For all my many posts on education...QED.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42742

Quote:Examining an SAT-to-IQ conversion chart calculated from Mensa entrance criteria, a combined 854 indicates that the average IQ of those pursuing an education major is 91, nine points lower than the average IQ of 100. In other words, those who can't read teach whole language.

I don't understand what it is that some people have against teachers. Is it a new profession or something?

(04-16-2009 12:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't understand what it is that some people have against teachers.

Do you have kids?

Nope. But I've had teachers myself. I also come from a small family of teachers.

Torch: Interesting timing. Just had conferences for both my kids today. We've been blessed with awesome teachers. We were especially concerned with Catie, given the natural delay to be found with kids from her situation, but they've really done some greaet work getting her up to speed. And Noah's teachers have impressed me with their ability to challenge him.

So I get the whole teacher-bashing thing. But like most stereotypes, it's a broad generalization.

(04-16-2009 02:46 PM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  Torch: Interesting timing. Just had conferences for both my kids today. We've been blessed with awesome teachers. We were especially concerned with Catie, given the natural delay to be found with kids from her situation, but they've really done some greaet work getting her up to speed. And Noah's teachers have impressed me with their ability to challenge him.

So I get the whole teacher-bashing thing. But like most stereotypes, it's a broad generalization.

Fair enough.

I wouldn't be such supporter of Lima Shawnee if I didn't have good teachers. Certainly my math and science teachers were well above the mean IQ...in fact most teachers in all subjects were good.

However, that was 2-3 decades ago, and a conservative school district, in a conservative county.

I have no doubt there are still excellent teachers around. But, my observation is that they are few and far between. Often clustered at good schools, b/c by definition good schools foster a healthy environment for them.

And I fully concede that 'IQ' is a questionable metric. But, the attitude that, "Educators are experts and we should defer to them" should be challenged wholeheartedly. It is flawed, yet has been pushed in the US for nigh on a century.

How far does your observation span?

(04-16-2009 03:07 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  How far does your observation span?

I've lived in 7 states since turning 21. I've lived in 3 counties in MD. 3 cities in OH. 2 cities in AZ. I have friends and acquaintances who teach art, chemistry, math, physics and English in schools in these various states. I listened to a friend who discussed what his job was at the Dept of Education and what outcome-based education really means to them. I've read Jay Matthews' columns. I've read John Gatto's articles. I've read James Dobson's books. I've read Scientific American. I've read New Scientist. I've followed the failed school trends in the nation's capital, Baltimore, MD and watched what works in Bluffton, Ohio. I've evaluated scads of materials in all subjects, working to put together our kids' curricula.

And oh yeah, I went to school too. Want me to recount my 9th grade English reading list? 10th grade? How about me recounting Mr. M's questionable assumptions in my 12th grade Econ class? Mr. E's mistakes in basic thermo in my 10th grade chemistry class? (BTW, those guys were good teachers, and they were right way more than they were wrong.) Or how I wish I had challenged Mrs G's comments on haggling when we were reading Uris' Exodus.

ever read about logos school in Moscow, Idaho?

I don't agree with Wilson on everything, but his classical education stuff is interesting

(04-16-2009 03:31 PM)GGniner Wrote:  ever read about logos school in Moscow, Idaho?

I don't agree with Wilson on everything, but his classical education stuff is interesting

Yes, I have, and in many ways I do agree w/ his approach. It might have been him that me pointed to Dorothy Sayers article on the Trivium.
But I really, really think Douglas Wilson is a dangerous kook. He contributed to a periodical entitled Agenda Credenda which made its way to a Christian bookstore where I volunteered. Despite my skepticism about his questionable interpretations (religious, not educational) I tried to consider what he wrote, but every time I followed some of his steps, it turned into disaster. Somewhat more recently, I read a religiousarticle by him and found him to be quite obtuse, I suspect b/c ultimately he was hiding some really wacko conclusions. I still don't know why RC Sproul likes the guy.

he's good on some things, his political views are sophmoric and the fact he doesn't have any more common sense than that is something else

they consider themselves, "Christian Libertarians"

on Google books, they have a copy of his book: Fidelity

read through that one on Oral Sex in the Bible, Porn, etc....its kinda a trip given modern sensibilities on the subjects.

btw, whad did you read of his you are referring to? I'd like to investigate it. I have my own reservations, paticularly from the practical side of things.

I think I posted once here an article of his about how American beer is femnized.


Recently he has engaged Christopher Hitchens quite a bit in debate. A documentary is coming out soon called "Collision"



"Is Christianity Good for the World"

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Good little story about I.Q. .....

