businessmen, and it doesn't mean that just because one contributes to a campaign that they are trying to exert their will on America. This article is stupid and hypocritical in that it mocks those who demonize government but not big business, while demonizing big business and giving gov't a free pass. After all, it is politicians who write the checks. Heck, some "bailout" recipients have tried to refund the money, but were refused by Obama & co., showing that it was nothing but a power grab by the politicians to begin with.
05-12-2009 03:17 PM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 03:17 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  That doesn't mean politicians are slaves to businessmen, and it doesn't mean that just because one contributes to a campaign that they are trying to exert their will on America. This article is stupid and hypocritical in that it mocks those who demonize government but not big business, while demonizing big business and giving gov't a free pass. After all, it is politicians who write the checks. Heck, some "bailout" recipients have tried to refund the money, but were refused by Obama & co., showing that it was nothing but a power grab by the politicians to begin with.

The article is one sided because it is the other side of the ridiculous discussion that is going on in the ranks of the Republican faithful these days. I know, I see the tinfoil hat stuff everyday thanks to forwarded emails and feedback from the latest conspiracy theory floated by someone like Glenn Beck.

These guys are still pushing fear instead of solutions. The comedy comes in how far they'll go and how quick it is lapped up by the masses as gospel.

As for the last comment - I have some very strong concerns about this TARP business from start to finish. But that characterization is incorrect. The banks were not allowed to return the money because they couldnt prove their necessary capital ratios over the periods forecast. The Stress Test, leaving criticisms of how lenient it was alone, showed that many couldn't return it, and in fact needed more.

BofA has conjured up an ambitious plan to fund their way out of it and pay it back. If it works, then good for their employees/sharholders.

Doesn't change the fact that many of the people that got absolutely robbed blind in this banking fiasco are very vocally going to bat for the people/interests that ripped them off. I have family members who have had their 401ks decimated, and they blame Obama because some nutjob told them to. It's ridiculous.
05-12-2009 03:26 PM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
Artifice Wrote:As for the last comment - I have some very strong concerns about this TARP business from start to finish. But that characterization is incorrect. The banks were not allowed to return the money because they couldnt prove their necessary capital ratios over the periods forecast. The Stress Test, leaving criticisms of how lenient it was alone, showed that many couldn't return it, and in fact needed more.

Who is Obama, who (as I frequently like to point out) has ZERO education or experience in the field, to tell bank execs how to run their company?

How would you like it if you tried to pay off your car early, and the lender (perhaps the same institution that you bank with) refused and said "Sorry, but we reviewed your account information, and we don't think you are really in a position to do that right now"?

Artifice Wrote:I have family members who have had their 401ks decimated, and they blame Obama because some nutjob told them to. It's ridiculous.

You're right. Instead, they should blame Bush, because Obama told them to, like so many others.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 03:51 PM by BlazerFan11.)
05-12-2009 03:43 PM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 03:43 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Artifice Wrote:As for the last comment - I have some very strong concerns about this TARP business from start to finish. But that characterization is incorrect. The banks were not allowed to return the money because they couldnt prove their necessary capital ratios over the periods forecast. The Stress Test, leaving criticisms of how lenient it was alone, showed that many couldn't return it, and in fact needed more.

Who is Obama, who (as I frequently like to point out) has ZERO education or experience in the field, to tell bank execs how to run their company?

Well, other than the fact that the educated people on that task, and not Obama, are making that call, that's a great point.

Quote:How would you like it if you tried to pay off your car early, and the lender (perhaps the same institution that you bank with) refused and said "Sorry, but we reviewed your account information, and we don't think you are really in a position to do that right now"?

I am not a bank. I am a consumer. There is a big difference.

Quote:
Artifice Wrote:I have family members who have had their 401ks decimated, and they blame Obama because some nutjob told them to. It's ridiculous.

You're right. Instead, they should blame Bush, because Obama told them to, like so many others.

... or, they could do what the article says and blame the people that robbed the system, and the deregulation and lax regulation that allowed it to occur. That's kind of the point.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2009 04:05 PM by Artifice.)
05-12-2009 04:04 PM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 04:04 PM)Artifice Wrote:  
(05-12-2009 03:43 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Artifice Wrote:As for the last comment - I have some very strong concerns about this TARP business from start to finish. But that characterization is incorrect. The banks were not allowed to return the money because they couldnt prove their necessary capital ratios over the periods forecast. The Stress Test, leaving criticisms of how lenient it was alone, showed that many couldn't return it, and in fact needed more.

Who is Obama, who (as I frequently like to point out) has ZERO education or experience in the field, to tell bank execs how to run their company?

Well, other than the fact that the educated people on that task, and not Obama, are making that call, that's a great point.

Oh, that's right, it's people like Tim Geithner, who can't figure out TurboTax. That's reassuring. But, yes, all bailouts come with strings attached, so in a way, Obama is telling them how to run things.

Artifice Wrote:
Quote:How would you like it if you tried to pay off your car early, and the lender (perhaps the same institution that you bank with) refused and said "Sorry, but we reviewed your account information, and we don't think you are really in a position to do that right now"?

I am not a bank. I am a consumer. There is a big difference.

No, in this scenario, you are the borrower and the bank is the lender. Just like with the bailout, the bank is the borrower and the U.S. Treasury is the lender.

Artifice Wrote:
Quote:
Artifice Wrote:I have family members who have had their 401ks decimated, and they blame Obama because some nutjob told them to. It's ridiculous.

You're right. Instead, they should blame Bush, because Obama told them to, like so many others.

... or, they could do what the article says and blame the people that robbed the system, and the deregulation and lax regulation that allowed it to occur. That's kind of the point.

No it isn't, because deregulation had nothing to do with this, and the only reason you think so is because the liberal media has told you that, which makes you just as mindless as the people that are being mocked in this article. The U.S. gov't making banks give out loans to people who would not be able to pay it back in order to "help" the lower class is the culprit you are looking for.
05-12-2009 04:15 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 04:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
(05-12-2009 04:04 PM)Artifice Wrote:  
(05-12-2009 03:43 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Artifice Wrote:As for the last comment - I have some very strong concerns about this TARP business from start to finish. But that characterization is incorrect. The banks were not allowed to return the money because they couldnt prove their necessary capital ratios over the periods forecast. The Stress Test, leaving criticisms of how lenient it was alone, showed that many couldn't return it, and in fact needed more.

Who is Obama, who (as I frequently like to point out) has ZERO education or experience in the field, to tell bank execs how to run their company?

Well, other than the fact that the educated people on that task, and not Obama, are making that call, that's a great point.

Oh, that's right, it's people like Tim Geithner, who can't figure out TurboTax. That's reassuring. But, yes, all bailouts come with strings attached, so in a way, Obama is telling them how to run things.

Artifice Wrote:
Quote:How would you like it if you tried to pay off your car early, and the lender (perhaps the same institution that you bank with) refused and said "Sorry, but we reviewed your account information, and we don't think you are really in a position to do that right now"?

I am not a bank. I am a consumer. There is a big difference.

No, in this scenario, you are the borrower and the bank is the lender. Just like with the bailout, the bank is the borrower and the U.S. Treasury is the lender.

Artifice Wrote:
Quote:
Artifice Wrote:I have family members who have had their 401ks decimated, and they blame Obama because some nutjob told them to. It's ridiculous.

You're right. Instead, they should blame Bush, because Obama told them to, like so many others.

... or, they could do what the article says and blame the people that robbed the system, and the deregulation and lax regulation that allowed it to occur. That's kind of the point.

No it isn't, because deregulation had nothing to do with this, and the only reason you think so is because the liberal media has told you that, which makes you just as mindless as the people that are being mocked in this article. The U.S. gov't making banks give out loans to people who would not be able to pay it back in order to "help" the lower class is the culprit you are looking for.

Yes...What was it called...Equal Opportunity Lending... It worked great during the building bubble. If a home was foreclosed on, the bank could sell it and get their money out of it; however, when the market turned the owners were all upside down. They had financed 100% of the value of the home and in many cases were paying interest only for 5 years with a balloon payment due after 5.
05-12-2009 04:25 PM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
Once again, the tinfoil hat set like Blazerfan11 is way off base:

Quote:Banks that are ready to repay government bailout money are finding it's not as simple as writing a check to the Treasury.

So far, no large U.S. bank has returned money received from the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP.

Yesterday, several large banks, including Virginia-based Capital One Financial Corp. and BB&T, a North Carolina-based bank with branches in the Richmond area, said they were raising capital to repay TARP.

BB&T CEO Kelly King said the timing of the repayment is "really in the hands of the regulators and the Treasury. All we can do is apply and meet the conditions, which we believe we have."

Last week, JPMorgan Chase & Co. CEO Jamie Dimon said he wants to repay TARP, but "the rules aren't clarified."