I was once in an 8 & 1/2 Hour Legal Deposition with about 12 of the "Best Legal Minds" a few Hundred Billion Dollar Corporations had to offer (two of the Interest at the table represented Two Railroads - - does that tell ya how deep the pockets ran of my enemy ???)

So we are going along and I am really sick and tired of their stupid mind games and gray area innuendo and tick the line accusations against me and then they asked this really pointed Question of me ...

My SNIDE answer was: " ... well there really isn't a lot of Members of Mensa around here to choose from ...

I totally startled them and I could not understand why ....

We broke for lunch a little while later and when we came back and began Under Oath again, they started accusing me of being a Member of Mensa - - I laughed at it the first couple of times, then I got pissed off and pretty much cussed them out for all intensive purposes.

I found out at the end of the Deposition, that my Wife overheard them talking when they returned from lunch, that they had NEVER HEARD the Term Mensa before today and they now knew I was a Member and playing them - - they all had spent their entire Lunch Break at the Library looking up Mensa !!!!!!!!!!

At least 300 Combined Years of the Best Legal Talent that '3' Corporations and '2' Railroads could stick in my face and they Had Never Heard of Mensa and now knew I was a Card Carrying Member .....

Don't even get me started about I.Q. and how few have any at all to work from .....

.

(04-16-2009 12:35 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-16-2009 12:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I don't understand what it is that some people have against teachers.

Do you have kids?

I have to say that I understand fully the stereotype of todays teachers. My mother taught 31 years and I she will tell you that there was a steady drop in quality teachers entering the workplace starting in the 80's. Lowering of standards by school systems and homogeneous mixing of classes led directly to this problem. My mother said it over and over..."We are being expected to teach to the lowest common denominator...I've got 1/2 the class that has no idea what in the hell I am talking about. Just what do I do? Teach to the best students...or those that are so far behind? Either way...The kids suffer. What we see now in the public schools is a result of this type of homogeneous class mixing.

I have to say that I had mostly good teachers in school in the 70s. My daughter graduated HS in 2006....Her opinion was that she had mostly poor teachers. My daughter was lucky that she had my mother to give her a great start at home in the summers and my wife and I did everything but kill her ass to make her study and learn. Unfortunately...the majority of kids do not have this luxury or family commitment. They are stuck in the grasp of the state.

If I had to do it over again...I would quit my job if necessary to homeschool my kid. I would not let another child of mine be kidnapped and held hostage in these horrid government indoctrination centers.

I graduated at the same time she did...oh yeah I'm young. I also graduated from the same state and I've probably had some of the same experiences as she did. A lot of teachers are good, but are bound by the rules of the state, and some are terrible. I had my fair mix of the two.

(04-16-2009 05:05 PM)Tripster Wrote:  At least 300 Combined Years of the Best Legal Talent that '3' Corporations and '2' Railroads could stick in my face and they Had Never Heard of Mensa and now knew I was a Card Carrying Member .....

There you go. You ought to change your catch phrase to "Team Mensa"

I graduated HS in 2004 and yes there were a few bad apples but overall the teachers I had were stellar. I will agree the problem is teaching to the lowest common denominator. AP classes are helping to fix that, however I feel there should be "honors classes" in HS like there are in college. Do some extra above and beyond stuff and get more credit for it. I remember finishing government and history tests in 5 min (usually scoring 95% or better). Boy do I miss multiple choice. If students are finishing tests that quick, the stuff is too easy and that student needs to be challenged more.

Shoot, my mom had me do "enrichment" assignments at home. No matter what the subject was I had to do the homework assigned by the teachers and extra stuff to get ahead. At times I thought she was going to kill me for what i put her through. Even though I'm on my own now and completing classes in the Coast Guard after leaving ECU, she still calls me about homework.

(04-17-2009 01:34 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Shoot, my mom had me do "enrichment" assignments at home. No matter what the subject was I had to do the homework assigned by the teachers and extra stuff to get ahead. At times I thought she was going to kill me for what i put her through. Even though I'm on my own now and completing classes in the Coast Guard after leaving ECU, she still calls me about homework.

Hehe,
She's still catching up on her grading?

nomad: Hello, nomad residence.

Mom: Hi son

nomad: Hi Mom!

Mom: Son, I was going over your homework from Oct 2002. Do you remember when you were supposed to show the relationship between the trigonometric and hyperbolic functions?

nomad: Uh, no.

Mom: Well, when you used the natural log idenity for sinh, and substituted that into the expression for

nomad: Uh Mom, I have to go. Gotta get on the ship for Coast Guard duty. Thanks for calling!

Mom: Be careful. And remember, you still need to correct the spelling on your 'To Kill a Mockingbird' essay.