E. Joseph Face Jr., banking commissioner for Virginia, said he is not surprised that some banks want to repay the TARP funds.

"They are concerned about the government strings that may be attached," he said. "It's difficult to operate a business in uncertain times. [The TARP money] creates even more uncertainty."

To repay TARP money, the companies must meet three requirements.

First, they must raise long-term debt in the private markets without the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. guaranteeing it. Second, they must agree to prices for the warrants the government received in return for the original loan. A warrant is the right to buy a stock at a certain price. Last, they must be deemed "well-capitalized" by regulators and the Treasury -- a qualification that remains fuzzy.


The reason for the rules? The last thing U.S. officials want is for a bank to return their money, only to ask for more later. After Fannie Mae's warning last week that it needs an extra $19 billion from the government after receiving $15 billion in March, it's clear the financial crisis is not over.

"Regulators need to be very careful on their own credibility," said Paul Miller, a bank analyst with Friedman, Billings, Ramsey & Co. "They've got to be very careful that they don't give a seal of approval to a system that is not stable yet. There are a lot of other shoes that could drop in this economy."

Pat Fishe, a finance professor at University of Richmond, said banks took the money because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time to reassure depositors that they had sufficient funds. "It looked good initially. But then the rules changed. And the environment to make money became very favorable with low interest rates."

Some banks want to get out now before their shareholders experience more dilution, with the government owning preferred shares in their companies and common shares being worth less, Fishe said.

Also, the government started getting into their business and interfering with operational decisions, Fishe said. The government didn't like what they were paying their executives. It wanted them to make more loans, while the banks were trying to manage their portfolios and make prudent loans. "The banks are saying, 'Oh boy, this is more than we bargained for.'"

Several banks have paid back TARP, but the rules were different because they were small, said Standard & Poor's financial institutions analyst Scott Sprinzen. "They weren't institutions viewed as systemically important."

Paying back federal funds has pros and cons for all involved: the government, the banks, stockholders and taxpayers.

For many banks, TARP has given them capital they need to stay operational. One factor holding banks back from returning TARP is that they've already lent some of the money, said Scott Talbott of the Financial Services Roundtable, which represents large financial firms.

A negative for banks, though, is that the bailout program has given lawmakers the ability to restrict compensation. As a result, banks say they are having a hard time keeping top employees on their payrolls. Executives also contend that holding TARP money has become a sign of weakness to the public and to investors. Another pitfall: The banks must pay a 5 percent dividend on the government's investment.

For the government, getting taxpayer money back from healthier banks would be a strong sign to the American public that the financial system is healing. It also could help the Treasury avoid having to go back to Congress for additional funding. At around $110 billion, down from $700 billion, "the TARP fund is running low, and this would be one way to see it partly replenished," Sprinzen said.

And that comment about "Well Capitalized" being "fuzzy" is unfounded. The FDIC hasn't changed their definition in at least the last 5 years. Straight from their website:

Quote:Capital Group Descriptions

"Well Capitalized." Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio equal to or greater than 10 percent, and Tier 1 Risk-Based Capital Ratio equal to or greater than 6 percent, and Tier 1 Leverage Capital Ratio equal to or greater than 5 percent.
05-13-2009 08:47 AM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
(05-12-2009 04:15 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  No, in this scenario, you are the borrower and the bank is the lender. Just like with the bailout, the bank is the borrower and the U.S. Treasury is the lender.

I dont turn around and lend out the money of depositors. I am not a bank. So, you're wrong again.

Quote:No it isn't, because deregulation had nothing to do with this, and the only reason you think so is because the liberal media has told you that

No, I know that because I have been covering the deregulation since a I wrote an article about the G-L-B act for my Business Law Journal and having watched it unfold professionally. But you just keep on proving the point of my original post. Thanks for providing a living example of the peasant mentality.
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2009 08:52 AM by Artifice.)
05-13-2009 08:50 AM
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Post: #19
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
Until now I didn't know anyone but Bill Maher thought Matt had anything worth listening to.
05-13-2009 09:11 AM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Posts: 12,228
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Post: #20
RE: The peasant mentality lives on in America
I didn't say you were a bank, Orifice. It was a simple borrower/lender comparison. That's it. I'm sorry you can't grasp it.

How exactly does that article disprove what I said? I said that the bailout money came with strings attached that the banks didn't want, so they tried to pay the money back, and were refused by the gov't. Did you actually read that article?
05-13-2009 09:14 AM
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